Talk:Camp Fire USA

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Scouting Wiki Project Camp Fire USA is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

[edit] Name

The article correctly states that the current name for Camp Fire Girls is Camp Fire USA. So would anybody object if I moved this page to Camp Fire USA? That would turn Camp Fire Girls into a redirect to Camp Fire USA. (I would then straighten out the resulting double redirects.) Art LaPella 02:16, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Please disregard. Pictures will be forthcoming with appropriate tags. WarFighter 04:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bluebird

The article correctly states that Bluebirds are now called Starflight (I can't imagine my son wanting to be a bluebird), but it still says that the mascot is a bluebird. My wife has her own Camp Fire group, and she says the bluebird logo went out when they changed to Starflight. Art LaPella 01:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Could the mascot (versus the symbol) for the program still be a bluebird? I'm going to change it to say the mascot was "originally" the bluebird, but let me know if the bluebird still factors into the program anywhere. It used to be a popular project to make bluebird nesting boxes--it would be sad if they ditched the bird completely. Katr67 02:04, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

My wife is emailing somebody local. Art LaPella 02:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the reference to the bluebird entirely until a cited source can be found for its continued use in the program in any form. Katr67 19:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

If you check with Camp Fire USA's national office in Kansas City, Missouri, you will find that the blue bird remains the mascot for all of Camp Fire USA. The mascot was redesigned in about 1988, and it looks rather like a "Big Bird" kind of blue bird figure. It may not be often used, but it is a mistake to remove it entirely. And, I'd like to point out that I am the person whose information has been the basis of all that is on this page. AliceMarieBeard 17:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Camp Fire Law

The Camp Fire USA Eastern Massachusetts Council gives "the original Camp Fire Law" as simply "Seek Beauty, Give Service, Pursue Knowledge, Be Trustworthy, Hold On to Health and Be Happy". Not present are "Worship God" and "Glorify Work". Has the Camp Fire Law changed over the years?

This old book from 1916, The Camp Fire Girls at School by Hildegard G. Frey, gives "the Law of the Camp Fire, which is to seek beauty, give service, pursue knowledge, be trustworthy, hold on to health, glorify work, and be happy". Again, no "worship God".

Finally, how can this article state that "Camp Fire USA is inclusive ... open to all youth of any .... creed, religion," if one of the requirements of the Law is to "Worship God"? What about nontheist youth? — Coelacan | talk 20:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I couldn't find the Camp Fire Law on the national site, but I only spent about 5 minutes looking. Since they have a lot about diversity, including religious diversity, I suspect that they dropped that from it, but it's hard to tell, since I can't find it at all. --Habap 23:10, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

For a quote, see http://www.campfireusaihc.org/campfireusalaw.html - as it says there, "In 1942 the words “Worship God,” implicit in the whole statement, were explicitly given as the first item of the law." Doesn't say which one, but I kinda have an idea... Enno 18:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

User Habap is absolutely wrong! The Camp Fire Law remains "Worship God. Give Service. Seek Beauty and Knowledge Pursue. Be Trustworthy Ever, in All That You Do. Hold Fast Onto Health, and Your Work Glorify. And Shall Be Happy, In All That You Do." It appears that this information is being written by people who do not have or use the basic publications of Camp Fire USA. If you obtain the most recent "song book," you will find that song in the book. To suggest that "Worship God" has been eliminated from the Camp Fire Law because Camp Fire does not discrimate based on sexual orientation is way off base. It appears that the people who are "editing" the information on Wiki about Camp Fire USA have their own agenda, and their agenda has nothing to do with Camp Fire USA. AliceMarieBeard 17:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Please Wikipedia:Assume good faith until there is reason to believe otherwise. No one has been "editing" the words "Worship God"; they have remained in the article, unchanged since before this discussion began. Some people were asking about it, because they had some good reasons to believe the words had been removed from the law. You have additional information from a song book. Good, that is the purpose of a Wikipedia talk page. I presume the words "Worship God" will stay in the article unless someone has an answer to the evidence from the song book. Art LaPella 20:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

According to information at Camp Fire USA's National website at http://www.campfire.org , there are 145 "Camp Fire USA councils and community partners." Many of those councils have their own web sites. This is a quick list of the web sites that include "Worship God" in the Camp Fire Law: http://campfirechicago.org/VolunteerHandbook2006.doc (on page 3 of the handbook for volunteers); http://www.campfireusa-ok.org/whatis.htm (Heart of Oklahoma Council); http://www.campfireusadallas.org/aboutus/index.htm (Lone Star Council, Dallas, Texas); http://www.dayton-unitedway.org/campfire/default.htm (Greater Dayton Council); http://www.campfireusaga.org/campfire/alumni%20newsletter%20April%202007.pdf (Georgia Council); http://www.campsingingwind.org/Totem_Pole.html (Lower Columbia Council, southwest Washington & northwest Oregon); http://www.cftejas.com/campfirelaw.htm (Tejas Council, Waco, Texas); http://www.wathana.org/pdf/Annual_report2007.pdf (Wanthana Council, southeastern Michigan & northwestern Ohio); http://www.iowanacampfire.org/purpose.htm (Iowana Council). Additionally, the book put out by Camp Fire USA called "Makin' Music with Camp Fire USA" includes "The Camp Fire Law," and it begins with the words "Worship God." AliceMarieBeard 16:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Art LaPella 18:10, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Witch wendy comic1.jpg

Image:Witch wendy comic1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:07, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MfD userbox

A userbox that mentions this org is up for deletion. Dreadstar † 22:00, 12 March 2008 (UTC)