Talk:Cary, North Carolina

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[edit] Transportation Plaigarized?

Is that transportation section ripped off from somewhere, or did someone actually feel it necessary to include "A network of sidewalks and a network of dirt, gravel, and paved trails, greenways, connects neighborhoods and parks in Cary, though most walking is recreational or for exercise rather than commuting or shopping." There's nothing noteworthy about having a network of sidewalks and dirt trails connecting places--that's what defines a city. The only explanation I can think of is that it was typed verbatim from a book that includes a "walking" section on every city and a formula for the sentence. Mrcolj 18:59, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

I just put the flag back after it had been removed some time ago, quite possibly by accident. If it needs to be removed again, please explain here.

[edit] C.A.R.Y.

I found this at Containment Area for Relocated Yankees:

"C.A.R.Y. or Cary is a tounge-in-cheek Backronym for the city of Cary, in North Carolina. It is so named for it's concentration of relocated Yankess."

I'm redirecting this here for now, feel free to revert, incorporate, demand deletion, etc. Alai 19:00, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you need a reference, National Geographic published an article on Cary about eight years ago and cited this backronym.

The following paragraph:

The town's reputation as a bedroom community for transplants from outside the South has led to natives joking that Cary is an acronym for "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees." [1] Some observers have noted this as Cary's crisis of identity, especially when compared with its neighbors in the Research Triangle. Chapel Hill has a reputation as a bastion of liberal academia, Durham as a blue-collar post-boom industrial city, and Raleigh as the state's center of arts and government, but Cary has yet to come into its own identity, despite or perhaps because of its meteoric rise in population.

was removed on 8 June 2005 by Rtphokie (talk · contribs) with the explanation "removed argumentative, non-factual content." On 24 June, the "C.A.R.Y." backronym got re-added as an "Interesting Fact" with no context to it whatsoever, and so it remains.

I'm putting the paragraph back. Wikipedia is about NPOV, not about removing "argumentative, non-factual content". If you want to claim that Cary is not a bedroom community, that it doesn't have a reputation for transplants, that observers haven't noted a crisis of identity, that Chapel Hill, Durham and Raleigh don't have well-formed identities, that Cary does have its own identity, or that its population hasn't risen meteorically, then add your arguments. But don't just zap a fact of its context because the context offends you. --TreyHarris 8 July 2005 15:52 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether the paragraph should stay or go but I think it has some problems: 1) "a bedroom community for transplants from outside the South" is unclear; 2) "Some observers have noted this as Cary's crisis of identity" Who exactly? This is a statement of opinion not fact, even though you're attributing it to "some observers."
How is "a bedroom community for transplants from outside the South" unclear? Cary was certainly a bedroom community for commuters to other parts of the Triangle through the 1980's and into the 1990's at least. And C.A.R.Y. makes no sense outside the context of "transplants from outside the South." Maybe you could elaborate on why you think this is unclear.
As to the second point, if you're saying there's no crisis of identity, then you should put down what Cary's well-understood identity is. At the time I wrote that sentence, I had [2] as a reference, which quoted the mayor of Cary using the term "crisis of identity", but the page has moved. Maybe someone else can find it. (p.s.--would you please sign your posts?) --TreyHarris 8 July 2005 19:59 (UTC)

I, for one, being from California, don't know your definition of South and don't know why that would be a bad thing... Mrcolj 18:59, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

The concentrated area for relocated Yankees reference needs to be removed, it's not factual. It is not encyclopedic any more than a blond joke is encyclopedic. It's cutesy and doesn't belong here. It's only purpose is "Cary bashing".

The history of this joke is that Cary's major growth occurred in the mid to late 80's when IBM relocated large portions of it's workforce from the New York headquarters to their new facility in Research Triangle Park. Many of those ""relocated yankees"" put down roots in Cary. The area has continued to grow and attract transplants but those transplants are far from being primarily from the North East part of the U.S., they come from and California, Canada in the case of the telecommunications companies, the UK in the case of the drug companies, and all engineering and scientific companies are seeing their employee populations from India and China increase.

Yes Cary is largely populated by transplants and this has affected perception of the community as well as it's growth patterns and policy over the years. These references need to stay. But the cutesy joke that puts that growth primarily from ""Yankees"" is innacurate and needs to be removed.

