Talk:Carmelo Borġ Pisani

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Please, his name was Carmelo Borg Pisani, write the g as it should, most probably Carmelo Borg Pisani would have been the first to oppose writing his surname in that manner as it is a known fact that the modern Maltese alphabet was something that all nationalists resented as it was seen as merely an artificial and other move to further the British official policy of "deitalianisation" which included amongst others eliminated or traces of Italic vocabulary from the Maltese language (something undertook by the failing Malti Safi movement). 195.158.88.54 (talk) 00:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

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All right, boys or girls. This article has been written by me - A FOREIGNER, NON-MALTESE - as in that time Maltese contributors looked like very profoundly sleeping - sorry - dogs. Why I wrote it ? Try to answer a simple question first : Who were Maltese men or women who could be truly called "big", "heroes", "whose place in the Maltese history is secure" ? Ehm. A problem, don't you think ?! That's why C.Borg Pisani was included there by me. We cannot measure or change history according todays' fashion, it's impossible to change it. Well, C.B.Pisani wanted to change one colonial ruler for another one (and that's also speculation - if Malta became "provincia italiana", it could be in the same league as Sicily is. Take my words according to your taste but, please, take also into account the he paid for his ideas by his life. Write revision, if you wish, I leave it in your hands now. And controversy - you should know better than me that IT STILL IS ALIVE in Malta. Radoneme 20:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)Radoneme, Oct. 29th, 2006

OK, I see the NPOV issues. Seems like it could be cleaned up, give the facts, give the viewpoints, etc. Srl 09:13, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Comment on Copysan's edits

Hi, to be Frank I don't see the point why you have to remove good faith evidence of Oral Source. Ever heard of Oral History? So do you think by cluttering the page with {{fact}} that that really does much good? - by those standards you could clutter 90% of wikipedia articles in that way. If you had, in a consequent manner, pursued such noble intentions you might have added the references I gave in situ to the footnotes (the mentioned book has no ISBN since ISBN was introduced in Malta much later).

I'm not sure how much research on the topic you have done yourself: CBP is still one those sensitive topics in Maltese History a) due to how we interpret British Colonial rule b) due to the Involvement of the Nationalist Party with facism.

Not much has been written - and whatever might have been written must - in the best of cases - be carefully interpreted. At this stage it's simply getting people to gather Information. There surely are NPOV issues with the Links, but IMHO not with the article itself. --Joelemaltais 23:21, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for your constructive criticism.
Oral history is allowed when it is documented and verified. Please see WP:NOR and WP:RS. I do not know the credentials of the grandfather, and it was not given, therefore, I cannot count hims a reliable source. Cluttering the page with {{fact}} allows readers to see that the assertions have not been verified, and if I had the time, I would go through many articles adding those tags. All it says is "citation needed" and if you wish to provide those citations (in accordnace with WP:RS), then it is perfectly alright.
If you look at my edits, all I did was rearrange the article to make it flow more logically and redid the prose. The facts were not changed nor deleted. Any information that was there is still there.
What I did delete, was the editors commentary. "I would not put it this way" is commentary, and does not belong in an encyclopedia article. The reference to "I" in this case means Wikipedia, and Wikipedia does not make judgements (WP:NPOV), nor should an editor self references (WP:ASR). Although, I do admit, taking a second look at the footnote I deleted, I could have weaved that observation about the Maltese Exiles into the text of the article. And I will do that right now.
Any other specific things you want to point out? Please reply here, and if you don't mind, leave a note on my talk page saying that you have replied. (Although you don't have to, It's on my watchlist)
Thanks. Copysan 01:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello again - thanks for speedy turnaround. I see your point and do admit that I concentrated on content without checking coherence as a whole and I suppose that contibuted to your modifying relevant content:
I would not put it this way. The fascists in Malta were at that time either interned in Uganda or deported to Italy. I suppose, that it is rather the case of fear of natural empathy towards a co-national.
The sentence is in fact very badly formulated on my part, but very relevant: If you consider that after the war the traitors put to trial (mentioned in the other quote) were not condemned to death, you can conclude that the British overreacted with CBP in an extreme wartime situation i.e It is important to emphasize that this event (putting cbp to the gallows) is not an overall reflection the colonial relationship. I'll try and get the sources - very difficult since I'dont live im Malta ;))--Joelemaltais 18:45, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I doubt the British overreacted. Killing off traitors and spies is normal all over the world. The Malta Facisists were probably deported for being facisists, and not killed because nobody ever proved them to be spying. But thats just my opinon, not that of some repute)d sources. Copysan 20:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


