Talk:Capital punishment in Texas

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	This article is part of WikiProject Texas, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Texas.
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7/17/06 - Edited the section in regards to the trial proceedings, Texas has no "life without parole" statuate. As I remember, it was to take effect 9/1/05, but was struck down. We Texan's sure love the death penalty. I'm texan, so I can attest to it being the truth. Also, please note, Texas is arguably one of the most conservative states in the country.

Contents 1 Holy POV, Batman! 2 Complete violation of Wiki style guide... 3 NPOVisation 4 Please justify the reversal of my edit on this page. 5 Texas' population

[edit] Holy POV, Batman!

Executions are a way to continue to "dehumanize" and "exclude" certain groups from normal society.

If that ain't POV, I don't know what is.

Critics of capital punishment in Texas note the importance of failing to provide meaningful review in state habeas proceedings, because federal law binds federal courts to defer to state courts' findings. Critics point out that the process as practiced in Texas, therefore, is driven entirely by the State, whose proposed findings are usually adopted verbatim as a routine matter.

That's a whole lot of critiquing with no links to any kind of studies...and that sounds awfully weasely, since there are critics of everything.

Since that time 1110 people have been legally executed, by a variety of methods — hanging, firing squad, electrocution and lethal injection.

I didn't see a source to this; I'd like to read some more, since I'm from Texas.

There is also purported evidence that the quality of these elected jurists is not as high as those appointed in other states.

And we'd sure like to see it.

The quality of the attorneys is also purportedly low for capital cases in Texas. Often the accused are unable to afford their own representations and must use court-appointed lawyers. These people may not have experience with death penalty cases, others have been simply incompenent. In the case of Calvin Burdine, his lawyer fell asleep during the trial. Appeals were first turned down on the grounds that the constitution does not say anything about the lawyer needing to be awake during the trial.

More propoganda and POV. This needs a clean-up, badly. Jennifer 09:05, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The first statement that you report as POV is from The Rope, the Chair, and the Needle: Capital Punishment in Texas, 1923-1990. I've clarified this in the text.

The number 1110 comes from the Espy File for executions up to 1964, and from then on the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. I've added references to these two in the text by the number.

The "Why the high rate?" section is sourced from this PBS page, which itself sources an article by Brent Newton entitled "Capital Punishment: Texas Could Learn a Lot from Florida" from Texas Lawyer, February 26, 1996. This article unfortunately isn't online and I haven't read it myself. Perhaps the entire section could be removed? I can see that it is a POV minefield. Evil Monkey - Hello 05:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Complete violation of Wiki style guide...

Given Texas' general conservative political tone, some say (WHO? Cite?) this means they often take a tough stance on crime to ensure reelection. There is also purported evidence (WHERE? Cite?) that the quality of these elected jurists is not as high as those appointed in other states.

The quality of the attorneys is also purportedly (BY WHOM? Cite?) low for capital cases in Texas. Often (HOW OFTEN? CITE?) the accused are unable to afford their own representations and must use court-appointed lawyers. These people may not have (WEASEL WORDS) experience with death penalty cases, others have been simply incompenent. In the case of Calvin Burdine, his lawyer fell asleep during the trial. Appeals were first turned down on the grounds that the constitution does not say anything about the lawyer needing to be awake during the trial. After further appeals, this case has now gone back for a retrial. Much has been done to improve the quality of legal representation recently, but there are many people on death row who were sentenced under the previous laws and rules. (Nice story, got a CITE?!?)

Violates virtually every part of the Wiki style guide, no cites, POV, weasel words, utter garbage.

[edit] NPOVisation

I tried to improve the neutrality by making it clearer that some hypotheses are the opinion of critics. Not sure of what the response of supporters would be, please add if you are familiar with Texas. However the main POV points (assuming someone's opinion as fact) should be gone, so I removed the POV tag.

[edit] Please justify the reversal of my edit on this page.

The purpose of the Wikipedia page "Capital punishment in Texas" is stated as "This article is part of WikiProject Texas, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Texas."

