Talk:Carl Freer

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[edit] Revision

I re-introduced some material about Freer's previous transgressions with law. It had a valid reference to a WIRED article and it has been reverted for no apparent reason by an anonymous user.

I'll reintroduce the text and if it's reverted again it may be an idea to protect this page so it can only be edited by registered users. Gravy 11:16, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

"This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard."
So following these stipulated conditions, i'm afraid that the insertion made by Gravy is incorrect as the story about Freer's alleged parent-signature forgery back in 1988 is false, according to a recent publication of the complete C Freer investigation. Apparently there will be alot more publications about the recent vindication of Freer in connection with the Gizmondo story. Furthermore, the reported incident in Germany is factually wrong so in order to avoid any libel, should also therefore not be included. The Wired article was based on hearsay and unconfirmed data. In the spirit of accuracy this should considered.
Having followed the postings and contributions made by the recent "authors", it seems that they are disgruntled former employees / associates of Gizmondo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrblowfeldt (talk • contribs) 05:18, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


First of all can I say I am not a former Gizmondo employee, I just came to this page and was surprised that it currently held little information about Freer's past that any previous authors sourced contributions had been removed by an anonymous poster from the same IP address.
It's hard to take the above seriously, the reason for the removals dependant on a report that no link to has been supplied, no reference to who authored it or for what purpose. It's also hard to take MrBlowFeldt's claims that what I inserted is libelous. This is information from respected publications (WIRED, LA Times) the publication of which have not been met with any action from Freer or other parties for libel.
I'll reinclude the stuff with some clarification that this is what WIRED and the LA Times have alleged. If Mrblowfeldt has more specific information about the "Complete Carl Freer Investigation" exonerating him from any wrong doing then it should be included here. I STRONGLY suspect that this Freer editing his own wikipedia entry. Anyone know how this sort of thing is usually resolved?
Gravy 11:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not Carl Freer. I am however privy to information that might not yet be public and i should have included a formal reference. For that i apologize. However, I'm sorry to say that it seems that you have some personal vendetta against Freer judging by how you formulated your reply. Ironically, i am acutely aware of a libel action filed against atleast three different publications in connection with articles published 2005 - 2006. I will include the reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrblowfeldt (talk • contribs) 17:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious

According to this article, Mr Freer's promised donation of 7 million kroner to Nordens Ark was lost in the collapse of Gizmondo. He did later make a smaller donation, but it does not seem enough to be notable, so I am removing the mention of Nordens Ark from this bio. Now that Mrblowfeldt has removed all the information surrounding Mr Freer's alleged criminal past and his links with known criminal Stefan Eriksson, there doesn't appear to be much left. --Fugu Alienking 01:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Any reason why this was reverted without adding supporting references Mrblowfeldt? Your contributions to this page and others read suspiciously like those of someone constructing a false personal history with which to commit fraud, something Mr Freer has been accused of in the past with claims made concerning VXtreme and the Kings Medical Research Trust. --Fugu Alienking 15:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

As referred to in Nordens Ark's annual report of 2005, http://www.nordensark.se the personal donation made by Carl Freer made him the largest ever private donator to the foundation. Freer was furthermore appointed as trustee of Kings Medical Research Trust. http://kingmedicalhistory.googlepages.com/home He did however resign following the slander campaign made against him for the association with Stefan Eriksson, concerned that it might taint the foundation. Tiger Telematics 10K filing of 2005 deals with the VXtreme misunderstanding made by a San Jose journalist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrblowfeldt (talk • contribs) 00:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I have no opinion on this person. All I'm saying is, if someone asks for a citation, and you can provide one, then do so. Read WP:CITE to learn how to add citations to articles. Do you understand what I am asking for now? If not, feel free to ask for help, either here or on my talk page. --Dreaded Walrus t c 01:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I removed this line: You CAN'T structure sentences based on "in part" references. Its a joke...its either true or its not.

In November 2007, Mr. Freer provided his recount of the Gizmondo events, in part confirming many of the peculiar details, including going by the false name Eric Jonsson. [4][5][6] (Note: Veckans Affärer's title "Svindlande Affärer" is ambiguous; it means both dizzying business and swindling business.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 17:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Rather than removing poorly worded sentences and their accompanying references, please try to improve them. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 13:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

To improve them they must be based on truthful accounts not simply place them back into the profile. This point was pulled out of context of the article and refers to an event that was prior to Gizmondo. I have placed it in the "Other Facts" portion and "improved" it to relate to the factual truth.

