Talk:Carnival
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[edit] Etymology
In the Etymology section, the 'farewell to meat' argument is corroborated through the greek name of Carnival, "Αποκρεώ" |apokreo| which means 'away from meat' This is a simple observation, but I wonder if it falls under original research. Should I add it in the article?--Cafeeine (talk) 12:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV Violation
The NPOV policy is being violated in the section about Brazil, when it talks about Pernanbuco's carnival. It should be rewritten to be neutral.
AGREED. i agree about the npov policy. ALSO: Italy, as a catholic country, has a bunch of carnavals! carnaval is popular there and it should be included in the article. so should Toronto in Canada and of course the province of Quebec in Canada, esp. the city in the province called Montreal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.118.72 (talk) 00:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Shrovetide
I'm removing the section on the eitology of the word Carnival from this section as it is covered in the first section of the article and the language is a bit POV claiming the origin to be the latin and discounting all other interpretations. --Lepeu1999 18:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
After reading the entire article, I note Shrovetide is covered as a subsection to the Celebrations around the world page. The Shrovetide section appears to have been lifted from another publication or site. Is there a need for both? It appears to me the section in the celebrations around the world is both easier to read and more NPOV. I'm considering removing the Shrovetide section but would love to hear from others before doing so. --Lepeu1999 18:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Largest carnival party
The largest people concentration during the carnival party is actually the "Galo da madrugada" wich happens in the city of Recife, Pernambuco state, Brazil.
The current text is unfortunate as it doesn't mention Olinda (Pernambuco State, Brazil) and Ouro Preto (Minas Gerais State, Brazil), where the festivals presents a mixture of european, african, indian and arab culture, with roots far deeper than Salvador´s (Bahia State, Brazil) and Rio de Janeiro (Rio de Janeiro State, Brazil) currently have (Bahia carnival traditions where largely "built" in the XX century, but they have a large power in the media/politics, and so are able to present themselves with a facade of legitimacy, wich the rebellious Pernambuco state can´t afford).
[edit] greasy / fat Tuesday
Just a note for anyone who might consider adding alternative translations of "Fat Tuesday": for those not familiar with the US "Mardi Gras", the usual translation in the States is "Fat Tuesday" and that is also an alternative name for the festival. I've ventured the opinion that the "gras" could actually be better translated literally as "greasy" or "fatty", but this seems to be a matter of disagreement. My idea is that "gras", which can mean "fatty" (as in "cheveux gras" seen on bottles of shampoo for greasy hair), refers to the butter and lard people ate on that day, before giving it up, thus "fatty Tuesday". However, other people believe that "gras", which can mean "overweight", refers to the weight people put on eating that food, thus "overweight Tuesday". To me this seems only a matter of opinion, but as the name "Fat Tuesday" is so common, I'm being told my opinion, although a few others share it, is irrelevant and unhelpful and should not be added to the page. As I don't know if I'm right and it's just an alternative idea, I'm removing it, but I thought I'd write a note here in case anyone else had the same idea. Saintswithin 10:23, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Hi guys but i suggest the editors of this page to reconsider the history, of the carnaval. According to many ancient sources from Greece you can see that the tradition of Carnaval, predates the Roman.,Also you may find many informations if you search for the celebrations of Dyonissus, or Bacchus for those hwo prefer the Roman equivalent, today some villages in Greece still keep the tradition of the Dyonnisus celebrations evrey spring. PS: The Carnaval of Patra is the largest Carnaval in Europe and also one of the Largest in the world. I think it is a shame not to mention it. Alexander D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.12.196 (talk • contribs) 12:56, 6 March 2006
Hello. In Austrian/German/Swiss traditional cooking there is a strong usage of pastry fried in lard. As eating meat in the old days was a privilege and only happend a few times a year, people, in the country cooking often enriched their wheat and vegetable dishes with lard, either by frying forms of dough in it (German Austrian Krapfen - Doughnuts) or "lardening soups". I think it has all to do with eating. They needed to prepare for Lent as fasting was monitored by the clerik and done in a much more serious way than today. Fat tuesday - fat (rich) dishes. Also: It could express wealth or plentifulness - according to traditions before Lent. Bernhard Baumgartner 12:51, 7 Nov 2007
[edit] German-speaking countries
I am sorry, I have ballsed it up with my well-meant "German-speaking countries" intervention. The trouble is that the "Germany" bit wanders off (quite rightly) into Austria and Switzerland, so that title wasn't right. But this now clashes with the fact that Austria also has its own section. To make sense of this requires more rewriting than I can do right now, but just to revert to "Germany" would be a bit silly too. Can some nice person have a look at this please??? Sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.37.199.199 (talk • contribs) 12:19, 26 July 2005
[edit] Incorrect spelling?
"Carnival" is a funfair. The celebratory season before Lent is "Carnaval". Can somebody who knows how, fix this or add a "see carnival" under a heading for the proper spelling. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.116.204 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 20 February 2006.
