Talk:Capitalist mode of production

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I have tagged this article as NPOV as it states one particular view as fact, ignoring NPOV and wikipedia policy. I will come back to edit it more extensively later. (RookZERO 01:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC))

I removed the tag because I really don't see any POV issues with the article. However, it would be nice to have some inline cites within the body of the article, and I would strongly favor removing the seperate "Criticisms" section, and including those points in appropriate places in the main body. Doc Tropics 18:47, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

So far as I can tell, this entire article simply is a summary of Marxist writings on capitalism, and for clear reasons are at odds with the description of capitalism that would come from either capitalists, more moderate socialist, technocrats, mercantilists or any number of other economic perspectives. (RookZERO 18:50, 28 May 2007 (UTC))

I removed the NPOV tag. Capitalists, technocrats, etc. don't speak of modes of production. Perhaps you are looking for the article on capitalism?--Horse Badorties 04:14, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I have restored my NPOV tag. This article seems to do nothing more than recited marxist claims, and this characterization of capitalism is at odds with those of non-marxists viewpoints. (RookZERO 20:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC))

RookZERO's edit appear to be nothing more than vandalism. I have reverted to the previous version. --Horse Badorties 02:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Just to back up Horse Badorties: I came to this article looking for a summary of what Marx wrote about capitalism; the fact that the title includes the words 'mode of production' shows that it is an article about the Marxist point of view. I would expect to find the main body of material about capitalism in an article called Capitalism, as we do. On the other hand, I do find the long section about the former USSR etc rather inappropriate, and think it belongs in an article on State Capitalism. Marinheiro 12:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

Uh these quotes clearly show bias or are unjustified/without citation:

"The prices of both inputs and outputs are mainly governed by the market laws of supply and demand (and ultimately by the law of value)." Marx never claimed supply and demand was how value was determined in Das Kapital vol. I; in fact, he adamantly stuck with the labor theory of value...

"Being carried out for market on the basis of a proliferation of fragmented decision-making processes by owners and managers of private capital, social production is mediated by competition for asset-ownership, political or economic influence, costs, sales, prices, and profits. Competition occurs between owners of capital for profits, assets and markets; between owners of capital and workers over wages and conditions; and between workers themselves over employment opportunities and civil rights." But Marx notes that (in capitalism) when capital is sufficiently concentrated in few enough hands, the "laws of motion" of capital are no longer observable...

"The overall aim of capitalist production, under competitive pressure, is (a) to maximise net profit income (or realise a net superprofit) as much as possible, through cutting production costs, increasing sales, and monopolisation of markets and supply, (b) capital accumulation, to acquire productive and non-productive assets, and (c) to privatize both the supply of goods and services and their consumption." Unsubstantiated assertion ("citation needed")

Actually Marx stresses that the motive force of capitalism is not the consumption of the capitalist, but the fact that in order to fulfill his role as a capitalist he has to accumulate: the capitalist's "own private consumption is a robbery perpetrated on accumulation ... Accumulate, accumulate! That is Moses and the prophets! ... Therefore, save, save, i.e. reconvert the greatest possible portion of surplus value, or surplus product, into capital! Accumulation for accumulation’s sake, production for production’s sake ..." (see

"The finance of the capitalist state is heavily dependent on levying taxes from the population and on credit; that is, the capitalist state normally lacks any autonomous economic basis (such as state-owned industries or landholdings) that would guarantee sufficient income to sustain state activities. The capitalist state defines a legal framework for commerce, civil society and politics, which specifies public and private rights and duties, as well as legitimate property relations."

"Capitalist development, occurring on private initiative in a socially unco-ordinated and unplanned way, features periodic crises of over-production (or excess capacity)." But Marx noted in vol. I of Das Kapital that this was observable if the concentration of capital was not sufficiently developed...

"Many of the state capitalist theories, (which actually originated in Germany, where they were already criticised by Frederick Engels), define "capital" only as a social relation of power and exploitation." Citation needed for Engels' criticisms...

"This idea is based on some passages from Marx, where Marx emphasized that capital cannot exist except within a power-relationship between social classes which governs the extraction of surplus-labour. It is this power-relationship that is most important for the proponents of theories of state capitalism; everything else is secondary." Citation (and preferably passage too) needed...

""State-cap" interpretations cannot in truth be reconciled with Marx's own texts. They are very selective interpretations of those texts, which try to find analogies between particular quotes from Marx and particular features of Soviet-type societies. This, it is argued, is essentially a theological interpretation, not a scientific analysis. Because of that, there is nothing that could refute or falsify it, the interpretation is an article of faith." Clearly biased in its presentation...

" *"State-cap" theorists make their interpretation true by definition, by running together characteristics from very different historical epochs and forms of society. By the same token, they fail to identify what is specific about the socio-economic structure of different societies. The implication is that any society which is not socialist must be capitalist, and if not capitalist in Marx's own sense, then state-capitalist, i.e. just a "different kind" of capitalism than Marx envisaged.

   * The "state-cap" interpretation makes it difficult to understand how a transition from capitalism to socialism could possibly occur, beyond general rhetoric about "workers power" and the danger of bureaucracy. There is no real economic analysis, only a statement about who holds power.
   * The "state-cap" interpretation is essentially a moral-political condemnation of Soviet-type societies, but not a serious objective explanation of the real functioning of those societies and the real progress they made.
   * The "state-cap" interpretation fails to distinguish between different kinds of markets, functioning in a very different way, and benefiting different groups and social classes.
   * The supporters of a "state cap" interpretation fail to appreciate the difference between a state apparatus which has an autonomous economic base (because it owns the means of production) and a state apparatus which depends mainly on taxes and credit to finance its activities.

   * The supporters of the "state-cap" interpretation keep changing their arguments about why Soviet-type societies are state capitalist, making their case true by definition. Initially, it was argued that state capitalism in Russia was a more advanced stage of capitalism, later that viewpoint was revised." Original research, biased in its presentation, without any citations...

Just some concerns... Pqnelson (talk) 02:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)