Additionally, I have removed all references to Stefan Ericcson. They are not revelant to Freer (regardless whether they had a personal relationship or not) and should not appear in this listing. The only other place they should potentially appear is in the Gizmondo listing.

Finally, I removed the Huffington reference. It contains personal contact information to Mr Freer and is not appropriate to be posted here.

Truthwriter1

In addition to the improvements you describe above, you also removed a large amount of referenced material about circumstances surrounding Freer's resignation from Gizmondo. Perhaps this was what you mean by removing all references to Stefan Eriksson, but most of the material related to Freer himself, and the brief mention of Eriksson is appropriate given the business relationship and Eriksson's involvement in the circumstances that led to both mens' resignations. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 23:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Indeed. If people have a reasonable link between them, then there is no reason why they should not be mentioned. So while it would be silly to have extended mention of, say, David Blaine in the article on Tony Blair, there is no reason why the latter article could not go into detail on his relationship with Gordon Brown. Likewise, this article can mention Eriksson, as it appears to be related. Dreaded Walrus t c 23:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed the name of Ericsson from the bio again as the cite does not even include the mention of ericsson by name and it is not reasonable to assume he should be mentioned. As he is not mentioned in the cite, it is not appropriate for him to be included in the bio. This feels like a glorified attempt to link the 2 people together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 07:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I moved the cite for the DN article down to the Other News. The reading before was confusing and sounded like Freer resigned because of the article. I haven't seen anything that would prove one item was linked to the other. It is not therefore reasonable to assume the publication of the article led to the resignation.

Additionally, what was the result of the allegations? Fugu can you update the post to include a listing of the charges filed as a result of the investigation? If no charges were filed, you should "improve" your listings to include reference that no charges were ultimately filed. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

One last change...I have removed the sentence involving the reporting of a roughly $380M loss for Tiger Telematics. The cite used did not go anywhere. Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 08:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I have again removed the copy relating to Stefan Ericcson. It is not applicable to this bio entry. You are reaching here. The fact that the 2 men were involved with the same company is immaterial unless you plan on adding all of the managements names.

I also removed your attempt to tie Freers' resignation to the publication of articles. You have NOT established a revelant premise that defines the reason for putting them there. I could draw the same assumption by saying that Freer resigned after getting a haircut. The 2 events are not revelant to each other. Just as the association of Freers resignation and association with Ericcson or the publication of the articles.

If you have a copy of his resignation letter with a reference to either...produce it and I will accept that, otherwise, stop creating extra work and continually pushing your agenda. Wiki entries should be based on facts, not half-truths...

Truthwriter1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 23:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You clearly have an interest here in keeping Eriksson's relationship with Freer hidden from public view. The noteworthiness of the relationship is well documented in the extensive references which you keep removing. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 00:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't have as much interest as you apparently have in trying to tie the 2 together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 01:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

In November 2007, a Swedish newspaper published an interview with Mr. Freer, giving his version of Gizmondo's history and other previously reported events such as an explanation of why he used an alias "Eric Jonsson" while working as a second hand car salesman in the 1990's[1]

I have removed the above comment from the Other Facts section. This is obviously someones idea of a joke...

No, it is what is reported in the reference given, but I'll revert it to the previous wording if you like. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 00:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Fugu, dude you have quite a suspicious nature regarding Freer. You always seem bent on the negative regarding this bio. I've edited out the conjecture in the Other Facts entries. It doesn't matter that 2 journalists didn't see the "proof" that Freer was in the Kings Medical trust. All that matters is the facts. He once was a trustee and now isn't. Simple... --Truthmaker1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 15:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am suspicious regarding Freer, as most people would be having read the background reports about his past activities. Two independent investigative journalists working for respected publications have come to the conclusion that the claim was false. The current public records show that he certainly is not a trustee now, and the only evidence you have are some PDF files posted on google pages, which could have been constructed by anyone. I don't think this can be presented as fact, but I think it is appropriate to include it if the references to the journalists' counterclaims are left in. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 15:52, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Well thats your issue to work out. Its not appropriate to include the journalist in the section. Neither offered any solid proof simply conjecture as to his "non-involvement" I do however believe it is fair to say he is not currently involved (provided by your link). Additionally, I have removed the reference to the lawsuit in Wisconsin. first of all, who is to know what Carl Freer that is. Do you have first hand knowledge?? I find it interesting that you included an amount in the suit. I could not find the amount from the link you posted. You must have inside information on Mr Freers' or Mr Mohammeds affairs to be privy to such information. The suit is immaterial to this entry. This is a bio about Mr Freer not a "news" article on him. Are you going to begin to pass judgement on Mr Freer or perhaps you already have? Or are you working for Mr Mohammed?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 20:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
If it is not appropriate to include the results of investigations by two independent journalists from respected publications, then nor is it appropriate to include self-hosted PDF files. Either both sides of this need to be presented, or neither. Neutrality is not negotiable here. The other option would be to get Kings Medical Research Trust to make a public statement, which would end the dispute. Presumably if Freer was once a trustee there, they would agree to clear his name? --Fugu Alienking (talk) 01:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

