Talk:Captain Queeg

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[edit] Why?

Ok. I'm hoping maybe someone can straighten it out. Why, in the end, does Greenwald (and SINPAC) maintain that Queeg is NOT incompetent and that Maryk was not justified under 185?

1. -- Queeg on numerous occasions would blow his stack without cause. Example -- when he found out Keefer was writing a novel, he exploded. There was no justification for this -- the matter of a crewman’s personal activities (baring violations of the law or regulations) is not under his jurisdiction.
2. -- The water crisis. When he ordered the men deprived of water, it seems to me Maryk would have been justified to act then. How can depriving the men of water be construed as an attempt to enforce discipline? The action endangered the lives of the crew and officers. Three days without water will result in death. In extreme heat as in the tropics, death could occur sooner. This would clearly constitute cruel and unusual' punishment.
3. -- After the tow-line incident, it is clear that his superiors know -- or at least suspect -- him to be incompetent.
4. -- On his own, he showed himself to be a raving lunatic in the courtroom. This would show that the doctors who testified for the prosecution were probably told what to write in their reports. One doctor on the stand verbally admitted that Queeg was a sick man. This was omitted from his report -- and under the laws of perjury, an omission is as much a lie as a fabrication.
5. -- When Greenwald confronts Maryk and Keith afterward, he points out that if they had acted differently at a certain time, it would not have been necessary for him to have relieved Queeg during the storm, and he speaks of the man’s 14 years of service. This makes no sense. What the man was in the past was irrelevant; the issue was what he was in the present. Maryk examined the Captain on the bridge -- he spoke to him, passed his hand in front of the Captain's face, snapped his fingers in front of his face, and got no reaction of any kind. The man was -- for only the moment yes - catatonic. Queeg didn't even protest Maryk’s actions for 2 full minutes. Given the fact that he was clearly catatonic at the time, how could he NOT have been justified in taking command?

From all this – above all the crazy claims Queeg made on the stand -- why is it the opinion of everyone that he is NOT incompetent?

For the record: in the book, Keith ultimately became Captain of the Caine. Maryk was given command of an LST. The Court-Martial convening authority disapproved the verdict (this goes against the principle that a trial verdict can not be impeached) and issued them both formal repramands (brazenly proclaiming them guilty) .

-- Jason Palpatine 00:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Two reasons. First, they possibly see these as isolated incidents of a perhaps eccentric captain, but, as is pointed out elsewhere in the novel, naval officers are fond of telling appalling anecdotes about their captains. Second, to do so would expose captains to greater risk of being brought down from below.

And Maryk and Keith were not justified. Keith himself knows this; he points it out in his letter to May. They did not support Queeg when he needed supporting. Maryk is less at fault than Keith, but Maryk had the greater responsibility and fell down on the job by being convinced by Keeler.

During World War II, the officers of the Caine indulged themselves in a private little war against their Captain. They made no secret of this. Queeg knew. All he could do was retreat or retaliate. And Maryk tolerated it. This was a great failure of leadership and he did not earn a place in the postwar Navy.

But the final verdict of whether the convening authority really bought what was said at the trial was -- Queeg's assignment to Iowa. Queeg went, but the officers were in the wrong too, greatly so.--Wehwalt 12:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I do not believe the convening authority was also responsible for assigning Queeg to Iowa. Separate departments.

"Eccentric" is a polite word for insane. To call him eccentric and sane is hypocritical.

"the officers of the Caine indulged themselves in a private little war against their Captain. " Maryk tolerated it? Say what? Could you point out where in the novel that is? I'd like to look it up. Seemed to me it was the other way around. I saw the officers and crew bending over backwards in their efforts to do carry out their duties. I saw Queeg waging the war with them.

"Second, to do so would expose captains to greater risk of being brought down from below." I remember the argument. If that was really considered, then the whole concept of law and justice went out the window. The argument is totally without merit and, more importantly, irrelevant. The issues before them were 1) Queeg's competence and 2) the judgment of Maryk. Under law, no verdict can be made based on the possible future ramifications. The court-martial is only concerned with the law and the past. If they actually were taking the point seriously, then article 185 should never have been on the books.

-- Jason Palpatine 13:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

"Eccentric" is a polite word for insane. To call him eccentric and sane is hypocrytical. - disagree with this completely.Michael Dorosh 13:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Eccentric = insane. ref. Jack Palance/Ripley's Believe It or Not! (1984) Also, this user was considered eccentric and was separated from the service on account of it. -- Jason Palpatine 00:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There are several incidents where Maryk allowed contempt of the captain in his presence, and did nothing or left the room. They are described by Keith in his testimony. Maryk's duty as exec (notably, he is often referred to as "the exec" in the book) was to stop it, whatever the justification. If the captain was so far gone, he should have turned him in to higher command. His statement to Keefer on the New Jersey was right on the money: Since they didn't put up, it was time to shut up. Maryk's follow-through (and also past conduct) though, undermined his statement. And I never said the convening authority assigned Queeg to Iowa. It's all one navy, though.--Wehwalt 11:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is versus seems

I'm concerned about the statement that Queeg "is unable" to deal with the typhoon. We do not know this. His decision to maintain fleet course may have been a correct one. The expert ship handler called by the prosecution so stated. I suggest we find a compromise. How about "is almost unresponsive, causing Maryk to conclude Queeg is unable to deal with the crisis."--Wehwalt 11:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Either it is or it is not. There's no in between. -- Jason Palpatine 20:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Queeg was catatonic, i.e. in a tupor. Maryk spoke to him, and got no response. He waved his hand in front of his face and got no response. He snaped his fingers in front of his face and got no response. He was completly unresponsive. What more proof of incapaitatipon did he need? The man didn't even react to Merik's giving orderes for 2 minutes. -- Jason Palpatine 11:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

He responded enough, and repeatedly, to make it clear that he wanted to maintain Fleet course. If he had never responded, it would be much more clear. It is Maryk, by the way. So "almost unresponsive" is a better statement of what happened, I would think.--Wehwalt 11:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Saw the film the other day On Demand. He did not say anything when Maryk spoke to him. -- Jason Palpatine 20:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

In the book, he contradicts Maryk at least twice when Maryk tries to get him to change course. And he fairly promptly responds, although not completely to the point, when Maryk assumes command. What if we were to make it clear that things happen a bit differently in book and movie?

--Wehwalt 20:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite to eliminate POV and conslusory language concerning matters Wouk leaves the reader to decide

What is "conslusory "? -- Jason Palpatine 20:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)