Talk:Cartoon Wars Part II

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Contents

[edit] Speculations

"It is speculated (but not confirmed) that the creators/writers for Family Guy will either be Scientologists, Catholics, Crab People, Saddam Hussein, the Super Adventure Club, Tom Cruise, Xenu, Darth Chef or another character/group portrayed recently in the series." By whom is it speculated? Bezo 04:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

What Bezo said. And how is it based on commercials for the show, its website and/or other advance publicity? And if I think Patrick Duffy is behind it all can I add him on the list too? And, finally, what's the point of speculation if you have a list longer then my arm? --Bahati 08:44, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Big Part Two

Twenty bucks says they show a Terrance and Phillip episode.
Yeah, I am half-expecting something completely out of left field, although that one was April 1st. Something having nothing to do with continuing the plotline from the last episode. Doregasm 00:34, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
You guy were half right... Ace ofspade 03:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I was actually convinced for a second that they were really going to pull that "...will not air tonight!" business. Jeff Silvers 03:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

You owe me $20

[edit] Muhammad image removed by Commedy Central?

Was the image of Muhammad really removed by Comedy Central?

Yes it was. How disappointing.

How do you know for sure? Couldn't it be just part of the whole free speech joke? Did Comedy Central actually release a statement saying this?

I was sorta wondering the same thing. Jeff Silvers 03:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Im guessing it could have gone either way. Either it was part of the joke or comedy central removed it. Someone please update this page when there is a statement or proof of either side. PrettyMuchBryce 03:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

My guess is that Comedy Central actually does have a policy now where it won't air images of Mohammed, but Parker and Stone knew that beforehand. They had the statement about how CC doesn't air the images immediately followed by the most vulgar cartoon with Jesus in it because of the irony of not being able to show someone handing a football helmet to someone else, but being able to show someone covered in shit. 04:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I personally doubt that Comedy Central censored the image over Matt and Trey's heads. Still, though, I've reworded the section so it states what happened, but doesn't promote a particular viewpoint on why it happened.Raymondluxuryacht 04:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I think not showing Muhammad is the point in the joke/idea of these two episodes - everyone expected to see him as if it actually mattered to these episodes' message in any way. Would this whole episode be OK if he was censored, and would it be outrageous if he was not...? On one side you have people disdaining Muhammad's depiction, on the other side you have people slobberig over such pictures. And you have people in the middle that basically don't care that much to start wars for it. --Abdull 14:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

- Yeah, I agree with the statement above. It was definitly a joke by Matt and Trey, I highly doubt Comedy Central censored it.

I'd like to believe it was Trey and Matt to, but it looks like it was actually Comedy Central's decision. --Mercury1 17:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Can someone say IRONY?Raymondluxuryacht 19:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

A torrent file seems to exist with an apparently uncencored version of this episode. ([1]).

The uncensored copy is FAKE FAKE FAKE! 2 things. First, take a close look at this screenshot and you can see the dodgy hack job some amateur has done inserting a SOUTH PARK STYLE (not fake Family Guy style) Mohammed into the scene. Second, if you download this version, you will find that there are no new frames of animation, only the ones before and after the white on black text with Mohammed spliced in badly. Edit: Oh yeah, and did I mention that the Comedy Central ident from the 'censored' original is STILL IN THE CORNER?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060413/ap_on_en_tv/tv_south_park_muhammad Here's the answer guys.

The fake uncensored copy just uses the mohammed from the Super Best Friends episode. Jaderaid 23:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I think someone should put something in the article that mentions the forged 'uncensored' copy. I think it's pretty easy to tell that it is fake because it's already been said that the episode was compiled as is before the airing. PrettyMuchBryce 18:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. Designbot

Whether or not Comedy Central Censored it will become 100% clear next week on November 10th when the Canadian release of Cartoon Wars part 2 is put out.

[edit] About how Bush was portrayed...

"This is an unusual depiction of the President, who is often satirized for his supposed simple-mindedness; here, Bush is shown as being clear in his speech and thought with the media being portrayed as anti-free speech and uninformed."

Um, but aren't Matt and Trey pro-Bush? So as unusual as it is, it makes sense they wouldn't make fun of him like most people do... (although part of me is surprised that they didn't anyways). Would it be a good idea to add that information to this fact?