DN (news of the day) reported allegations that Freer had a 1988 Swedish fraud-related court conviction involving the prominent business bank Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken[2] I did some research and this event springs from a student loan that Freer signed when he was 17 (he was born in 1970). Apparently his father was unavailable to sign the note and denied signing it when the bank called to question it. The matter was settled out of court. Truthmaker1 (talk) 06:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Carl Freer.jpg

Image:Carl Freer.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 06:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Slander

The facts about Mr. Freer and Gizmondo are true and indisputable. It is not slander, because slander requires a statements to be untrue. Mr. Freer even admits himself in the realtid.se interview that he has been convicted twice, once in Sweden and once in Germany. The fact that Gizmondo lost $382.5 million is relevant, even though Mr. Freer was not convicted of any crime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novelist (talk • contribs) 05:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Repeated Deletions

Extensive deletions by 75.47.237.75, 66.214.86.36, and Mrblowfeldt deletes nearly everything in this article except for Mr. Freers donations, whether they happened or not discussed below. The article, as-is, is factual, and the events are confirmed in the November 2007 interview by Mr. Freer in person, the same articles referred to as true by the deleting trio. These recent articles further provides recent pictures of Mr. Freer in a New York street setting. This article needs protection from editing by non-registered users.

After Mr. Freer was on the first page of Veckans Affärer, with the headline "Swindling business", he is well known in Sweden. It's like being on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, it's just not forgotten easily. There is plenty of fraud-related anecdotes around Mr. Freer but apparently no more than two convictions. I find it amazing how much disclosure was provided by the Swedish police in regards to their futile fraud investigations of Mr. Freer, conveniently absent. However, the most significant accomplishment beyond his family is how he spent $382.5 million of innocent investor's money. Convicted or not, these people lost their money, and that is a fact of public interest.

It is also interesting how MrBlowfelt claims to not be Carl Freer, whose latest venture apparently is called blowfishworks. Felt or Feldt is a not uncommon latter half of a Swedish surname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novelist (talk • contribs) 21:22, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I just noticed that is IS Mrblowfeldt using the most common Swedish spelling. For not being Mr. Freer, he sure has a remarkable insight into Carl Freer's actions 20 years ago —Preceding unsigned comment added by Novelist (talk • contribs) 21:32, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Speculation about the identities of Wikipedia editors has no place here, or in the edit summaries. However it appears that there are two very different points of view being pushed here, so I have requested that the page be reviewed for NPOV compliance. Hopefully an editor with no prior knowledge of Mr Freer's business dealings can read through the references provided (including those deleted by Mrblowfeldt and 66.214.86.36's most recent edits) and find a balance. Alternatively, they could reconsider my earlier suggestion of speedy deletion of this promotional bio for a non-notable living person. —Fugu Alienking (talk) 12:18, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the article is quite POV. However, I feel that the current version is much better than the one that Mrblowfeldt and the IP editors are using (which removes valid references, cited material, categories, e.t.c.).
I also agree that revealing personal information about editors (as in one of User:66.214.86.36's recent edit summaries) is one of the worst offences there is. I'm considering a request for oversight on the matter. I'm also considering a request for comment on the whole thing, as attempts at starting discussion on this talk page with Mrblowfeldt and co are not being met, and reverts are instead taking place without discussion. --Dreaded Walrus t c 15:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] alienking

Where is the proof Alienking.com is tied to Carl Freer??? This should be removed immediately.. 22:13, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the reference was updated recently, probably to remove his name. If noone can find a better one, perhaps an admin should delete that (the page seems to be uneditable by us mere mortals) --83.67.23.108 14:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Xero Mobile