The deported as Maltese fascists? Kindly state relevant sources for such an assertion just for that claim and not for any proof of spying et cetera. Yours is just pro-British propaganda that has been disreputed repeatedly. The British had no excuse, and only the most servile of Maltese anglophiles would find any excuse in such action in violation of human rights. The British fighting for democracy and human rights? As a Maltese knowing the history of British domination I will never believe that. The deported were deported on never proven suspects, either before, during or after the war. Not only that, but the major deported figure was even sworn in as prime minister of Malta in 1950, Enrico Mizzi. So the British even appointed a "fascist" as a democratically elected prime minister of their colony after the war against fascism? The British were imperialists, and imperialist scoundrels in virtue of their actions. British authorities in fact sought to discredit Enrico Mizzi after the war by associated him with fascism, but they wanted to avoid associating him with the real nationalist policy in cultural terms, "italianita'". Those ILLEGALLY deported Maltese nationalists held to views predating fascism by decades, back in the 19th. century. Fascism just happened to be in the way of the Maltese nationalist cause, and some Maltese like many elsewhere including in Britain (such as Churchill himself) were fascinated by it. In Malta that would be no surprise, Malta had an Italian culture, that was so much so that in one Encyclopedia Britannica of the era, predating fascism, Malta was positioned in the Italic cultural area. A recent scientific article on genetics published The Sunday Times of Malta attested that "the contemporary males of Malta most likely originated from Southern Italy, including Sicily and up to Calabria." (http://www.timesofmalta.com/core/article.php?id=27045). Carmelo Borg Pisani was at most fighting to rectify a history vitiated by British rule which today without analysing history accordingly some might dismiss as political blasphemy. A major blight on human rights happened through that action of deportation of "Malta Facisists", as attested in a historic intervention in the then Maltese 'parliament' by another nationalist, Sir Ugo Mifsud. (http://www.maltamigration.com/news/times89353.shtml) Not only that, but some senior British officials themselves, and historians, stated the shame of such a deportation by the British authorities. This Wikipedia article is far from neutral and is riddled with anti-nationalist and pro-British rhetoric. At the moment it is 2AM in Malta and I do not have most of my books for reference to counter this article. The British has much to answer for their deeds in Malta, which were much more destructive and distorsive than any bombs by Britain's own enemy, which bombed because the British made of Malta their "Island Fortress" and "unsinkable aircraft carrier". After the war was over, the only thanks the Maltese were left with was one single George Cross, while food subsidies were cut as they were needed in Britain (and Malta was more bombed than London! These are racist priorities and nothing else!) and when a Maltese minister contacted the Americans on Marshall Aid that only led to British Authorities stating that Malta was not entitled to it because it was a COLONY (status that was usurped to start with, and even contested by ardent "Maltese" anglophiles like Lord Gerald Strickland who legally contested this up to the 1930s even though he was an ardent imperialist). The bombs fell and it ended there, British cultural policy and imperialism still effect Malta today, and the tragedy is that most Maltese don't even recognise this. We have a George Cross on our national flag (and it is on our national flag and not an integral part of it, vide art. 2 of Malta's Constitution) and Italian is not an official language while English is, even though as attested by MaltaToday Italy is Malta's top foreign aid benefactor since independence while Britain didn't provide a single penny after its forces left the islands in 1979. When people speak of Anglo-Maltese friendship, as far as international politics are concerned (personal friendships are something else which are extra-political), one should either be led to think that that is mere rhetoric or hogwash or both. As a minor relatively recent demonstration of great Anglo-Maltese friendship, pro or anti-EU whatever your opinion is, Britain wasn't even immediately in favour of Malta's EU accession even though the then Maltese government wanted it (it took the British 3 years to accept that), while Italy always was from the start as attested here - http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/2007/07/15/interview.html). Something effectively recent but unbecoming yet significative and essentially tied to this whole politico-cultural-historical question were the recent celebrations in Malta for Italy's world cup victory where many Maltese were seen celebrating in major areas with Italian shirts and flags and in some cases (as testified in some videos on youtube) this sentiment of Italianita' was even accentuated by anti-English chants in Italian going "England! England! Vaffanculo!" (England! England! Fuck Off!). As I said this was unbecoming yet significative, and there is a definite political correlation. As mentioned by Herbert Ganado, Maltese nationalists in football sided with Italy while pro-Imperialist Maltese sided with England (mostly people that were pro-British for labour reasons, being the British armed forces the main if not only employer in the islands and living many with little to no choice, aided with effective British anti-nationalist discimination in the field). Those that chanted what I stated don't know of all this complexity to the question, and just think it is mere sporting rivalism between Maltese as featured in other areas. Something related and significant was something that I witnessed today, a Maltese youth sporting a Forza Azzurri shirt (Italian supporters shirt sort of) while speaking WITH OTHER MALTESE in English! That might seem like something irrelevant for many, but many never dwelt upon this question if they did they would only conclude that it is pitiful if not pathetic, another result of British cultural imperalism, distortion and imposition. I won't even deal with the Carmelo Borg Pisani case itself as provided here (for those knowing Italian, I suggest the recently released Italian language book by the following author www.stefanofabei.it), the background material provided by the author of this wikipedia article demonstrate a lack or vitiated knowledge of related questions that makes this article the opposite of neutral.

