Talk:Cao Dai

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 WikiProject Religion
Religion Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
Vietnam Portal

This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
 WikiProject Southeast Asia This article is within the scope of WikiProject Southeast Asia, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Southeast Asia-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

Contents

[edit] Cao Dai army

They had some role in the Vietnam War. --Error 05:31, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

  • AFAIK they had to suffer from the general anti-religious mentality after the war, but I have to do more research. Ravn 13:45, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • found a snippet of information: "The importance of Cao Dai religion has been due in part to its standing army, which was involved in the Vietnam War" from Gall, Timothy L. (ed). Worldmark Encyclopedia of Culture & Daily Life: Vol. 3 - Asia & Oceania. Cleveland, OH: Eastword Publications Development (1998); pg. 808. -- does anybody have access to this source? Ravn 13:50, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

As far as I know the role of Cao Dai military groups (including several factions that split from the original hierarchy) in the Indochina wars was very significant, at least from the point of view of the U.S. and, earlier, Japan; for example see Trinh Minh The. This kind of thing definitely deserves a mention in the article, or possibly a separate article (it's not directly related to the religion as a religion - but kind of analogous to the way the Muslim conquest of North Africa was a key part of the early history of Islam). But as I don't have the sources, I'm afraid of getting it wrong. --—Hob←Talk 17:17, 2004 Aug 13 (UTC)

  • The Cao Dai had been pro-Japanese during the 40's, supportive of the Nguyen pretender Cuong De before the August Revolution. They were allowed to rule their own area in return for a nominal support of the regime of former Emperor Bao Dai in the early 50's. This was the time they built up their private army. When U.S. was pushing Ngo Dinh Diem for president, Edward Lansdale bribed the Cao Dai general to betray the religion and the Pope had to flee into Cambodia. Later Diem, who was a Catholic intolerant of other religions, tried to wipe out the Cao Dai. After his government was collapsed, they started to rebuild and were used as counter-insurgent group by the American military. After the Communists took over they put strict controls on the Cao Dai, they have had no pope since then, but are ruled by pro-Communist council. NguyenHue 08:57, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)NguyenHue
NguyenHue, calling Cuong De a "Nguyen pretender" is a bit harsh -- even offensive -- don't you think? What is your source? Encyclopedia Britannica says:
"As a direct descendant of the emperor Gia Long, Cuong De had a legitimate claim to the throne of Vietnam but was excluded by the French, who held a protectorate over the country." cann0tsay 22:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Links

The link to cardinal is (as one would expect) a link to a disambiguation page. Should it point to cardinal (Catholicism)? Michael Hardy 23:49, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons for changing Le Anh-Huy's 07:08, 2 October 2005 revision

Cao means "high" and Đài means "raised place, platform." Although it is true that the religion relied on human mediums or channelers to communicate with God during sacred ceremonies, Le Anh-Huy, where did you get "supreme channel" from?

The terms, "a supreme God," or, "Cao Dai Supreme God," imply there may be other kinds or types of supreme God. I think the phrase, "God, the creator of the universe," leaves little room for ambiguity.

Mr. Ngô Văn Chiêu is not the founder of Caodaiism. He may be credited as the founder of the Chiếu Minh sect of Caodaiism. However, to place the founding of Caodaiism upon his shoulders is analogous to saying Saint Peter founded Christianity. Furthermore, according to the Tay Ninh Holy See, Mr. Chiêu committed the unpardonable sin of disobedience to God (see the discussion below: How many Cao Dai Popes (Popes of Vietnam) have there been?).

Christianity was based on the teachings of Jesus Christ; Confucianism was the teachings of Confucius (Kong-Fu-Zi); Taoism was the teachings of Lao-Zi. Arguably, these teachers were men who walked the earth. Therefore, it is easy to give them credits. On the other hand, God, to many, is an intangible idea. So, when Caodaiists claim that the Creator himself is their teacher, might it be that they are refuted, and, instead, an actual person is named as the mastermind behind their movement?