I removed this section, because the reference (Xero Mobile's corporate site) does not support a connection, and after checking for better references, I found only rumours and a denial by Freer himself of any involvement. If reference to Xero is added back in, the references should be to a news article or other reference that supports his involvement, and if the reference is not definitive, the uncertainty of this fact should be noted. Also, the catogorization under company names makes this bio look like a resume, more so when the blowfish works section consisted of a single sentence. In my opinion, Carl Freer is noteworthy only for the rise and fall of Gizmondo, anything else belongs under the Other Facts section, but that of course is open to debate here. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 12:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I added the reference. Thanks for pointing that out. - Truthmaker1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 15:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Fugs.....hey, you just can't remove things because you don't like what they say. And I don't appreciate you removing my cites as well. The Newsweek article is appropriate for this bio since it highlights Freer. I have an original scan of the complete article that I can email to you if you like. Also, enough with the Xero Mobile removals. Freer founded and was involved with the company. So stop removing all the source material from it. I can provide at least another half dozen cites on this topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 18:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed the section on Xero Mobile, not because I don't like what it says, but because the reference given to support Freer's involvement states only that there are rumors about him being involved in fundraising, but Freer himself denies any involvement with the company. The reference clearly does not support the inclusion of this section. If you have other references, then why don't you use them instead??! The other material was removed because it related to Gizmondo, not Freer. I see you have reworded them now to link them in to Freer, which is good. There is another point which you keep changing back, which is the word "claims" in reference to Freer's claim to have been exhonorated from any wrongdoing in the downfall of Gizmondo. The reference is to an interview with Freer, and there do not appear to be any other references to support this, therefore the word claims is appropriate and necessary here. It appears out of context now anyway, since you have removed all the facts about suspect business dealings and nepotism that were previously documented there, so I am inclined to remove the claim entirely. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 09:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exhonoration

As the only reference to his exhonoration is an interview with Freer himself, please refrain from removing the wording "Freer claims" from this claim. If you know of a published reference that is not from Freer himself, then please provide it when removing the word "claims". --Fugu Alienking (talk) 21:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] False claims

Warning to fellow editors: A number of dubious claims regarding Freer's history have appeared in Tiger Telematics SEC filings and in newspaper and magazine articles about Carl Freer in the past. Many of them (both positive and negative) have made it into this article where they were subsequently disputed and removed. Please take extra care when checking references, and if there are conflicting reports where one cannot be judged as more authoritative than the other, it is probably best left out of this article. I have just removed the claim about Freer winning Swedish Entrepreneur of the Year in 1997, which originated in a Moneyweek article about him. The 1997 Swedish winner of the well known award is listed on Ernst and Young's website as Claes-Göran Österlund of Hotell Ekoxen. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 17:34, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

ATTN: Carl Freer commited no wrongdoing while working at TGTL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.54.163.168 (talk) 14:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New info

I am submitting several new updates to this profile as much new information has been published on Freer. I have included valid references for each of the new entries. There are many more to come. -Truthmaker —Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthmaker1 (talk • contribs) 17:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

You can't remove copy I've submitted simply because you don't like what it says..Truthmaker1 —Preceding comment was added at 11:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

It is you who is removing copy, which a number of editors now have restored to the page after checking that the references are reliable, and that the article text matches the facts laid out in the references. In one edit summary, you mentioned that the authors of the references had "been indicted", and I asked you to discuss that here with references to the indictment, so that other editors have a chance to review your reasoning and decide whether you have a valid point. Until then, it is the word of a single pseudonymous wikipedia editor against two journalists from a respected UK newspaper. The fact that you have not taken up that offer, and continue to blank certain parts of the article without proper explanation, makes your edits look like vandalism. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 15:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted the content again and will continue to do so. The authors of the article you are citing are under indictment for perjury and slander. There is NO basis to the reference other than the article. If Freer was arrested, produce a link to the arrest record, otherwise DROP it... Truthmaker1 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Further references have been provided, authored by different journalists, some predating that story so certainly not basing their claims on the work of those two journalists. Note that none of these stories contains a retraction notice, as would be expected if your allegations about the journalists were true. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 22:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Where are the "other" journalists?? In prison as well?? We know you are biased AGAINST Freer, so your opinion is pointless. Regardless of the facts, you will ALWAYS believe Freer is a villain (as you have said before). I will NOT allow the integrity of this entry be compromised because you have a personal axe to grind regarding Freer. Truthmaker1 (talk) 14:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)Truthmaker1

[edit] Wider discussion

A user has requested comment on biography for this section.
This tag will automatically place the page on the {{RFCbio list}}.
When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the list.