- Erm, sorry no, that is just wrong. As any and every dictionary will tell you [1]. -- Solipsist 22:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Look in a Portuguese dictionary...it is spelled "Carnaval" >
- Portuguese is also another language. Perhaps that discrepancy can be noted under Portugual's heading?
In Malta and the UK it is Carnival for sure. It's also Karnival in Maltese.
Agreed, in English it's "Carnival," changing the spelling to match that of another language is a bad idea. In German it's "Karneval," so I think keep the English spelling.
I think using "Carnaval" in a carnival's name is okay, but in the main article it probably should be "carnival" since the article is in English.
But it should be noted that there are several carnivals in English-speaking countries, that are inspired by Brazilian Carnival, that purposefully use "Carnaval" instead of "Carnival" to distinguish that that are inspired by Brazilian Carnival and not Caribbean Carnival or European Carnival. In those situations, the spelling indicates the origin of the traditions surrounding the carnival. Ones with "Carnival" in their name frequently trace their roots to Trinidad or Europe Carnivals. Ones with "Carnaval" frequently trace their roots back to Rio Carnival. Example: Carnaval Brasileiro in Austin, Texas, San Diego Brazil Carnaval, Carnaval Miami and Carnaval San Francisco. [2] --WisTex (talk) 02:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Near the beginning of Carnival there is a link to the nonexistant article Carnaval of Venice -- then later in the same article it links to Carnival of Venice which does exist. I don't know which is the correct spelling, but surely that first dead-end link is not helpful to anyone. BananaSlug (talk) 14:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Uruguay
Info on Uruguay's carnival and a link to the murga page on wikipedia should be added but I don't know how to do that.
[edit] Canada
Caribana in Toronto, Canada is a huge event and should be added if someone has the inclination. See: http://www.caribana.com/ .
The website above is incorrect and has no affilation to the Toronto Caribbean Carnival - Caribana. The official website, that provides accurate,and updated information is: http://www.caribanafestival.com .Jamilagriffith 15:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Denmark
On 30 October 2005 a section about the carnival in Aalborg, Denmark was added to the article. On 27 May 2006 I removed the section because:
- the text consisted of copy-pasted excerpts from an article in the May 2002 issue of "Northern Light", an online news magazine in English from Aalborg University;
- it was un-encyclopedic, rather like sales copy from the local tourist office, and un-wikified;
- it was disproportionately long.
--Bwiki 23:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge abadá here?
The article abadá, about a shirt worn at carnivals so you can join a specific music group's trail, is very short and not informative. IMO it would be better to merge that article here. It is not easy to see where in the article it should be put. Overall the carnival article contains little information on the music, probably a little section on music bands in carnevals would be the right place. // Habj 06:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Abadas are trousers worn for capoeira, not shirts worn in carnival
Nowadays, ABADAs are used in Carnival here in Brazil, mostly Bahian style carnival, where people usually follow huge semi-trucks addapted to hold a walking stage, and bands performing on top of it. Even though I agree abada is a capoeira term, its now being used in carnival parades in Brazil (with more colorful outfits and looks than those traditionally used in capoeira).
[edit] Italian carnival
Actually Italy is full of different carnivals...in the article sounds like the only carnival in Italy is the one in Venice...
An important carnival is missing, the one of Viareggio... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.4.175.47 (talk) 00:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Links
Where can one add/suggest a link concerning carnival photos/video?
[edit] "Germany"-section blank / deleted
Following the history of this article, there was a section about Germany. Some weeks ago, that section contained a description of what types of carnival are celebrated in Germany; then, the section was blank (=the content was deleted, but the heading still remained). Now (not until some minutes ago), the whole section is deleted. Can anybody please so kind as to explain why? Thankyou. Thomasnimmesgern 03:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
- It seems that a vandal excised it, and whoever reverted it forgot to put it back: the blanking and the restoral sort of. I'll put it back. V-Man737 00:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Carnival Associations on wikipedia
Would it be a bad idea to let people compile a list of different carnival associations that exist in different regions of the planet, and have an article on every association, explaining about the founding of the group, the themes they incorporated in the festivities throughout the years, prizes won, etc etc? Or maybe only a list of all the groups in different regions with offsite links to their own homepages, to get in contact with or sneak a peak at like-minded people all around the world?
TheArowana 22:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Where does Mexico belong?
Mexico is currently listed in both the North America and Central America categories. This is redundant. ;-) --Disparity 21:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Mexico belongs to both North America and Latin America. The distinction should be North America and South America, or Anglo America and Latin America.
Still... is it North or Central AMERICA?
[edit] Bridgewater
The England section refers to the West Country carnivals and specifically the Bridgewater carnival. While these are called carnivals, they are neither held during the run up to Lent, nor are they based on the West Indian carnival tradition, as the Notting Hill celebration is. Are they relevant to this page at all? Rojomoke 23:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- I've trimmed that section way back for being off-topic. Thanks for the suggestion. ✤ JonHarder talk 13:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
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- How strange to remove Bridgwater material (no central "e" by the way)! Since the Bridgwater carnival is called a Carnival, what article do you imagine the reader will look up to read about Bridgwater Carnival. Surely they will look up the article called Carnival and will be puzzled to find nothing at all under "England".