From day one, Caodaiists are taught that in this Great Religion of The Third Period of Revelation and Salvation (Đại Đạo Tam Kỳ Phổ Độ), God is not using a middleman like the other times. This time, He is at the helm. cann0tsay 07:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Schism

Not too many non-Caodaiists are aware that Caodaiism also suffers from schism like other religions. Some of the sects that have split from the Tay Ninh Holy See (Tòa Thánh Tây Ninh) are, Chiếu Minh, Bến Tre and Đà Nẵng. cann0tsay 07:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

In the Thánh Ngôn Hiệp Tuyển (TNHT), Caodaiism's equivalent to the Bible, Đức Cao Đài (God) has stated that throughout the ages, He has allowed false prophets to mislead and test the strength of character of his children. This Third Period is no different. He has allowed false prophets to use His name, but they cannot sit in his seat at the Tay Ninh Holy See. This, my mother recalled, was the reason why my grandfather strictly warned her and my uncle to refrain from attending seance ceremonies outside the Tay Ninh Holy See, no matter how interesting or alluring they seem. cann0tsay 08:11, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I estimate that the number of Caodaiist sects to be between thirty to fifty. Each believe they are worshiping the true Cao Dai, following the right path. On the surface, they look similar, but look closer and one will see contrary views along with different symbolisms. For instance, some websites list numerous historical figures as Cao Dai saints, including (gasp!) Vladimir Lenin. The Tay Ninh Holy See does not recognize Lenin as a saint. Superficial articles on Caodaiism that homogenizes all the Cao Dai sects just lead to further misinformation.

I can only point out that in the TNHT text, the Tay Ninh Holy See was repeatly emphasized as the only place where Đức Cao Đài and other venerable spirits post their teachings. cann0tsay 22:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] lol?

7 o 8 millions caodaist? are you kidding me? Where do you get that number from?

http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_99.html#688
But most sources there say 2 millions.
Pjacobi 09:21, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How many Cao Dai Popes (Popes of Vietnam) have there been?

Does anyone know how many Popes of Vietnam there have been? - (Aidan Work 05:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC))

Hi Aidan Work, I am a Caodaiist of the Tay Ninh Holy See. I say that up front because Caodaiists from other sects, particularly the one established by Mr. Ngô Văn Chiêu, called Chiếu Minh, may or may not agree with the following account.
First, some background info.
The Earthly Head of Caodaiism is called "Giáo Tông," which literally means leader or head of a religious group. Translators noticed similarities between the structural hierarchy of Caodaiism and the Catholic Church, and, for lack of better words or whatever reasons, borrowed terminologies such as Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, Priest, etc. In practice, Caodaiism has many more ranks and titles of which there are no official English translation as of yet. Also, the actual Vietnamese term for Pope, as in The Catholic Pope, is "Giáo Hoàng."
To a Caodaiist, the existence of God the Father in the invisible world is accepted as readily and plainly as the flesh and blood father in the visible world. The idea of direct communication with the Heavenly Father is as normal as talking on the phone or sending e-mails.
God, Đức Cao Đài, took great pain and care in initiating and developing a relationship with his first disciples. In the begining, He was their friend, and then, their teacher. Months would pass until finally, he revealed himself to them on Christmas day, the birthday of His begotten Son.
Why did God not tell them who he was right away? In my humble opionion, only a false prophet would immediately identify himself as God.
The fact is, even after He has given them his official title, Cao Đài Tiên Ông Đại Bồ Tát Ma-ha-tát, to be used in the New Religion, and explained the symbolism behind it, through out his subsequent messages, He addressed himself as Teacher.
Later, seance sessions were more efficient and nothing short of amazing. While in trance, the channelers holding a "basket and beak" would write at hyper speed. What was written in minutes would take hours or days to copy.
Đức Cao Đài recruited twelve disciples. It is no coincidence that Jesus also had twelve disciples. Twelve is an important number that requires another discussion. As with Jesus, these men were not randomly selected. Instead, they were entities from Heaven, sent down to Earth to carry out God's plan.
Incarnation to the world had wiped their minds from past memories, but the "permanent recorder" component -- that is a part of every living being -- makes them receptive to God. However, there are no guarantees because all sentient beings have free will. It is said that many entities have come down to Earth from Heaven with the intention of doing God's will and help mankind rejoin the Father, but the lure of the world has kept them in the endless cycle of birth-death-rebirth. The heavenly entity that had incarnated as Ngô Văn Chiêu was no exception.
Caodaiism has two papal positions -- one in Heaven and one on Earth. The spirit that had once incarnated as the great Chinese poet Li Bai (Li Po) is the Heavenly Pope. Ngô Văn Chiêu would be the Earthly Pope. At least, that was the plan.
I think all the sects agree, more or less, with the above information. The following discussion on Mr. Chieu may arouse disagreements.
When reminded of his assignment, Mr. Chieu refused God three times, even after he had been granted all the signs and proofs that he had requested. Exasperated, God withdrew the offer. The penalty for denying God is excommunication. As the ultimate loving father, God did not have the heart to hand out such a harsh sentence. But the stalwart Heavenly Pope, Li Bai, insisted the punishment be carried out, or else, the New Religion would falter.
This was a hard blow to the other disciples, who love and respect Mr. Chieu like an elder brother. Mr. Chieu was not involved with the Tay Ninh Holy See. He was remorseful later, but it was too late. Even so, he could have looked to Tay Ninh for spiritual guidance. Instead, he had accepted another entity claiming to be Cao Dai, and formed the Chiếu Minh sect of Caodaiism.
God handed the papal responsibilities to the Venerable Le Van Trung, who admirably performed his duties as Acting Pope for eight years, from 1926 to 1934, when he disincarnated. Afterward, Venerable Phạm Công Tắc, who was also the Maintainer of the Laws/Dharma, assumed the role. It was during his time as Acting Pope that the Holy See was completed and membership grew from a few hundred thousands to around two million.
There has not been an Earthly Pope since Ven. Pham Cong Tac. The Heavenly Pope Li Bai, however, is ever present.cann0tsay 21:09, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Current State of Caodaiism