Is multiply sourced content about Carl Freer's alias and past crimes appropriate for this biography? See the talk above and AfD discussion for previous discussion. Also see recent page history (early June 2008) for content in question.

  • RFC response. I've carefully read this talk page as well as the English-language articles on the article page. I think the second paragraph belongs in the article but in a somewhat modified format and not in the lead. The problem with these two sentences is that two of the citations are in Swedish, so there is little or no way for English-speaking Wikipedians to assess the reliability or verifiability of the source. The Sunday Times appears to be a good quality, broad-sheet (as opposed to tabloid) newspaper so is a good source and it does mention the incident(s) raised in these sentences. However, my objection to these sentences, especially the second, is it seems a bit misleading in that Freer gave a response that he thought the checks were stolen (why was only one portion of the article referenced and not this?). Also, for exceptional claims you really need a couple of high quality sources that say the same thing. I did a Google news search and could only come up with recent articles that did not mention these incidents. (As an aside, regarding other sources, The Register is of questionable journalistic quality given its reputation as a satirical paper. The Atlanta Business Chronicle appears to be a good quality paper.)
So, first, I suggest labeling a section called "Controversies" and placing the second paragraph there. Second, I suggest rewriting this section to include the mentioned past misdeeds (i.e., only those where convictions were reported; not those where there were just allegations or hearsay) and only if additional quality sources can be found to support the statements. Third, the rest of the article also needs additional quality sources (not on-line satirical papers, tabloids).
I will try a Lexis Nexis search to see if I can come up with anything as well. Renee (talk) 16:03, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, good suggestions. It used to be in a separate section, but during AfD discussion the article was heavily edited and everything ended up in one section, with the Gizmondo and Media Power sections being broken out again since. I've labelled the new section 'Legal Problems' to avoid confusion of the meaning of "controversies" leading to material inappropriate for a BLP being added to the new section, or allegations that the whole section is inappropriate based merely on the section title. I've also merged the other two short sections into one dealing with 'Business Activities'. If more material is added, it can always be split again, but the sections seemed too short on their own. --Fugu Alienking (talk) 16:44, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Fugu Alienking is NOT an objective source for this article. See post on the Truthmaker1 discussion page from Fugu_alienking: He says "I villanize him because he is a villain. I don't like to see a valuable resource such as Wikipedia used to fabricate a squeaky clean resume-like profile in order to convince more investors to give their money to this fraudster. " This is HARDLY the discussion from an objective source. Truthmaker1 (talk) 00:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)Truthmaker1

I wasn't using Fugu as a source; I was using The Sunday Times as a source. Also, I think the LA Times is a good source. I don't think you can get away from certain facts about Freer and moving them away from the lead and using good sources is about as good as you can do given they're published in reliable, verifiable sources. I wouldn't object to you inserting Freer's side of the story as I mentioned above (i.e., that he thought his checks were stolen) in the controversy section. I do think the Swedish language newspapers are a problem and should be deleted. I ran a Google news search on the name Carl Freer and there were loads of references.
Instead of deleting the controversies section (and you have to admit, there have been some), why don't you add some sections for balance like "History" and other things you think might make him notable? Renee (talk) 01:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
First of all you cant use Swedish sources. No one can understand whats in them. Second of all, the liquiadtors report is out and cleared Freer of ALL the charges, hence the LA times article has been proven inaccurate and you can not use that. I am trying to install the truth here and you cannot continue to ignore it. Truthmaker1 (talk) 16:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)Truthmaker1
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying? Are you saying that Freer was cleared of the the teen fraud conviction and for the 2005 German conviction? (these are what The Sunday Times and The Los Angeles Times sources are being used for, nothing else) Here is the direct quotation from The Sunday Times (for example):
While still in his teens, Freer was convicted of fraud after forging his parents’ signature to get a loan.And a German court last year fined him €200,000 (£135,000) for writing bouncing cheques while working as a car dealer in the 1990s — a time when he sometimes used a second name, Erik Jonsson. Freer claims he cancelled a cheque after he thought he was being sold stolen cars."
  • Can you please provide recent sources that say these two events did not occur?
In the meantime, I've rewritten the lines slightly to include both accusations and the defense for NPOV. I agree the Swedish sources should go.
Friendly suggestion -> there is so much more unsavory things written about Freer in these two sources that I would suggest just letting it go; these things happened long ago and I think most people reading this article will see that. Renee (talk) 18:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)