Talk:Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament
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[edit] Critisism of CND
I think you [the WikiProject Anti-war] should make an effort to list the anti-anti-war point of view. i.e. the case for deterrance, the funding of the CND etc by the Soviets, the fact that many people think that CND prolonged the cold war by making the old USSR think that there was a chance that the West would stop opposing them militarialy etc. MG 17/11/2005 12:05 (BST)
- This project seeks to be neither pro or anti anti-war, rather it seeks to help bring an accurate NPOV picture the anti-war movements to wikipedia. In orrder to do that critisisms of anti-war arguments and organisations should of course be added. If you feel that the project is currently leaning to far towards a positive potrayal of certian groups then feel free to join and help us achive a neutral balance. One thing to remember is that wikipedia is not a place for orriginal reaserch so critisms should generally come from referanced sourses.--JK the unwise 15:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough, and good luck. I wish I had the time and knowledge to assist. MG 17/11/05 16:45 BST
CND actually won a legal case against the Youth Wing of the Conservative Party for claiming that it was funded by the Soviet Union (see Bruce Kent's Autobiography), similar accusations were made by people within the Conservative Party at the time (and some still) as well as the Coalition for Peace through security. As far as I'm aware allegations of CND being funded by the Soviet Union were never substantiated, it certainly had communist members but they only made up around 4% of the membership acccording to studies. Who claimed that CND prolongued the Cold War, it seems rather odd as there were parallel movements in Germany and Holland in particular. I'll do some more work on it. Sjeraj 09:22, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe this would be good stuff to add to the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament page. I would suggest under the section heading critisms something along the line of; "CND have been critised for alegingly reciving financial support from the soviet union during the Cold war. However, these allegations have never been substantiated. CND won a legal case against the Youth Wing of the Conservative Party in ???? for claiming that it was funded by the Soviet Union". I will copy this discussion to the CND talk page.--JK the unwise 18:42, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
- I think accusations and criticisms should be considered separately. Whilst one can criticise unilateral nuclear disarmament as a policy and the tactics employed by CND, reasoned criticism cannot be ascribed the same importance as defamatory allegations which are historical more than anything else. I think that CND should be expanded so as to include a greater explanation of its current structures and a more comprehensive history (including accusations). Sjeraj 11:09, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
To clarify, CND won a case for defamation against the Federation of Conservative Students who had claimed in a leaflet that one of CND's elected officers, Dan Smith was a communist. The Federation of Conservative Students settled on the second day of the trial - they paid CND's legal costs, damages and apologised. See Kent, Bruce - Undiscovered Ends, pp. 185-6.
As regards funding from the Soviet Union, Bruce Kent publicly offered a prize of £100 to anyone who could provide evidence that CND was funded by the Soviet Union - this was never claimed. See Kent, Bruce - Op. Cited, p.180. Sjeraj 12:44, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Whether they were funded by the Soviet Union or not, there is certainly a case to be made that CND is in bed with the far left. I'm no fan of nuclear weapons, but I certainly see CND as a socialist organisation and could never support it on those grounds.Mickalos 01:16, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- These people are plainly out to lunch. They have criticized possible placement of a ballistic missile defense system in the UK warning that "the system could enable the US to attack other countries without fear of retaliation." This completely ignores the lessons learned from the Cold War, and is little more than a thin veneer for anti-Americanism and anti-Westernism. North Korea and Iran with nuclear weapons to devastate the West, I suppose that's ok with the CND, as long as the West is unable to defend its citizens from megadeaths and obliterated cities. If they were truly anti-war, they'd support systems to protect us from attacks. Instead, they're anti-war if it's for pro-Western aims, but will stand aside and let terror States have free rein over everyone else. - MSTCrow 22:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] General Secretary lineage inquiry.
Who succeeded Gary Lefley as the general secretary for the CND? --Folajimi 04:51, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- UK employment law states that Lefley cannot be made redundant (as he was, technically) if his post remained in existence. There have been no General Secretaries since his departure. --Handelaar 01:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] CND Deaths
How about the mention of people who have died during CND publicity stunts eg. the guy who tried to stop a trident submarine and got pulled underwater.