Almost everyone in the Free World know that many of the inalienable rights we enjoy and take for granted do not exist in Vietnam, China, North Korea, Russia and a few other countries. Among those rights is religious freedom.

Caodaiism and other religions in Vietnam are under the control of Vietnam's government. The Tay Ninh Holy See is ruled by a council that the government had inserted. The current situation may look bleak but Caodaiists are not worried. This is not the first time Caodaiists have faced oppression. Caodai temples, called Thánh Thất, are being built all over the world and subsequent generations of bilingual Caodaiists will clarify and shed light on this interesting, and, in my humble opinion, misunderstood religion. cann0tsay 13:34, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Victor Hugo a saint

Victor Hugo is a saint in this church, really?--68.218.250.200 09:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Yep, he sure is. Victor Hugo is one of the many incarnations of a Sage. cann0tsay 06:58, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

TRUE?

"Although various sects of Caodaiism claim to have received messages from numerous spiritual entities, the Tây Ninh Holy See acknowledges significantly fewer. Inside the Holy See is a painting depicting the Three Saints [1] signing a covenant between God and mankind. From left to right, they are: Sun Yat-sen, Victor Hugo and Nguyễn Bỉnh Khiêm."

The Victor Hugo from "los miserables"? That Hugo? Then, there must be a mentino an explanation on his wikipage...

-GTB 7:50 A 18/10/2006

Seriously, nobody's trying to question your beliefs here, but WHY is Victor Hugo SPECIFICALLY an incarnation of a sage?

I'll give you a Cao Dai link, see this, that discusses the issue a bit. It says they believe Hugo was "a prophet" and insists they don't worship or deify him. Some Cao Dai adherents seem not entirely sure how to explain it, but say he was in "spiritual contact" and was very compassionate.(PBS interview) Another source says he is to represent the French[1], chosen as he was anti-imperialist, while the other two represent China and Vietnam. These are three nations that ruled/influenced Vietnam.--T. Anthony 16:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hayesian Movement

Could someone elaborate on the "Hayesian Movement" in Caodaiism? When and where did it started. How many followers? cann0tsay 15:14, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misconstrued as unfair bias

In the last paragraph of the section "Religious Constitution and Organization", it is said "However, the fact that ordained women may attain ranks only up to cardinal but not Pope may be misconstrued as unfair bias.". That seems to be a POV.

If the word "misconstrue" is changed to "construe", the POV disappears, I think. "Misconstrue" implies error but "construe" does not imply lack of error.

I agree. Thanks. cann0tsay 19:33, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sacred Teachings (in Vietnamese)

Deleted the Hugo-Rosicrucian reference, which may be more suitable on the Victor Hugo page; this connection would be relevant here had Caodai texts mentioned it.) (cur) (last) 06:11, 11 November 2006 Cann0tsay (Talk | contribs)

Thanks. I was not sure at the time if this reference should be stated, since it is not a reference to any physical organization...
The 'Eye of Providence', commonly interpreted as representing the eye of God keeping watch on humankind.