They have never really said if they like him or not, but they have made fun of him in the past a fair bit (that's my bush). Maybe it just didn't fit into the plot.Jaderaid 06:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Neither Matt nor Trey has gone on record supporting Bush. Both are often assumed to be conservatives since the show seems to bash liberals so much, but neither publicly identifies himself as such. In fact, Parker is a registered Libertarian. The truth is that South Park's satire is more social in nature than political; making fun of specific political figures has never been their focus.Raymondluxuryacht 06:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I read an interview where they basically said it's not fun to make fun of Bush because everyone does it. Matt Stone said the only punk thing you can do anymore is walk into a party and yell out "Bush effin' rules!" (I don't feel like looking up the source on that right now.) WallyCuddeford 02:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was really surprised when it turned out that Bush knew what the First Amendment was. I doubt he does in real life.

Yes, I'm sure that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES has no idea what the First Amendment is. You may not support the President, but don't make foolish comments such as the one above.
Indeed. There's a huge difference between not knowing and not caring. WallyCuddeford 02:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


If you're not Bush I can't see how can you make such a statement with any degree of certainty. On the same note, sign your comments!
In my opinion, and experience, it's not much fun to make fun of someone when everybody else is doing it, and with plenty of material mind you. It would be in bad taste...--Bahati 16:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
He probably has at one time or another heard of the Bill of Rights, but obviously doesn't care. Faith-based agenda? Come on. That's just blatant disregard of the First Amendment. Hewn 10:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure South Park has lampooned both sides of the political spectrum on countless occations. People on either side tend to notice more when their side is attacked and gloss over the fact that the other side was, too. --Sean WI 04:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

On the subject of censorship, someone decided to unilaterally delete the portion dealing with the portrayal of President Bush. I don't know how that differs from any other form of censorship: imposing your views on eveybody else by deleting other people's hard work and comments. If you have a problem with something, bring it up on the discussion page. Free speech isn't about people just deleting stuff they don't like. And if you're going to do it, have the integrity to stand by your actions and put your handle to them. [User:Chesty95|Chesty95]] 04:14, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

THE WAY Bush is portrayed is satirical because, you would think that due to the controversy surrounding the Patriot Act, that they would depict Bush as being ignorant about the First Ammendment. Bush is often portrayed as an idiot and Trey and Matt like to go against the comedy grain, so to speak, so instead of going with the common way of making fun of him, they go 180 degrees in the opposite direction to depict him as the only intelligent person in the room. The joke is that it is ironic.Wanda5088 20:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

They probably didn't put in any "Bush is dumb" jokes because they were trying to be funny, and those jokes got old and gay 4 years ago. --Sean Gray 23:05, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, that hasn't stopped them from making fun of Al Gore. Hewn 10:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I just looked at that scene, and really I think its just an example of how Matt and Trey make fun of the larger issue as a whole. Look at Bush- he's cowering, worried, and constantly glancing from left to right, which is often how he appears in reality. The press, on the other hand, is portrayed as chewing into Bush rabidly, which they do. (And, being a liberal, I think they SHOULD.) This is an example of Matt and Trey showing how both sides of the argument create a stalemate. Bush is hardly portrayed as being strong and compitent in this situation, rather he's wormy and cowardly. I don't think Matt and Trey's portrayal of Bush has ever been positive: look at That's My Bush where he's a well meaning, incompotent doof or look at Mystery of the Urinal Duce where he's masterminding the transmission of subversive information to control the people who are revolting against him. Those are hardly favorable examples. Having gone through the South Park catalogue many times, I've found a great many examples of Matt and Trey being very liberal in their slant. Far more than I could mention here.  ;)
    • That's My Bush! was before everyone really made fun of him. The Mystery of the Urinal Deuce made fun of him to make fun of conspiracy theorists. Trey and Matt weren't saying that Bush is conniving or evil, but making fun of the fact that conspiracy theorists and liberals say he is. Even the I'm a Little Bit Country episode made fun of the anti-war people more than pro-war people, and when it did make fun of the pro-war side it was in a mocking fashion of the way liberals view them. The way they satirized the anti-war people seemed to be an honest attack. Even the episode where the Bush Administration thought (accurately, ironically) that Saddam had WMD's in Heaven saw Bush's advisors as the satirized ignorant ones, not the President himself. Personally, I believe Trey and Matt, like most sane libertarians and moderates, dislike the war and some of Bush's decisions, but aren't at his throat like liberals and crazy libertarians are. And as stated, they don't satirize the President directly because everyone else is, it's easy, and they don't want to be labeled as just another anti-everything-Bush-does show. Mac OS X 08:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
      • That's funny. Because as a liberal, anti-war fan of South Park, I interpreted these episodes in exactly the opposite sense that you did: look at those crazy rightwingers and their insane nonsensical destructive beliefs, but we can also see that there are idiots on both sides so there sure are people on the left who get into dumb positions too...--Drojem (talk) 06:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Summary of section: I believe Trey and Matt believe whatever I believe about Bush because that's what reasonable people believe, clearly. Their humor is so godlike and original that it transcends and incorporates whatever take anyone else has had upon the matter and vastly improves upon it. This enables them to see all sides of all arguments and to simultaneously see the absurdities inherent in every facet of every situation. But obviously when they make fun of people I disagree with it is because they are satirizing those crazy views. While when they make fun of things I agree with it is merely self-deprecating good humor (or even satirizing the crazy way crazy opponents of my beliefs foolishly make fun me). I will now proceed to cherry-pick from episodes and interpret them according to how I found them funny to prove my point. (Now, could someone please explain to me what the hell any of this rambling South-Park-fanboy-forum-chit-chat has to do with an NPOV Wikipedia article on the "Cartoon Wars II" episode?)--Drojem (talk) 06:07, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Missing cultural reference

