Talk:Caroline Island

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	Caroline Island is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 13, 2006.
Article milestones Date Process Result June 12, 2006 Peer review Reviewed June 13, 2006 Good article nominee Listed July 30, 2006 Featured article candidate Promoted Current Status: Featured article

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To-do list for Caroline Island:	edit · history · watch · refresh
Acquire an actual GFDL photo of the island - permission requested for [1], although it's presently included under fair use exemptions... From Nichalp: Line Island Expedition? context needed. What is it? Copyedit required. Phrases such as It should be noted that etc. crescent-shaped atoll the pic alongside does not show a very prominent crescent.

Seth, you did a great job putting this article—on a very remote part of the Pacific—together. I commend you - Marshman 04:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

"to have entered the year 2000" - the whole of UTC+14 entered year 2000 together; Caroline Island was the first to see dawn. EdC 03:59, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Make the conversions more precise.Dan 19:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind my above comment, I did it myself.Dan 19:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 backward trade winds 2 Good Job 3 Danger from sea level rise 4 International Date Line 5 Name change

[edit] backward trade winds

How do you have northwesterly trade winds? Trades blow from the northeast above the equator and southeast below. Either somebody's got their directions backwards or they're not talking about trades. KarlM 06:40, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Karl: You're right; Kepler and Kepler report that, although Caroline lies in "a region primarily influenced by southeast trades," meteorological records incidate that winds measured on the island tend to originate from the northeast. ([2], p. 31) I've updated the article. Thanks! - Seth Ilys 21:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Job

A good article, well done. I found much of it familiar as I used to live there.

[edit] Danger from sea level rise

The article currently ends with these statements: "As Caroline Island only extends six meters above sea level, it is in danger as sea levels rise. The Kiribati government estimates that the island may be reclaimed by the sea as soon as 2025, and the United Nations has rated Caroline Island as among those most in danger from sea level rise." These assertions are exaggerated and inaccurate. According to the sea level rise article, the sea level is increasing at a rate of three millimeters per year. If the rate remains constant, Caroline Island will be "reclaimed by the sea" in two thousand years. The Kiribati government's claim that this will happen by 2025 is not supported by the data.

I realize that global warming and associated topics are controversial, but this particular point strikes me as a question of simple arithmetic. Wikipedia should not be presenting these claims as fact if the underlying math is fundamentally wrong. Pat Berry 17:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Pat: You're right; the best estimates of sea level rise don't have Caroline dissapearing entirely underneath the sea within the next 20 years; however, both of those statements are sourced and are technically correct. However, they may be misleading. One of the dangers of even a small sea level rise is that it can have a profound impact upon island vegetation; a one meter rise could easily render Caroline Atoll barren, which may well be what the Kiribati government and the UN are referring to. I'll try to add additional clarifying statements as to what "reclaimed by the sea" may actually mean. Thanks! -- Seth Ilys 19:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] International Date Line

Robert Brockway, in this diff, purported to remove an inaccuracy from the header of this article. However, the article never claimed that "Caroline Island [was the] land closest to the International Date Line (outside of Antartica) on the western side," merely that Caroline was the "easternmost land west of the Date Line." I've restored the original text, which made no claims about Caroline's closeness to the IDL; however, I'd be amenable to discussing improvements to the text that explain the situation more clearly. - Seth Ilys 19:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Before the article reached the main page, it made no comment about Caroline's closeness to the Date Line; apparently some added this incorrect fact to the page in an attempt to "clarify" things; however, the article history seems to be slightly FUBAR'd, so I can't figure out who. Regardless, I've restored the original text to both the main page and the article. Ah, the perils of being featured on the main page! :) -- Seth Ilys 20:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Seth. I see your point (the image on my talk page was helpful thanks). Having said that I think the article is using terrible wording. I bet I was not the only person to misunderstand this point. In any case it is worth mentioning (as I did in my version) that Caroline Island is in GMT+14. Robert Brockway 23:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Let's work on improving the wording. The time zone is mentioned later on in the article; I don't believe it's appropriate to include that in the opening section. I believe the section is question is:

The atoll is best known for its role in celebrations surrounding the arrival of the year 2000 — a 1995 realignment of the International Date Line made Caroline Island the easternmost land west of the Date Line and therefore one of the first points of land on Earth (outside Antarctica) to see sunrise on 1 January 2000.

How would you phrase that, while maintaining what I see as the two main points of that part of the summary: Caroline Island is at a time-zone extremity (the easternmost point of land), and was therefore notable around Y2K. -- Seth Ilys 00:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

I have changed the name of the article to Caroline Atoll because that is the more common name of the article. Caroline Island will be redirected to that page. --GoOdCoNtEnT 22:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

How did you judge that "Caroline Atoll" was the "more common name"? In building the article, I encountered "Caroline Island," "Caroline Atoll," and "Millennium Island" with (by my assessment) roughly equal frequency. My selection was somewhat arbtirary, but based on my impression that the name "Caroline Island" has been in use for the longest period of time. -- Seth Ilys 22:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)