(→Origin of God and the universe - Reverted to Big Bang (from a lesser known Tay Ninh Holy See text describing the origin of the universe) and God (see discussion page).)

May you please state which text? I did not find it through a yet superficial look into Cao Dai sites at the bottom of the article.
Are you sure it is not a later i n t e r p r e t a t i o n of original Cao Dai teachings? (As it happened in the Catholic Church in the 1950's, applying the cosmological[nonesense, my pov] theory of Big bang, from the extremely flawed(?) standard model of physics, to the Genesis[Bible]). Pls. see also emanationism, planes of existence (there is a section at this article devoted to this issue) and related articles. Also a look into the work of the physicist Harold Aspden, or into the work of astrophysicist Nikolai Kozyrev may be valuable. Best regards.
The Tay Ninh Holy See's library is a repository of all the teachings from God and other revered entities such as Venerable Tac Cong Pham (Phạm Công Tắc) before and after his disincarnation. When the Communist took over Vietnam in 1975, they curtailed relgious practices severely as they exerted their control. There had been two "accidental" fires in the Tay Ninh Holy See archives. As a matter of preservation, a few pre-1975 Caodai officials, in secret, made duplicates of religious texts and stored them in safe locations.
The adept who provided the article on the origin of the universe is Khuyen Minh Le, whose religious post is Cải Trạng (Cải Trạng LÊ MINH KHUYÊN). Mr. Khuyen is special in that while some Caodai officials have accepted promotions in rank from the post-1975 Vietnamese government, Mr. Khuyen still retained his pre-1975 position.
The following is an article, in Vietnamese, from Venerable Tac Cong Pham, quoting God, and answering the age old question of where we came from. Below it, I will do my best to translate. cann0tsay 16:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your detailed explanation; the translation, in order to provide insight into the Cao Dai teachings related to cosmology, would be welcome. Best regards. --Lusitanian 23:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Bài Thuyết Đạo của Đức Hộ Pháp

(Paragraph 1)

Kể từ Thái Cực, Lưỡng Nghi, ba mươi sáu từng Trời (36) Chín từng Cửu Thiên Khai Hóa. Nhứt mạch Đẳng Tinh-Vi, Thập Phương Chư Phật, Vạn-Chưởng Thế Giái, Đại Thiên Thế Giái, Tam Thiên Thế Giái, Tứ Đại Bộ Châu, Thất Thập Nhị Địa Cầu và chư Động Phủ Phật, Thánh, Tiên cư ngụ.

(Paragraph 2)

Thưa chư Hiền-huynh, Hiền-tỷ, Tôi xin nhắc ngày giờ mới khai Đàn tại Cần Thơ, có mấy vị Đồ Nho hầu Đàn xin Bạch THẦY như vầy: xin THẦY từ bi giải cho chúng con rõ hình thức quả Càn Khôn Vũ Trụ sao mà con thường nghe mấy vị Đồ Nho bàn cải với nhau, mỗi mỗi không in một lý. Người thì nói TRỜI lớn, người thì nói PHẬT lớn, còn trong sách Tam-Tự Kinh chú giải thì Đức Thánh nói Tam Thập Tam Thiên, nên phần nhiều bình luận phân-phân bất nhứt. Con không rõ thế nào là đúng. Xin THẦY từ bi xá lỗi.

(Paragraph 3)

THẦY ĐÁP: Các con có học rộng, nhưng cái rộng còn khuyết điểm muôn phần. Nơi Thế Giái hữu hình hiện tượng trước mặt mà con chưa hiểu đặng, huống hồ gì thấu đáo sư vô hình, vì huyền diệu Thiêng Liêng mà người không học Đạo dễ gì hiểu đặng. Những bậc Thánh trước Hiền xưa ra công tham khảo cùn đời, mãn kiếp còn chưa vén nổi cái màng bí mật của Đấng Tạo Hóa đón ngăn, huống chi người thường nhơn luận bàn làm sao cho suốt lý.