The leadup to the Kyle and Cartman fight reminded me alot of the Matrix and Matrix Revolutions fight between Neo and Agent Smith.--The dez 07:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Julie, the woman in the network control center, resembles Glenn Close in Air Force One, doesn't she? --Bahati 11:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

  • I came to this page to say just that. I don't know about Star Trek, but what I got from that entire scene was a parody of Air Force One. I think it should be in the article. Mac OS X 08:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bart

Can someone explain how Kyle was able to convince Bart to help him?

Perhaps Bart is a malleable simp(son)leton? sorry.

===>Gay little speeches Kyle gave a gay little speech, like he always does. They always work on the people in South Park because they are reasonable human beings, except Cartman. Bart is also a reasonable human being, so it worked. We just didn't get to hear the gay little speech. -Justin (koavf), talk 13:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

On a simmilar note, isn't this the first time Mona Mashell's used her "boy" ("Izzy") voice for South Park, isn't it?--Conan-san 19:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


This is a stretch and a fine example of my nerdery, but did anyone else notice the "Isn't that like terrorism?"/"It's not like terrorism, it IS terrorism!" exchange fairly mirrored the "Isn't that practically stealing?"/"Practically!"/"It IS stealing!" bit from The Telltale Head- the exact episode Bart goes on to reference moments later. --L T Dangerous 23:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Good call Dangerous, I think thats worth putting in the article. --153.90.119.175 01:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Bart is lefty.where the scrip-girl was? Anselmocisneros 16:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fat Terrance

Terrance is quite obese. Any reasons for that? --Abdull 14:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Terrance's weight gain occurred in the episode Terrance and Phillip: Behind the Blow that aired in 2001. User:MarnetteD | Talk 16:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News story links

All the news sources in the External Links section link to the same story- the Associated Press story- just reprinted on different sites and given different headlines. Do we really need three links to the same story?Raymondluxuryacht 00:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I had put the 3 story links in. Noticed today that the AP story link that was put in instead (linked to www.newsvine.com) was dead and replaced it with the CNN link instead, that's likely to be more stable --Vivek 14:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
CNN link is now dead. Can we get that article anywhere else? Hewn 10:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The old newsvine version works, so I'll put that one back. --KGF0 ( T | C ) 10:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Tags on Reporters

In the scene where Bush is describing the so-called First Amendment with the reporters, two reporters are noticeably wearing name tags while the others aren't. One says "TCO" and the other is "LSX". What is this a reference to?Cory Kohn 03:26, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Searching on the internet provides no real clues. TCO could stand for a lot of things, the most common search result being "Total Cost of Ownership." LSX only returns as a media-file type. I'm assuming they may just be initials of people the show creators know. Orichalcon 15:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pull the Episode parody

There are two references that people made that this scenen is a parody of:

"The "Pull the episode" scene is also reminiscent of the FOX drama 24, and, particularly, the fifth season. Early on in the season, as in this scene, characters would constantly argue over critical decisions that were ultimately up to the President's call, and both Rupert Murdoch and President Charles Logan (early on in the season) were characterized as being highly indecisive figures that couldn't pull the trigger on anything that could have a major impact."

and

"The scene that shows the Fox president deciding whether or not to pull episode is a parody of a scene from Air Force One with Harrison Ford."

Although there are similarities, I don't think it's a parody of "Air Force One", I think it's just a parody of 24 and maybe an amalgamation of scenes like it. Any thoughts?

Maybe it had nothing to do with 24, but was just the original thinking the makes pride themselves in in this very episode. 84.139.4.74 13:04, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
On second thought, if that "Pull one episode, kill whole series"-part was a parody of anything, then it is about the removal of South Park's own episode "Trapped in the Closet" from syndication. 84.139.4.74 13:06, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: William Donahue

It is worth noting that, over the holidays, when asked if a future Jewish President should be expected to send Christmas cards (as opposed to the "Happy Holidays" cards that President Bush sent this year), Mr. Donahue said "absolutely".