Rtphokie

Okay, we went through this six months ago. NPOV does not guarantee that everything written in an article will be inoffensive, merely that it is neutral as to taking a position on controversial points of view. The sentence reads, "The town's reputation as a bedroom community for transplants from outside the South has led to humorous backronyms for its name such as "Concentrated Area of Relocated Yankees" or "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees."" And it has a reference, which you can click on, to see that at least the latter humorous backronym does exist. So—are you claiming that the Money magazine article is incorrect, and actually this article invented the acronym? (An odd claim, since the Money article came first.) If not, then it's NPOV to state that the backronym exists.

You seem to misunderstand: the fact that people have used the backcronym is factual. Saying so is not the same as saying that the backronym itself is factual, and the article doesn't assert this. --TreyHarris 19:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Just because it was in Money magazine or National Geographic or whatever, does that make it worthy of being here in Wikipedia? What is the purpose of this article, to give a as complete of a sumarization as possible or to amuse readers?

I just dont think it belongs here. It's been removed before, by other users as well. Some think it belongs some dont. We need to step back and ask ourselves if it makes the article better or not. I say it doesn't add anything to the article since Cary's history and current state is well covered.

This ""backronym"" is sophomoric and makes this article worse, not better

Rtphokie

(I said this six months ago, and I'll say it again now. Please sign and date your comments, using --~~~~.)
No, being in Money or National Geographic does not automatically qualify a fact for inclusion in the Wikipedia. But what the citing of the backronym in both of those publications (and many others) does do is show that it is a notable fact, it isn't some sort of inane trivia, it is actually reflective of an actual state of being in the world. This fact has been very stable in the article, and contrary to your assertion, before today it has never been removed by anyone other than you (except in the context of a whole-article vandalism), and the only other removal today was by an anonymous IP coming from cisco.com. Check the page history. --TreyHarris 20:33, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

It does not show it is a notable fact. It's not a fact. It's a joke. It's not reflective of actual state of being anymore than a blonde joke or polish joke is reflective of actual state of being in the world. It's a joke, not a fact.

Major publications include cutesy little things like this. That doesn't make them fact nor does it automatically reflect on reality. It also doesn't necessarily reflect perception. This is an old joke that I haven't heard in years.

This doesn't add anything and it doesn't belong here. --~~~~.

Your "old joke" was in the paper today - Ruth Sheehan's column on name for the soccer team. I heard it last month in an IBM meeting. Definitely has stuck as part of Cary's history and "culture". -Jcbarr 01:08, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Strong vote to keep. You can't live in NC without hearing the containment area joke a thousand times. Those who wish to learn about Cary should learn how it is perceived.

The News and Observer dredging up a humourous name in a mean spirited column is not evidence that this kind of thing belongs in Wikipedia. There is quite a history between the N&O and Cary that isn't worth getting into here.

Should we go add some Polish jokes to Poland's entry? People thought those were true at one point too. Perhaps some jokes about San Francisco Hippies or Florida being known for it's geriatric residents? Where does it stop. I say it should stop right here.

--~~~~

[edit] Changes in "Culture"

I am a Cary resident, have been my entire life. I eliminated the piece about the American flag because it was completely taken out of context. There was a fireworks vendor who had between 10 and 15 flags flying from his stand, and Cary limits the amount to 7. Ridiculous, yes, but the user who wrote that paragraph misunderstood the reasoning and characterized Cary incorrectly. Also, "The man has not yet fired the cannon." is useless as well. Deleted.

No it's not; those of us living in the free world may find it odd that anyone cares about some crazy guy with a cannon in his yard, unless of course he was actually firing it.12.150.117.30 17:26, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safety ranking

Is it just me, or is the phrase "It is the only North Carolina municipality listed in the top 10 as well as the only southern city in the top 25" redundant/ill-phrased? If Cary is the only Southern city in the top 25, then it is also the only Southern city in the top 10, and by extension it follows that it's the only North Carolina city in the top 10.

[edit] Removal of CARY backronym explanation

I have never lived in Cary, though I lived somewhat near Cary for a few years, and before, during and after, I have from time to time come across the CARY backronym story in media such as A Prairie Home Companion and National Geographic. It is encyclopedic, and it is illustrative of one of Cary's cultural puzzles. Leave it in; "encyclopedic" does not equal "dry and boring". --TreyHarris 18:42, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sister city

Could we get an explanation for the whole sister city thing? 129.252.69.19 05:19, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Try either town twinning or Sister Cities International, Inc.. Dr. Cash 03:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ph.D.s per capita?

"Cary was listed in Money Magazine as one of the best places to live in the United States [3]. In addition to the low crime rate and close proximity to the Research Triangle and many local universities, Cary can also boast having the most Ph.D.s per capita in the U.S. for towns larger than 75,000 people."