(Paragraph 4)

Kể từ khi THẦY sai Bàn Cổ xuống thế mở mang địa cầu nầy, nhơn-loại thuở đó còn mang hình tượng Thiêng Liêng chưa biết mặc áo quần, còn ở nơi hang hố chưa có nhà cửa, chưa có văn tự. Từ đó về sau mấy ngàn năm đến đời Ngũ Đế, họ Phục Hi, họ thường hết tâm theo quái điểu tích (tầm dấu chân chim) chế ra văn tự để mà ghi nhớ. Từ đó về sau mới có lịch-sữ, nên sách Nho có câu:

cái cái thiên nhị chi dân,
sào cư huyệt sữ nhụ mao ẩm huyết,
đồng nhi các vĩ kỳ hàn,
ẩm cư vĩ thị kỳ thử.

Nên lúc đó văn tự bất quá nghe truyền ngôn độ chừng rồi chép bướng, hỏi vậy lấy đâu làm bằng chứng. Ấy là nói tích ở Thế gian nầy còn chưa rõ, còn luận qua Thế-giới khác, như nhắm mắt mò kim đáy biển, hay bầy kiến tầm đường lên Núi Tu-Di, thì chẳng khác sự học thuyết của người mài kiếm dưới bóng trăng, ếch nằm đáy giếng, cũng có lắm người gọi mình là hay giỏi, dẫn người đi lạc bước sai đường. Thân mình mù-quáng mà chưa hay, còn tài khôn dắt thêm kẻ tối đui thì làm sao khỏi lọt vào đám chông gai cùng sa hầm sa hố … Cười …

(Paragraph 5)

"Nếu người nào muốn học hỏi thì THẦY cũng rộng giãng dạy, còn kẻ nào không chịu học, sau đừng đổ cho Phật giã vô ngôn."

(Paragraph 6)

Vậy trước khi chưa phân Trời Đất, khí Hư Vô bao quát Càn Khôn sáng soi đầy Vũ Trụ. Đó là một cái trung tâm điểm tức là ĐẠO, rồi ĐẠO ấy mới sanh Thái Cực. Hồng mông sơ khởi huyền-huyền hạo-hạo, khối lại thành ngôi Thái Cực rất đầm ấm lưng chừng. Trong đó toàn là một khối, đúng mấy muôn năm đùng nổ ra một tiếng dường như Thiên khuynh, địa-phúc, thì đã có THầY ngự trong ngôi Thái-Cực. Rồi đó có một tầng DƯƠNG một tầng ÂM gác chồng nhau thành hình chữ thập ló ra bốn cánh, kể là lưỡng nghi sanh tứ tượng, chữ thập mới dần-dần quanh lộn chạy lăn tròn như chong-chống. Giăng tủa ra muôn ngàn quả tinh cầu Thế giái, chữ Thập ấy dưới có bốn cánh bóng kêu là tứ Âm, tứ Dương tác thành Bát-quái là: CÀN, KHẨM, CẤN, CHẤN, TỐN, LY, KHÔN, ĐOÀI. Bát-quái mới biến hóa vô cùng phân định ngũ-hành, Càn Khôn muôn vật, Thái Cực sanh lưỡng nghi tức là Tam Thiên Vị (3 ngôi Trời) dưới ba ngôi ấy có Tam-Thập Tam Thiên (33 từng Trời) cộnh với ba ngôi trên là 36 từng… Nên kiêu là Tam Thập Lục Thiên. Trong mỗi từng Thầy chia chơn linh có một vị Đại-La Thiên-Đế Chưởng-Quản. Chỗ THẦY ngự là nơi Bạch-Ngọc Kinh là Kinh-Thành toàn là ngọc trắng rộng cao vọi-vọi. Ngoài là Huỳnh-Kim-Khuyết, cửa ngỏ bằng vàng cực kỳ mỹ lệ, dưới ba mươi sáu tầng Trời, còn một tầng kế Nhứt Mạch Đẳng Tinh-Vi gọi là cảnh Niết-Bàn. Chín tầng nữa gọi là Cửa-Thiên Khai-Hóa, tức là chín phương Trời cộng với Niết-Bàn là mười, gọi là Thập-phương Chư Phật. Gọi chín phương Trời mười phương Phật là do nơi đó.”