Just wanted to share that. Chesty95 03:33, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] South Park and the Simpsons

Just something I'm curious about. Trey and Matt have both mentioned on several occasions that they are big fans of the Simpsons. Does anyone know if Matt Groening has ever publicly expressed any opinions on South Park?Raymondluxuryacht 03:50, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not aware of Matt Groening making any public comment, but a somewhat loving parody of the show appeared in one episode. Check this out: [2]. It's entirely possible it was done in response to the equally loving Simpsons Already Did It episode. Personallly, it's one of my favourite Simpsons moments, both for Bart mocking Simpsons fans by wondering "how do they keep (South Park) so fresh after 52 episodes?" and one of my all-time favourite lines, "Cartoon violence! Cartoon violence!". --L T Dangerous 14:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)



hi i'm too lazy to fix it but this is the FOURTH two-parter in south park, the missing one in the TRIVIA section being the professor chaos/simpsons already did it

That wasn't a two-parter. Those episodes were just linked together through a similar theme. The same could be said about the whole butters/tweak episodes in Season 6 as the boys' new friends. Orichalcon 08:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's that clear-cut. There WAS a cliffhanger ending to the Professor Chaos episode, and one of the two story lines of "Simpsons Already Did It" was a continuation from "Professor Chaos." I think it's as much of a two-parter as any of the others. Hewn 10:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

Near the beginning of the "Fox Refrences" sections i found this sentence:

"He, like Cartman, hates Family Guy, a reference to both the fact that The Simpsons creator Matt Groening shares Trey and Matt's dislike of Family Guy, as well as the fact that Family Guy is often accused of being a Simpsons ripoff."

This appears to be unfounded and not accurate at all. I read that Groening is on good terms with the Family Guy staff, but it is true that Stone and Parker have publicly stated they're dislike of Family Guy. --Willers 23:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Another possible vandalism under Real life Controversy: "Ironically, due to the pulling of "Trapped in the Closet," Mission: Impossible III may not have performed as well at the box office due to angry South Park fans boycotting it.". Need a source or some type of proof that would suggest that MI:3 did bad at the box office because of a soutpark fan boycott. -User:pallfy 21:37, 10 July 2006
Vandalism seems like a pretty strong accusation when people are probably just repeating rumors. Hewn 10:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this suppossed to be here?

'There may also be a relationship between the terrorists and actor and Celebrity-Scientologist Tom Cruise. Existing rumors point towards Cruise threatening Paramount Studios, the producing company behind Cruise's summer vehicle, Mission: Impossible III, with not doing any publicity for the film if the episode Trapped in the Closet were to air again. Paramount put pressure on Viacom which in turn owns Comedy Central to not air the episode. Thus, it can also be read that the comments about terrorism being fear based are inclusive of Cruise, using Paramount's fear of revenue loss if he were not to publicize the film, to get the episode pulled from airing rotation. Ironically, due to the pulling of "Trapped in the Closet," Mission: Impossible III may not have performed as well at the box office due to angry South Park fans boycotting it.'

Despite the fact that all of this is merely speculation... Why is it here?... it should be, maybe in the Tom Cruise article or the "Trapped in the closet" episode article. Only because this episode is about censorship, doesn't mean this article is about "South Park censored" or something like that. I am not moving or deleting anything, but I think this part doesn't belong here. Also I think the language in that pharagraph is way too rude (by stating that Tom Cruise may be linked to terrorists), at least, for wikipedia standards, so, it should be edited. Dhekranh 01:53, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotations

Why do these quotations keep appearing in this article? There's clearly a wikiquote box right next to the section where people are supposed to add quotes. I'm tired of removing these quotes from the main article. What will it take to get people to stop adding them and LOOK at the wikiquote box? Orichalcon 16:05, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Next Emmy?

I predict that, a year from now, we will be hearing about this episode being nominated for an Emmy as well.

[edit] Tom Cruise a terrorist?

I've removed this line. Even though Tom Cruise may be somewhat crazy, he certaintly isn't a terrorist since he hasn't ever used violence against Paramount. Also, the line fails both WP:OR and WP:V. --TBCTaLk?!? 00:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goofs

I fail to see how Osama Bin Laden dying and coming back to life is a goof. It happens regularly with characters like Kenny and Saddam Hussein. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.20.124.228 (talk) 12:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Duplicate picture

the picture at the bottom of the plot page (the comedy central one) is already at the top of the page. can someone replace the plot on with a different picture or maybe remove it altogether.