With this qualification, "a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Texas", the relevance of the content of the article, as pertains to capital punishment, is defined as Texas Law and by extension, U.S. Federal Law; as Texas is a member State of the federation of states collectively recognized as the United States of America.

I edited the opening statement "Capital punishment has been used in the U.S. state of Texas and its predecessor entities since 1819" to read as "Capital punishment has been used in the U.S. state of Texas and its predecessor, the Republic of Texas". I struck out the phrase "entities since 1819"; because this exceeds the scope of the article, "a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Texas." The only predecessor "entity" that might be considered to be legitimately relevant to the State of Texas, is the Republic of Texas.

The Republic of Texas existed from 1836 until 1845; when it was annexed into the Union as a Slave State, rather than a territory, with the option of subdividing into as many as four additional states. Prior to 1836, much of the present State of Texas, as defined by geographical boundaries, was a territory of Mexico and as such, was governed by Mexican Law. Hence, to cite "entities since 1819" is to include Mexican Law in a discussion, that by definition, is limited to "the U.S. state of Texas."

Therefore; to cite any predecessor entities to the State of Texas, other than the Republic; is not relevant to Texas Law or US Federal Law, regarding the topic Capital Punishment. This is vague language and to the casual reader is misleading, in that, it does not indicate that Mexican Law ruled prior to 1836. As I stated in my original edit justification: Mexican law is not relevant to Texas or U.S. Federal law, regarding capital punishment, or in any other context...

Law during the period that Texas was a Territory of Mexico, as administered by Mexico, or briefly by France (as an occupying power of Mexico), is not relevant to this discussion. Hence, the purpose of my edit--to refer to the Republic of Texas and eliminate any implied reference to the laws of Mexico or other powers, such as France. Strict adherence to the scope of the article would not even include The Republic; only the period from admission into the Union as a State, from 1845 to present.

Please justify the reversal of my edit or remove any discussion of law regarding the "U.S. State of Texas", prior to 1845.

68.203.130.22 20:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: I was previously logged in; however my user name did not appear! I admit that I am a new contributor to Wikipedia; so I do not know if my session timed-out or exactly what caused my user name to not appear at the end of my comments. In that I do not want to appear to be purely anonymous; i.e. a non-static IP address, I am now attempting to add my user name to my comments above.

Please excuse my inexperience with Wikipedia...

My comments and challenge to the wording of this article still stand.

Novus Ordo Seclorum 20:19, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

The explanation of death eligible crimes in Texas is misleading.

"Currently, only the crime of 'capital murder' (which is equivalent to such terms in other states as 'murder with malice aforethought', and is defined roughly as the intentional and willful taking of another's life) is eligible for the death penalty."

Texas's version of capital murder is not equivelant to "murder with malice aforethought" or premediated murder from other states. In fact, death eligible crimes include unpremeditated murder while incarcerated for life, unpremeditated murder of a child under six years of age, or unpremediated murder of multiple people in the same "transaction."

See http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/petoc.html for the entire Texas Penal Code. The murder statute is 19.02 and the capital murder statute is 19.03.

By far, the article's biggest oversight is the effect of Texas's sheer population. I read an article some time ago that Oklahoma actually had many more executions per murder convict than Texas and that Texas does not have that many more capital executions than other similarly conservative states.

That, and the article generally reads as some press release by an anti-death-penalty organization. There's no hint of balance in the article and the article's statements use weasel words and few citations.

Also note that I'm saying this as an opponent of the death penalty.

[edit] Texas' population

By far, the article's biggest oversight is the effect of Texas' sheer population. I read an article some time ago that Oklahoma actually had many more executions per murder convict than Texas and that Texas does not have that many more capital executions than other similarly conservative states.

That, and the article generally reads as some press release by an anti-death-penalty organization. There's no hint of balance in the article and the article's statements use weasel words and few citations.

Also note that I'm saying this as an opponent of the death penalty.