(Paragraph 7)

“Trong cõi Niết-Bàn là chư Phật ngự: Phật-Tổ ngự nơi hướng Tây, Quan-Âm ngự hướng Nam, mỗi từng đều có sơn xuyên hà hải, tứ phương, bát hướng liên Đài hằng hà sa số Phật. Còn hai chữ Như-Lai là Cảnh Phật chớ không phải là danh Phật. Nên trong Kinh có câu: “Bổn Giái Vị Như Kim Giái Như Lai” còn Bồ-Đề là chỗ Phật ngự, Phạm-Môn là cửa Phật, Bĩ-Ngạn là Đất Phật, Huỳnh-Kim Bố-Địa là vàng rồng đầy đất, còn chỗ Nam-Hải ngạn thượng là Quan-Âm ngự gần bờ biển Nam nơi cảnh Phật, chớ không phải hướng Nam như cảnh phàm. Đó là còn ở thượng từng không-khí hay là hư-vô chi-khí, rồi kế đó có Đại-Thiên Thế-Giái là Thế-Giái rất lớn có mấy triệu tinh-cầu bao trùm cả nơi mấy Thế-Giái đó. Kế đó là Thượng-Phương Thế-Giái đó là chỗ Đức TâY VƯƠNG MẫU ngự nơi Cung Diêu Trì, gần đó có vườn Ngạn-Uyển Bàn-Đào, Ngũ-Nhạc Bồng-Lai Nhược-Thũy. Còn các Đấng Thiêng-Liêng nam nữ hằng hà sa số lầu Đài Cung Điện toàn bằng Ngọc-Ngà Châu-Báu, Hổ-Phách San-Hô, như lục, Thiên-Ngân-Cung Tử-Phủ Thánh-Đế Điện-Đài Lãng-Phóng trong cảnh nhị châu Chơn-Võ, Nơi Linh-Tiêu-Điện là chỗ chư TIÊN nhóm hội, có Ngọc-Vệ Kim-Nương, giao-lê quả-táo toàn là kim-dược nhẹ-nhàng cũng Kim-Đơn Đề-Hồ, Huỳnh-Tương, trường-sanh chi tử, lò rượu trường-sanh dùng đặng sống hoài không chết.”

(Paragraph 8)

Kế đó là Trung-Phương Thế-Giái cũng là nơi cung Điện của THẦN, TIÊN, Nhơn-Tiên, Quỉ-Tiên, các bậc Quần-Tiên. Kế đó là Hạ-Từng Thế-Giái, Tam-Thiên Thế-Giái, ba ngàn quả Tinh-Cầu là Địa-Cầu Số 1 cho đến Địa-Cầu các con ở là Địa-Cầu 68. Từ hồi có Địa-Cầu nầy đến nay kể ra đặng: 12 MUÔN, CHÍN NGÀN, SÁU TRĂM NĂM. Dưới các con còn bốn Địa-Cầu nữa, còn U-Minh chưa có loài người kêu bằng U-MINH-GIỚI, nên từng Thế-Giới Địa Cầu đều có các đẳng nhơn-loại.”

(Paragraph 9)

Nên chi có điều khác nhau là do không-khí nặng nhẹ cùng tùy theo công-quả của mỗi Tinh-Cầu cách nhau từ một MUÔN cho đến mười MUÔN dặm, luôn-luôn xây tròn giáp một Vòng là 360 ngày gọi là một NĂM. Nơi Địa-Cầu cũng có Sơn-Xuyên Hà-Hải như: Thái-Bình Dương, Đại-Tây Dương, Bạch-Hải, Hắc-Hải, Hồng-Hải chỗ trắng, chỗ đen, chỗ xanh, chỗ đỏ, bề sâu có chỗ tới 8,000 ngàn thước, chỗ 3,000 thước, chỗ 2,000 thước không đều nhau. Còn núi Tu-Di cao độ phỏng 8,000 thước. Núi nhiều chỗ thấp, chỗ cao không đồng. Phong Thũy mùa tuyết nóng nực không đồng, như mùa nắng đây, chỗ khác lại mưa, xứ nóng nực, xứ lạnh lùng, như ngày đêm trong Lục-Địa có 24 giờ, còn người ở Bắc-Băng Dương sáu tháng tối, sáu tháng sáng, quanh năm nước đặc như giá, chỗ chua, chỗ mặn, chỗ ngọt không đều. Còn màu da của người, nào là da trắng, da đen, da vàng, da đỏ. Nước thì lớn cao đồ-sộ, nước thì lùn thấp nhỏ con. Dân số trên Toàn-Cầu phỏng định 2 tỷ 300 triệu sanh-sanh tử-tử không ngừng. Điểu thú côn trùng cũng đều khác lạ như chim Đại-bàng rất lớn lần-lần nhỏ như chim Sắc chim Sâu. Loài Cá như cá Ông, Cá Mập, Cá Sà, Cá Sấu, rồi nhỏ lần Cá Bạc-Mạ, Cá Trắng. Loài thú như Tượng-Voi, rồi tới những loài Nhiếm-Mang, Chuột, Bọ. Chính những loài cầm-thú suốt đời ta chưa còn hiểu biết hết lựa là đến việc cao-siêu, nếu ta không học hỏi các Đấng vô-hình thì ta phải chịu tối tăm mù-mịch không mong gì đoạt thấu huyền-vi mà siêu Phàm nhập Thánh. Hễ ta học nhiều chừng nào ta sẽ thấy dốt nhiều chừng nấy.

