Talk:Canadian Red Ensign

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canada Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada and related WikiProjects, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Canada-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project member page, to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the importance scale.
Heraldry and Vexillology Portal

Canadian Red Ensign is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (FAQ).

MUCH better. Good work.A2Kafir 13:54, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Minor point: in this sentence: "Ironically, it is perhaps least popular in Quebec not because of any nostalgia for the red ensign but because it has become a symbol of Canadian federalism and is thus rejected by Quebec nationalists who fly the fleur-de-lis based flag of Quebec." Is the first "it" referring to the Maple Leaf flag? It seems to. Might rework a bit to make that clear.A2Kafir 13:57, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] See Talk:Red Ensign

For discussion about whether information about far-right and neo-Nazi groups and the Canadian Red Ensign should be included or excluded, see Talk:Red Ensign. Samaritan 15:31, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Thank you for moving "it" off the front page

Hello,

Thank you very much for moving the "said Facist links" off the front page of Wikipedia's Red Ensign area. I am very happy that "it" is now not the first thing you see.

Additional Information Page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Red_Ensign


Most supporters of the Canadian Red Ensign, however, reject attempts by white supremacists to co-opt the symbol and decry attempts to associate the Canadian Red Ensign with racist views.


Thank you so much for saying that very clearly. I can not thank you, and Wikipedia enough. The page which you have added, in my opinion, is excellent. It presents all the facts, within their context, in a fair balanced, and informative fashion. In my opinion I feel that you have done a great service to the history of the Red Ensign, and Wikipedia. Thank you again for this kind, fair, balanced, and very professional encyclopedia entry.



Thank you very much indeed.


Sincerely,

ArmChairVexillologistDonArmchairVexillologistDon 17:20, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

As an American, I believe there should be a holiday in Canada that commemorates the Red Ensign. While I believe the current flag is great and truly Canadian, but I think the Canadian Red Ensign is a very beautiful flag. Do you agree? I just don't understand why some people in Canada tried so hard to forget that flag. It's time for Canadians in Canada to give respect to their former flag.


Hello,


I completely agree with you. In English-Canada their should be holiday called Red Ensign Day. The "old Red Ensign" should be honoured. The Red (and Blue Ensign) is the basis of All UK Commonwealth Flags. As well, the War of Independence (1775-1783 AD) began,the 13 Colonies (that broke away from the 19 Colonies) used it has the (UNOFFICAL) "First American Flag" in the Grand Union Flag (1775-1777 AD).

http://flagspot.net/images/u/us-gu.gif

http://flagspot.net/flags/us-gu.html

http://flagspot.net/flags/us^rv.html


19 Colonies (1763-1775 AD)

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/british_colonies_1763-76.jpg


4 Northern Loyalist Colonies (became British-Canada)

http://flagspot.net/images/g/gb-budge.gif

(Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Quebec, Newfoundland)



13 Colonies that won Independence (formed the United States of America)

http://flagspot.net/images/u/us-gu.gif

(later OFFICAL Flags of 1777 AD)

"13 Star: Staggered"

http://flagspot.net/images/u/us-1777.gif

"13 Star: Circular"

http://flagspot.net/images/u/us-1777b.gif



2 Southern Loyalist Colonies (re-united with USA (1800-1819 AD))

http://flagspot.net/images/g/gb-budge.gif

(West Florida, East Florida)


ArmchairVexillologistDonArmchairVexillologistDon 20:41, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)


[edit] FAO SimonP

SimonP, why did you revert the edit of 209.153.195.50?


[edit] FAO HistoryBA

Firstly, I didn't change it to a "British spelling". I was simply changing it back to the original spelling in the article, please don't blatantly lie.

Secondly, I was about to instinctively change the "affiliated to Paul Fromm" to "affiliated with Paul Fromm" as you did, but I consulted a dictionary first. Apparently, both "with" and "to" are acceptable, although dictionaries today are not really authorities on correct writing. I decided to defer to the original writer's judgement as I thought it might be significant. I thought maybe the original writer (AndyL) was implying that rather than being affiliated with Paul Fromm on an equal and level footing, they were affiliated to him, in that they defended and supported him, and looked up to him as the "head guy" (the Supreme Supremacist, if you will) for leadership. Of course, only AndyL knows of his intentions, and unless and until he comments, I suppose we can't be sure.

[edit] Private usage in Ontario/racist?

I am American, but with Canadian roots on my father's side, and I go to Ontario quite a bit. I've seen the Canadian Red Ensign flown quite a bit by private individuals, as well as the former RN/RCN White Ensign and RCAF Ensign (I would assume the latter two are flown mostly by veterans of the pre-unified RCN and RCAF). I also see the Union Jack now and then. This is interesting as the provincial flag of Ontario (which I also see not infrequently flown by itself, without the Canadian Flag, by private individuals) is the Red Ensign modified with the Ontario coat of arms replacing the Canadian coat of arms. I've seen it as recently as the late summer of 2005 before boarding the ferry at Sombra, Ont. to go back to the US. A residence near the border station was flying it.

It's incomprehensible to me that the Red Ensign would be associated with racism in the way that the Confederate battle flag is here in the US. Many identify the Confederate flag with slavery. My non-Canadian guess would be that the worst the Red Ensign could be associated with would be "British colonialism" by Quebecois...but the Red Ensign's coat of arms include three fleurs-de-lys to represent Canada's French heritage, so I don't get it.--MarshallStack 20:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Blue Ensign usage?

I find the Canadian Blue Ensign to be a very attractive flag. I know that pre-1965 it was used as a Jack by RCN vessels and flown by Canadian merchant vessels, but was it ever under serious consideration as an "official" national flag? I know this is a moot point since Canada has had the Maple Leaf as its flag for 40 years now but I'm just thinking "what if", especially since this would have put Canada in line with other independent Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand in terms of red/blue ensign usage.--MarshallStack 02:01, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Use of vexilogical terms to describe flags...

I think it is stupid. The average Wikipedia reader has no knowledge of these terms. Jargon and profession-specific terms should be used as sparingly as possible. Remember who your readers are! They arent vexiologists!

[edit] supporters reject white supremacists

I deleted the sentence "Most supporters of the Canadian Red Ensign, however, reject attempts by white supremacists to co-opt the symbol and decry attempts to associate the Canadian Red Ensign with racist views." I suspect that most people don't actually know that Frumm and others White supremacists actually are trying to appropriate the Red Ensign in this way. If they did, they'd surely reject it. But that doesn't mean it's worth noting here. Bucketsofg✐

Yes, that's probly true. I've flown the Red Ensign (of Ontario) on occasion, but Wikipedia is the only place I've ever heard of anyone equating it with racist groups. WilyD 13:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)