- Find a reference for it in the news and try and work it in maybe...?Sjeraj 20:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
well its true ive got family working on the base.sorry miss read what you wrote. im not a good writer so i was hoping to just provide information and positive critisism.
I've searched around the internet a bit and cannot find a reference to a death of a protestor at Faslane. Is it possible that the incident happened in the mid 90s after the launch of the first Trident Sub in 1994 (which would explain it not being on the internet)? Sjeraj 07:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
well from what i know, they went out on a boat to stop the sub and well subs dont stop for a reason and one of them got pulled under the boat most probably the subs wake affected their smaller boat.
- Duncan Blinkhorn jumped into the dock during the naming ceremony for HMS Vanguard, to much press coverage (they made a big deal about Princess Diana being mere hundreds of feet away from a protestor). Duncan made it out again just fine, though if memory serves he was nicked. I suspect our anonymous questioner may have heard this third-hand? Handelaar 02:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] First Wave
I've added to the section on the First Wave and when I have time I'd like to add more. I have copies of "The Disarmers" by Christopher Driver (1964) which has a lot of detail on this period, and "The CND Story" edited by John Minnion and Philip Bolsover (1983). However, I don't think the First Wave should over-balance the Second Wave, and I'd be glad if other editors would add to that, as I'm less familiar with it.
The linked article on Committee of 100 needs to be expanded - this movement has been almost forgotten and its huge influence on the single issue campaigns of the 'sixties - e.g. against homelessness, leading to the creation of Shelter (charity) - should be recalled. The Spies for Peace of 1963 should also be mentioned, and deserrve an article to themselves. There is material on the British Library website and, after the death of Nicolas Walter, his daughter Natasha Walter revealed that he was one of the Spies for Peace, whose identities had been kept secret for almost 40 years. Marshall46 10:40, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
I've added more and I've also expanded the article on the Committee of 100. This section is now longer than the sections on the Second Wave and Current CND and is therefore long enough. Please would other editors add to those sections? Marshall46 10:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] CND symbol
The truth of the matter is the symbol was commissioned by the Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation (but first used by the Committe of 100) and the original was purple and green. The official colors were changed to white on black shortly afterwards. Aimulti (talk) 08:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- There is more info' on the symbol at Peace symbol#The peace symbol.--JK the unwise (talk) 11:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
- Aimulti is wrong on all counts. The CND symbol - black and white - was evident on the March to Aldermaston in 1958. The Committee of 100 was formed in 1960 and adapted the symbol by adding "100" to it. The Bertrand Russell Peace Foundation was formed in 1963. Marshall46 (talk) 10:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Seems I was wrong about some details. I have now researched the topic in great detail and updated the entry. References include first hand accounts by Hugh Brock. Editor of Peace News. Aimulti (talk) 06:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Specialist Sections info removed
RE: - "During this period (1980's) CND established a number of "Specialist Sections" to add to Christian CND and Labour CND (est. 1979), including: Ex-services CND, Green CND, Liberal CND, Student CND, Trade Union CND, and Youth CND".
This is completely wrong. All these existed in the sixties. See any issue of the CND paper 'Sanity'.
I was YCND Chairman (for a short time) in the mid sixties (exact date forgotten), Chairman of Highgate YCND, Secretary of Hammersmith CND, Chairman of Hammersmith College CCND and worked full time w/Peggy Duff and Mike Kennedy (L.R.O) at 2 Carthusian Street (and contributed to Sanity), so should know what existed and what did not. I was also involved with every single major demonstration (inc. Aldermastons) from 1962 to 1967 (plus VSC, PPU and Peace News events).
REF.
Papers of the Youth Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (YCND), 1961-1970 and 1985-1989, including minutes of the Executive Committee.
http://library-2.lse.ac.uk/archives/handlists/CND/CND.html
YCND had it's own conference and leadership throughout the '60s. Aimulti (talk) 03:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Added note to membership figures.
In order to avoid the impression that CND became a force only after 1970, and put later figures in perspective, I added a note with a realistic estimate of CND support post 1962.
Aimulti (talk) 00:28, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