(Paragraph 10)

Vậy chư Huyền-Huynh, Hiền-Tỷ, ta phải gia tâm sưu-tầm cho hoạt-bát, nếu ỷ lại sự biết của mình là đủ thì dạ-thảo bích-châu, đường muôn dặm bóng xế chiều không rán bước ắt là phải trể.

SAO Y NGUYÊN VĂN TÒA-THÁNH, ngày 20 tháng 6 năm BÍNH-TÝ (dl.03.8.1996)

Cải Trạng LÊ MINH KHUYÊN


[edit] Sacred Teachings (translated)

...Translation begins...

Sermon from Venerable Tac Cong Pham

(Paragraph 1)


(Paragraph 2)


(Paragraph 3)

TEACHER REPLIES: My children, you are well educated, but your education is vastly incomplete. The visible world is right in front of you yet you do not fully understand it, how can you expect to comprehend the invisible world, the Divine inner workings that elude those who do not study Tao. If previous saints and sages who have devoted their lives in study cannot unveil the secrets of the Creator, then how can mere mortals discuss among themselves and uncover the ultimate truth?

(Paragraph 4)


(Paragraph 5)


(Paragraph 6)


(Paragraph 7)


(Paragraph 8)


(Paragraph 9)


(Paragraph 10)


SAO Y NGUYÊN VĂN HOLY SEE, 20 JUNE year BÍNH-TÝ (dl.03.8.1996)

Cải Trạng LÊ MINH KHUYÊN


...Translation ends...

[edit] The Visible and Invisible Worlds

TEACHER REPLIES: My children, you are well educated, but your education is vastly incomplete. (...) then how can mere mortals discuss among themselves and uncover the ultimate truth?

A PUPIL(?) CRIES: Indeed we are not able, yet. But then, why do we miserable mortals, acquainted to some degree within ourselves with this profound words of Yours, continue to assume that the "ultimate truth" has been uncovered by the intellectual pride of those who have imposed to the world a materialist-reducionist view of the universe of God; such limited view which "has done such terrible damage to almost every aspect of life on this planet"? When will we all be able to reach a more aethereal truth?
A POET EVOKES:
Makes you reward, baron, the Sapience
Supreme of, with the corporal eyes
see what can not the vain science
of the wrong and miserable mortals
-- Luís Vaz de Camões in The Lusiads: Canto X
--195.23.163.5 (talk) 00:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit]  ???

Someone should correct the first/second period lists; not sure what they would look like if correct, but they must include the three saints mentioned at the end.

[edit] Cut and paste move

Esimal recently tried to move this page to Caodaism via cut and paste. This is not the proper way to do a move, it destroys page history. It has been reverted back to this location. To do a proper move, please see WP:MOVE.--Cúchullain t/c 22:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Move again

I don't think there is consensus to change the name of the page (though props for doing the move properly this time). I think consensus should be gathered first, via requested moves.--Cúchullain t/c 23:30, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Caodaism is the proper Western name. --Esimal (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
According to what? Cao Dai looks much more prominent. At any rate, the page has been at Cao Dai for long enough that consensus for the change ought to be gathered.--Cúchullain t/c 23:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)