Talk:Carry Me Back to Old Virginny

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Herman Melville wrote in a work published in 1855 ("The Paradise of Bachelors and the Tartarus of Maids"), "I softly sing, 'Carry me back to old Virginny!'." Is he referring to a precursor of the 1880 tune by James Bland? See also "Ole Virginny" [1].

[edit] neutrality

Anyone who writes that "there was a deep affection between many former slaves and their owners" should come up with some concrete examples and unimpeachable citations. Otherwise, this comment strikes me as extremely biased and offensive. How many is "many former slaves"? Do we have proof of this? The line including the remark that slaves should had a connection "perhaps akin to the devotion a dog might feel for its master" is also very troublesome; I get the point that it's what the slaveowners supposedly wanted - but again, I think this is an assumption without any proof. Paepstein 13:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

    • The history of Virginia is replete with oral histories which indicate that long-term individual relationships sometimes grew as strong as family-type love despite the abomination which was the entire concept and culture of slavery. This was certainly not true in many other situations. We should keep in mind that the song was written in an era when many former slaves were struggling terribly just to feed families and survive under "freedom" which came without much else to help them join the economy and thrive (or even survive). Sure some former slaves must have missed what had felt more secure if they had lived under better conditions on a profitable plantation, notwithstanding their non-free status. (Practical matters versus philosophical). Finally, I also think the "dog" comment is offensive and serves no good purpose in this article. Vaoverland 15:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
    • I deleted the dog line, which isn't required to make the point of the paragraph. I also revised the lead at the top to reflect the fact that the song was written in a past era and is controversial in modern times. I think the article is fairly well-balanced, presenting the different perspectives. We cannot re-write history, and while it could have better references, I see no false statements. Vaoverland 16:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Controversial? I bet you are not even from Virginia. And if you say NOVA, that doesn't count. Don't worry about what doesn't matter to you. You're not black, so there is no reason for you to take offense from this beautiful song. Gobackupnorth 00:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV edit, and call for references

I agree with Vaoverland above that the article is basically well-balanced, but think it has got into a twist trying to describe slave-master relationships as "like a dog to its master" or like "Stockholm Syndrome", both of which are potentially rather offensive and in any case definitely qualify as POV. Speculative amateur psychology is definitely not the point of Wikipedia. I know what people are trying to say, but it isn't working: please let's stick to the facts.

I have slightly recast the Historical Context section as Controversy, illustrating both the "straightforward" interpretation of the song and the "alternative" interpretation, I hope without giving more weight to one or the other. There is really no need to emphasise things like "the fundamental wrongness of slavery", a phrase which I have removed. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and doesn't deal in right and wrong: the point of an encyclopedia is not to patronise readers with moral judgements, but to let them view the facts and make up their own minds. (For what it's worth, I think most readers will be perfectly capable of working out that slavery is bad, especially if they follow the links.)

The article could greatly benefit from a reference to some authoritative source (eg a politician or an academic, not some random blog) making the argument that the song may be understood as a satire; also on the point that black communities in the North enjoyed the song. -- TinaSparkle 17:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Negro" minstrel

Is there some significance to the songwriter being referred to as a "Negro," or would "African American" suffice? My concern is that "Negro" is mildly offensive, and if its entry is to be believed, even worse to some. I don't know how things work around here, so I'm just going to change it for the sake of good taste. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.86.63.34 (talk) 21:50, 7 May 2007 (UTC).