I don't have time to do a lot of research, but from what I've heard from my professor, who lives in Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill has the most Ph.D.s per capita for cities larger than 75,000 in the US. I am not sure, I get more results from google for { "Ph.D.s per capita" "Chapel Hill"} than for { "Ph.D.s per capita" "Cary" }. I suspect they are both close to being number one.

  • Chapel Hill doesn't have 75,000 residents. -Jcbarr 11:35, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Can anyone provide a cite for this? This is a boast that I found several other cities making online as well.BCAttwood 13:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cary Academy vs. Cary High

I think that it should be made clear that current day Cary high was formally known Cary academy. The current day Cary Academy is unrelated. I suggest that a change be made to the following part, although i am not sure how important it is. It currently gives no conection between Cary High and former Cary Academy. I myself am unsure as the relation but i know that there are Cary high artifacts in the main loddy of Cary High.

Cary Academy (no relation to the current school of the same name) is considered to be the first public high school in North Carolina, having opened in 1896.

cooldudeav

[edit] Safest Cities Survey

I disagree with the inclusion of Cary being the 8th safest city as advertising. If you will notice, other cities on the list, like Brick, NJ, Irvine, California and others, include it on there pages. Even Charlotte, NC, listed 8th most dangerous, has its' ranking listed. To me, it seems a worth while thing to add and encyclopedic. - OPaul 06:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

My objection was based on two things: 1) The information was unsourced; 2) it read like advertising, not like an encyclopedial entry. For example, the older 2004 citation is sourced and is, should I say, more declarative. Perhaps update that to reflect 2006 rather than 2004. Actually, that would improve the article by simply making it current. Baccyak4H 14:47, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Update: I tried to look up an archived page to update 2004 -> 2006 safety survey info, but there was no ref to it. Baccyak4H 16:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Doritos Commercial

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed but one of the Doritos commercials featured during Superbowl XLI was filmed at Waverly Place in Cary. The first video here, I thought that would be a an interesting fact to put in, but if you don't want it in please explain why. Acidskater 01:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly I heard that Waverly Place is slated to be torn down. Apparently its design is "problematic" in that you can't get your car close enough to many of the stores, and thus has never been popular with retailers. Don't have a source for this though. Jpp42 10:47, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Waverly place has not been a successful shopping center for a long time (15+ years). The deign is too pedestrian friendly, and thus not as well suited for cars. The have also been problems deciding what sort of character the plaza should have, and what sort of stores should be in the plaza. Also, it doesn't help that there is a Wal-Mart across the street and a large mall that is less than ten minutes away. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.167.247.60 (talk) 20:57, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Wealthy neighborhood in exterior village Preston, Cary"

Is this really necessary for the first image describing Cary? Granted, Preston is a significantly wealthy region of Cary, but I think it's undoing to many who call Cary home to make the primary image of Cary a gazebo from Preston!. How about the crossroads in downtown Cary just past the train tracks? Cary is more than Preston, Nimur. We don't have to make a snide remark about Cary's wealth at every chance we get. 71.194.130.220 16:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, seems the same image is used below in the rural/developed comparison. It seems a good fit there, so another pict on top would seem best. Not that I have any... Baccyak4H (Yak!) 16:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I no longer live in Cary but while I did I hardly ever visited Preston, save when I played soccer at the Preston Soccer Park. There really is distinct difference between "West Cary" i.e. Preston and "East Cary" i.e Crossroads area down to 64... I'd say the line is somewhere around Harrison. Regardless, a gazebo in Preston doesn't say much about Cary. And it comes off as snide. 67.173.127.191 23:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
The photo of the gazebo was certainly not intended to be a "snide remark," but I agree that an alternative photo is suitable. If anyone can obtain a good photograph of some other "distinctively Cary" setting, please contribute. Nimur 04:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Added some photographs that are distinctly Cary. The renovated Page-Walker Hotel for the history section. The Cary Town Hall for the government section. The Cary Chamber of Commerce for the business section. HeavenlyHedgehog

[edit] Farmington Woods

The article claims that the planned urban development (PUD) of Farmington Woods was named after Farmington, MA, where a similar development was successful earlier. Unfortunately, there is no Farmington in Massachusetts (although Maine has one, a tiny village). It is likely that the developer made the common mistake of misremembering the name of Framingham, Massachusetts. Perhaps someone would like to contact Thomas F. Adams, Jr., the developer, and report on the actual circumstances behind the name. Snezzy 16:34, 10 October 2007 (UTC)