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- Is it compulsory for a Carnival to be held before Lent? NO! Is it compulsory for a Carnival to be based on West Indian tradition? NO! To ignore a Carnival tradition that doesn’t fit in the “box” of your choosing is wrong.
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- Of course, the first paragraph of the article will have to point out that not all Carnivals are pre-Lent or in a particular tradition. I’ll not make the changes until I read any comments on my comments. - Adrian Pingstone 14:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
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- My preference is to maintain the more narrow definition for this article and use Carnival (disambiguation) to point readers to other meanings. I noticed that West Country Carnival wasn't listed there and added it. ✤ JonHarder talk 17:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
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- I didn't know there was an article for West Country Carnival so now I'm quite happy for the main Carnival article not to mention Bridgwater - Adrian Pingstone 21:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] New image
Image:Carnivalx.JPG, recently added, looks more like a funfair to me. Any opinions? — mholland (talk) 01:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Agree. It certainly has nothing do with "carnival" in the sense of this article. Nposs 03:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The inverse of Christian?
I looked up a word for "parallel to Christian" or "inverse of Christian" and I found Parachristian, Pseudochristian and Antichristian. Out of these three, it seems that Antichristian is the best choice for this article.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=antichristian
[edit] NPOV Violations (several)
There are many NPOV violations in this article:
1) Carnival is not celebrated by Christians because they are Christians; it is celebrated against the directives established by any Christian Church (which makes it Antichristian).
2) "The world's largest carnival celebration" is most likely not in "Salvador, BA, Brazil".
3) Even if "The world's largest carnival celebration" is in "Salvador, BA, Brazil" the correct place to mention this would be under the section for Brazil or in the main article for "Brazilian Carnival".
4) Carnival in Brazil is celebrated by unfaithful Christians all over the country, there really is no concentrated celebration. Therefore, the celebrations in Rio de Janeiro, Salvador and Pernambuco are merely a few examples.
5) There are two televised competition Carnival events in Brazil, they take place in Brazil's two major cities, São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro in the so called "Sambódromo"s (Sambadromes) of each city (respectively "Sambódromo do Anhembi" and "Sambódromo da Marquês de Sapucaí") and are transmitted by Brazil's number one TV station, Globo. In both events organizations called samba-schools", with a few thousand people each, compete among themselves, subject to a committee of referees. There is an additional winning celebration that takes place during the first weekend of Lent.
6) The politician "Leonel Brizola", of the PDT party, is not really that important in this context and should be omitted from the article.
2007/7/17: As a longtime student of Brazil and its Carnaval I agree with #2 that Salvador is likely not larger than the monstrous events in Rio. Was surprised to see the city singled out that way.
-> Must disagree with the conclusion on #1 though. Not enough cause to describe it as "anti-Christian" (or whatever chosen adjective) inasmuch as Christianity -the RC flavour anyway, which is what's involved here- has always incorporated variants and pagan cognate traditions (see for example Haiti and Cuba as well as Brasil, blending Yoruba with Xtian, etc). Therefore #4 above is, linguistically, also invalid in the absence of a basis for generalising Carnavalgoers as "unfaithful". They may or may not be firmly devoted to Catholicism- the comparison is, ultimately, irrelevant.
[edit] Inconsistency between Carnival of Venice main article and text here
In the main article it refers to the revival of the Venice Carnival after the opening of a mask shop in the 1980s. Here, however, it refers to the opening of the mask shop in the 1970s. According to http://www.visitvenice.co.uk/venice-carnival.html people decided to revive the tradition in 1979. So maybe the revival started in the 1970s (just) but perhaps the shop opened in the 1980s. Could someone check this and amend the article accordingly. Ma1cius 11:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Carnival Champions in Rio de Janeiro?
I'd like to see such a list of the winning samba schools back to the 80s at least, having just read Alva Guillhermoprieto's 1991 book (Samba), which follows Mangueira's 1988 bid for a tri-campeão (threepeat). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.41.207 (talk) 18:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] "Carnivale"?
Does this spelling variant have any precedent, or it just a misspelling? Bitbut —Preceding comment was added at 01:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Incomplete Information
While I appreciate the link to Bakhtin, shouldn't the social implications of carnival be addressed here? It's not just a big party, after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.81.31 (talk) 15:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Fasching
What is wrong with the sentence about Fasching? Arpingstone removed it because it wouldn't make sense. Why? --78.51.100.99 (talk) 21:33, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Vandalism
I just removed vandalism and within 1 minute, a nearby section was vandalized in the same manner. Can we protect this page?
Read the section on India
The DarkArcher was here 00:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
