Talk:Capablanca chess

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[edit] Gothic and Grand Chess

I think Gothic and Grand Chess are misplaced here. As these chess variant are quite popular, both of them need a separate article. Even if they will be stub-articles initially, I expect them to grow. For example, German version of Wikipeia has a lengthy article on Gothic Chess. Any objections if I do this? Andreas Kaufmann 06:30, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

As nobody objected, I moved Grand Chess and Gothic Chess to separate articles. Andreas Kaufmann 15:50, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I agree, this is a good idea to do. Samboy 01:34, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Popularity

Has this game reached any popularity? Are there tournaments? Any informed opinions on how gameplay differs from normal chess? --Apoc2400 04:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

There have been no tournaments for Capablanca Chess, per se, but there have been tournaments that include Capablanca chess. For example, The Chessvariants.org current tournament includes Capablanca Random chess. Just to clarify 22:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistency

In the opening paragraph of the article, a Capablanca chess variant is defined as being played upon either a 10x10 or 10x8 board. If Energizer Chess, an 8x8 board game, is to be included, then the definition needs to be changed. Should we presumptuously change the definition? Otherwise, it should be excluded. -AceVentura

As the author of Energizer Chess, I think I shouldn't be meddling in to modify this page. However, since the sub-section is called "Variants inspired by Capablanca Chess", and Energizer is very much so, I don't see why it doesn't belong. In an unrelated note, also games like Capablanca Shatranj (see the chess variants pages might belong into this list. --Sibahi 14:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Capablanca tried only 8x10 and 10x10 boards, so the introduction is correct. However, "Variants inspired by Capablanca Chess" can also have different sizes, this is not a criteria whether include them or not. Andreas Kaufmann 20:36, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Place For Games Related To Capa

The games played upon 10x10 and 8x8 boards cannot be Capa variants proper (like all of the others). [See the first sentence of the article.] So, they do not belong in the "predate" or "postdate" sections. However, related games such as Grand chess and Energizer Chess could go appropriately into a new section of this page entitled "Variants Related To Capablanca Chess" or some such. Also, a new page could be created for Energizer Chess if it is considered sufficiently noteworthy. Please take a responsible, constructive course of action because GC & EC are unacceptable to me in the "postdate" section. --InfoCheck

I renamed the section to Variants inspired by Capablanca chess. Now it is fine to have Grand chess and Energizer chess there. Andreas Kaufmann 21:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not about "inspiration". This is about dates- whether or not a variant predates or postdates Capablanca Chess. The original section title was poor. It had no sense of balance with the title of the "predate" section. [I hope you don't change it, also.] So, I improved it. Having Grand chess and Energizer Chess in this section garbles it up from the viewpoint of clarity of classification.

If I invented a game similar to checkers but was somehow "inspired by Capablanca Chess" when I did so, why could not I also rightfully include it within the section title you prefer by this poorly-defined standard? --InfoCheck

The term 'postdate' doesn't make any sense for me. For example, Chess960 also "postdates" Capablanca chess. Should we include it here as well? And yes, if you invent a checker game, somehow related to Capablanca chess, it should be refered to from this article as well. Andreas Kaufmann 06:55, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Andreas Kaufmann. The term "inspired by" makes more sense for the reader than "postdate", since the point of the section is to refer to other games in the Capablanca family. Most of these are considered to be improvements by their inventor over the original Capablanca Chess game. Besides, both Grand Chess and Energizer Chess postdate Capablanca Chess. (I have refrained from making modifications to that section since I am referred to as the inventor of Energizer.) --Sibahi 11:00, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, what do you folks think of the new section? Note that it was not possible to give a graphic representation for Grand chess and Energizer Chess on this page, comparable to that given the other proper, 10x8 variants, without cluttering-up the "postdate" section until this new section was created.

Sure, it is more work to restructure the article properly but this accommodates two significant games related to Capablanca Chess that do not fit neatly into any other categories. Of course, everyone is welcome to improve this greatly- just please don't revert this article to its previous, primitive state and destroy all of my good work. --InfoCheck

[edit] Seirawan chess

Thanks Sibahi for finding information about Seirawan chess! I think this is a major event in chess variant world. The last time when a chess grandmaster introduced a new chess variant was in 1996 (Chess960 by Fisher). Andreas Kaufmann 21:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it makes sense to continue to add on variants of varying dimension (10x10, and 8x8) and somehow try to retro-fit an explanation that it is "derived from" Capablanca.

1. There were no citations for these claims.
2. If the board size is not the same, it really is not a modification of a game specificially designed for an 80 square board.
3. While it is notable that a GM invented a variant, it does not "automatically follow" that it is linked to this particular page.

GothicChessInventor 23:07, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


The term Capablanca Chess refers to a family of variants that include the Chancellor and the Archbishop. And, as you should know, Capablanca didn't specifically design his game for the 8x10 board, but also experimented with a 10x10 board. Yasser Sierawan, incidentally, does refer to Capablanca in the articles written about his game, and he, as well, considers his game an improvement. --Sibahi 05:25, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stealth chess

I added it not as it is a variant of chess using an 8x10 board, not because it is directly linked to Capablanca chess. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Variants inspired by Capablanca Chess

Have the images changed, or is the diagram to the right of this section simply misleading? A board *full* of (64) pieces? Can't find a decent historical page to see if this has always been the case... 86.147.154.138 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 11:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability Of Energizer Chess

I do not question the notability of Grand chess and Seirawan chess which have their own Wikipedia pages and rightly so. However, Energizer Chess was unilaterally introduced onto this page by its inventor Sibahi. It does not have a Wikipedia page of its own nor does it sufficiently merit one. Although it is classified correctly within the "variants which use a different board" section, I doubt that this virtually unknown, new game deserves mention upon this page ... yet. At least, there have been tournaments and exhibitions for Grand chess and Seirawan chess. --BenWillard —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 19:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

  • The only source appears to be a wiki, which doesn't meet WP:RS requirements, and the source is not independent of the creator. It should be removed. Quale 20:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
If you reviewed the history, I didn't add Energizer Chess. Samboy did. I don't have to say about the matter, because of conflict of interest. but I would just like to add that the Chess Variants Pages is not a wiki. Only the posters may edit their posts (aside from admins, of course.) This response is just for the record, as they say, not because I want to agree or disagree with the edit. --Sibahi 23:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
      • I never looked at who made the original edit because it doesn't matter—Who added it to this article is irrelevant when considering the adequacy of the source. By source I was not referring to the editor who added Engergizer Chess to the article, but rather the external link http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSenergizerchess that the editor used to support the edit. The site www.chessvariants.org may not be a wiki, but didn't you write the page that Samboy used as a reference? Wikis are not the only impermissible sources: most blogs and web forums also don't make the grade. These sorts of sources can be used in wikipedia for some purposes, but they should almost never be used as the sole source, as was the case here. It looks to me like 1) www.chessvariants.org doesn't meet WP:RS for most purposes no matter who adds it to an article, and 2) the particular page cited was not created independently of the inventor of Energizer Chess and so is not an independent source. If either of those points is wrong, feel free to correct the record. Quale 00:08, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't answering you with the first remark. I was merely responding to the claim BenWillard made that I added my game here. As mentioned, I didn't. (Also, please don't change my formatting again.) --Sibahi 01:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for incorrectly attributing the introduction of Energizer Chess to Sibahi instead of Samboy. The edit history of this page has been quite extensive in recent weeks. So, I based my remark upon (faulty) memory instead of verification. --BenWillard —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 01:21, 28 September 2007 (UTC)