[edit] POV section removed

I moved the following here because it is WP:POV, unsourced, speculative and full of WP:WEASEL words (e.g. "Some claim", "others say", "very probably"):

[edit] Controversy

[edit] Legacy

Some claim that he was a hero who fought for an independent Malta. Others say he was a puppet of Mussolini. The hard truth is that he was a misguided young man who very probably did not know the difference between Fascism and any other political ideology. He was not alone in this. A number of Maltese lads were tricked into confusing Fascism with "Italianita`". Unlike the majority of Maltese who cherish their Maltese national identity, they thought Malta should be Italian very much like Sicily and Sardinia. Borg Pisani (he would not have liked the "g" in his surname to be given the sign used in Maltese orthography) was too young to know what he was doing or being led into doing by Professor Carlo Mallia, a Maltese national who was a member of the Fascist Regime "representing" Malta. It is ironical that Carmelo Borg Pisani's cousin, Gorg Pisani, was a strong pro-Maltese activist who became known for his romantic poetry in praise of "Maltese" Malta as opposed to "Italian" Malta. Borg Pisani's family were never proud of his participation in politics. His brother, a Catholic priest never accepted to be interviewed by his biographers. When the current president of the Nationalist Party (which has since officially repudiated its past links to Mussolini's Fascist Party and Regime) tried to whip up support to build some kind of monument to Borg Pisani he found no such support. It would have been the first monument to a Fascist anywhere in the world!

[edit] Trial and conviction

Some claim his trial was unfair and partial. Others also say he was a prisoner of war, and thus entitled to different treatment. Norman Lowell, the leader of a fringe Maltese radical right-wing political party, claims he was a national hero.

Clarityfiend 02:53, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

I have erased all the tags about POV because the article is translated from articles in Italian, that are shown in the "external link" section. L.M. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.231.200.76 (talk) 04:38, 12 November 2007 (UTC)