Talk:Carob tree

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Contents

[edit] Conflict?

Okay, so carob is simultaneously a laxative AND a diarrhea corrective? Am I a biology idiot, or are these in conflict? 96.10.70.66 02:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Some people in northern India claim Rhino horn is a natural aphrodisiac. I'm assuming these are merely claims based on tradition (of which carob has a long history). I don't know whether these claims are true (i.e. whether Egyptians and others actually made them), but the article should probably distinguish between cultural uses of carob and scientific/experimentally verified information. Good point though. LostCause 07:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I contacted User talk:Deb#Carob who added the original claim. Samfreed 08:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
She says that she must have copied it from somewhere but has no reference or knowledge to this effect. I am removing the "diarrhea corrective" thing. Samfreed 15:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I was told by an herbologist at Wild Oats that carob is indead a diarrhea corrective, due to its effectiveness as a thickening agent. -- Logotu 18:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chocolate?

Can anybody write on the use of carob as an alternative to chocolate? wjl Mar 27, 05

Does carob taste just like chocolate, or does it just taste similar? I've taste carob before and I noticed that it tasted slightly different from chocolate. Scorpionman 00:37, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Personally I think it tastes more like syrupy banana than chocolate, in its unprocessed form. illspirit|talk 11:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

There is not reason to even state carob tastes ANYTHING like chocolate it does NOT. It is not even the same color. It's got a similar dark color and a similar texture but that is all. The taste is NOT close to chocolate and would never be confused with chocolate in any form. 4.142.126.213 22:30, 27 March 2007 (UTC)Nick

Fixed that, to what I consider an appropriate degree. BTW, you may want to get yourself an account on wikipedia and edit stuff yourself. Just read up a bit about the wikipedia first!Samfreed 23:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Carob is definitely an alternative to chocolate. It does has a different taste (often more bitter), but carob is used in a lot of products where chocolate isn't wanted. They also have "carob chips" and "carob powder", used for baking. -- MacAddct1984 19:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Carob is used for diabetic chocolate, IIRC. illspirit|talk 02:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misc

What is the green fungus at the base of carob trees & Will it kill the tree ?

"Green fungus" is not description of anything, and this is not a gardening Q&A forum. Samfreed 23:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I have just learned that the Carob tree is planted to honor righteous gentiles on the Avenue of Righteous Gentiles in the garden of Yad Vashem. Will Juntunen 5/6/2005

[edit] Confusion of species

Algarrobo redirects here. Unfortunately, the Spanish name "algarrobo" is not just this carob tree, but also refers to several South American species, such as Prosopis alba, which is called "algarrobo blanco"; the name was given by the Spanish precisely because it looked similar to the European carob tree. To maintainers of tree articles, I suggest keeping an eye on this. I'm about to change Algarrobo into a disambig, just like Palo santo (for the same reason). --Pablo D. Flores 18:02, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Honi HaM'agel

I just stumbled across a story about Honi HaM'agel and a carob tree, in which the long time (70 years?) required for such a tree to reach maturity and bear fruit is central. Worth mentioning? --Stickler 10:53, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] health food

Whether or not the designation of carob as a health food alternative is subjective or not, the inference is that it is. That, and since the link moves to a page that specifically speaks about a healthy diet, makes the inference highly loaded. It either needs a large caveat (as I placed), or should be removed.

Halogenated 00:38, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You are pretty much right. But things get complex when you introduce new factors, maybe more complex than necessary. Consider just these three points:
  • Carob does not need to be ingested together with those fats
  • Many people would beg to differ regarding large-scale "commercial" chocolate being (still) made with cocoa butter. Only "fine" chocolates are.
  • In "my days", which is a while ago, the claim made about carob being more healthy was because of the excitant theobromine in chocolate, which "spiritually" made it similar to evil coffee. Health food freaks didn't approve of being excited.
So I'd think that my last formulation had at least the advantage of leaving all these hornet's nests unopened.

· Michel 11:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I hear you, but i'm willing to open this Pandora's Box. Cocoa can be served without fat additives too in the same manner as carob. We need to compare apples to apples. Perhaps a more clear distinction between chocolate and prepared carob candy vs. cocoa powder and carob powder might clarify this. I'm not making comparisons between cocoa butter and other fats, just suggesting that a roasted product flavouring a sweetened fatty base is probably equally unhealthy whether it be carob or cocoa flavoured. As for health freaks and theobromine, let them continue to freak out over pseudo-science fears ;) Halogenated 18:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed about apples & apples. But I think that considerations about 1. the health value of this or that, or lack of such and 2. about what is pseudo-science and what is not (talking of POV hornets!) are beyond the scope of this article and as such have no place in it. Which is why a simple formulation like "some claim that..." or "it is considered by some..." is as truthful, objective, neutral and to the point as can be. A sensible approach for instance would be to refer to an internal or an external link discussing that particular claim.
Now, I landed on this article from another side, searching for something else, and I realized that it wrongly stated that carob was also a native American plant. So it's not like it's among my highest priorities (should remember to check off the Watch this page box), but I'm willing to discuss it with you.
· Michel 09:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
It looks much better this way, Halogenated. However, I still have a problem with the phrasing of “However the use of alternative oils and saturated fats in place of cocoa butter offers no health advantages compared to chocolate”, as it is not really relevant to the article, and for this reason on the borderline of POV. Maybe, if you insist on having it there, introduce something along the line that Certain nutritionists [?], however, consider that the use of... (if that is the case of course, ref. needed). Also: I'd find another wording than the “psychoactive substances” bit. Following that link in this particular context, one would almost be induced to believing that people get stoned on coffee or chocolate. Under caffeine, it only says that it acts as a psycho etc. Under theobromine, it's not even mentioned. I don't have a suggestion offhand, though. · Michel (talk) 15:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I edited that section extensively, and I think I managed to remove all the debate that has to do with health food as such, while keeping anything that pertains to the Carob tree and its fruit. Also, I hope the section is a better read. Samfreed (talk) 15:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Yep. · Michel (talk) 17:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Simplicity is good, I like the reduction. I didn't put the material in r.e. psychoactive substances in the first place, I just tried to accomodate what was in place. My only concern with the new lines are that it again makes some reference to carob as a health food alternative. This is a loaded term, and implies that it is healthier than chocolate which is not the case; this is particularly obvious when the health food link is opened. The whole point of my edits were to note that while certain people may feel this way, it is a matter of choice not to consume these substances in chocolate, and people with problems consuming caffeine for example may find carob a "healthier" alternative, but for the average person there is no health benefits. By opening with "Some claim..." this does not neuter the effect. Also, there should be sources for these claims, otherwise let's not bother to mention it at all perhaps. Halogenated (talk) 01:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I just fixed it. I removed the line "health food" as in health food substitute. The link does not suit the statement, as again, the inference is that it is a healthier food. The same intended meaning is conveyed without the advocacy effect. Agreed?Halogenated (talk) 01:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Excellent. Samfreed (talk) 08:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Tradition

The author of the sited article clearly states "more squeamish Christian commentators" & himself believe John the Baptist ate carob pods, not Christians in general as the uncorrected statement might have implied —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zerothis (talk • contribs) 20:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)