Talk:Calvin and Hobbes

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[edit] Bumper stickers?

I am disgusted by the number of bumper stickers/car decals I see with Calvin peeing on things, praying before a cross, or reading a Bible. Could there be a section about the bastardization of this strip by trash culture? Especially since Watterson was so anti-syndication, I feel like it's relevant. -Emily D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.101.147 (talk) 21:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

What's the whole problem with praying or reading the bible? Yeah, i undestand the peeing on things, but not the reading the bible or praying......=I -eyeshield 21 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.19.26.254 (talk) 02:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Because depicting Calvin as religious is completely contrary to his essence. It just doesn't represent the character in the least bit. The problem is more about the fact that Watterson worked against this kind of commercialization for his entire career, and now people sell images of Calvin depictings things he'd never do. I'm sure the people who buy them have no idea who Calvin is, or else they'd realize the irony.
-Emily D.
I've been a C&H fan for many years---in fact I even own all the books. I think it is completely within Calvin's personality for him to pee on something and think it is funny. Little boys do things like that. They write their names in the snow. They urinate on insects and spider webs. They have competitions to "see who can pee the farthest". Calvin was intentionally given to us with a reputation of being a hellraiser. Urinating on objects is mild compared to what most little boys, especially imaginative ones, are capable of. That's why I can easily see Calvin doing that. I find those stickers humorous, and only in bad taste if someone is a prude. In fact, if I could find one with Calvin peeing on a Nissan you can bet it would be in the back window of my Tacoma. Finally, Watterson's decision to not license Calvin and Hobbes merchandise is exactly the reason why all these knock-offs are around. Calvin appeals to a great many people for many different reasons. (for example--he appeals to me because he reminds me so much of myself when I was six years old. I don't think you could say the same!) His appeal is almost universal and licensing Calvin and Hobbes merchandise would not have hurt the artistic integrity of the strip. Calvin and Hobbes grew to be more than just a strip. It was a cultural phenomenon, and as such it deserved some different outlets other than the comics.
Please understand, I'm not saying that Watterson didn't have the right to deny licensing agreements. I just think there would not be so much crap (like Calvin prayin) out there had Watterson taken a different stance. -- Primium mobile (talk) 18:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Calvin was a hellraiser not because he was like all little boys, but because he was unlike them in his preternatural intelligence. The humor that those stickers represent is lowbrow, while the strip is much more esoteric than your interpretation- this is both the strip's great strength and its weakness.
It makes me sad that those stickers are the most visible remnant of that incredible body of work.
-Emily —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.103.89 (talk) 06:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I think that you are completely wrong. Calvin's intelligence was comparable to the intelligence of many six-year old boys who are walking around now. I would hardly refer to it as "preternatural". He was an ordinary kid with an overactive imagination and a sometimes very dark sense of humor. The genius of the strip was not Calvin by himself, but the reactions of others who were exposed to Calvin. That includes Hobbes. There is nothing lowbrow about a little boy urinating on something he doesn't like. It's akin to frying an ant with a magnifying glass. All the adults are shocked by it, but little boys find it amusing. That would include Calvin. I agree that it is sad that the window stickers are the most visible remnant, but that is something you should take up with Watterson and not the makers of the stickers.Primium mobile (talk) 09:02, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Maybe you'd like to edit the section on Calvin, then, where it says, "Calvin is an impulsive, sometimes overly creative, imaginative, energetic, curious, intelligent, and often selfish six-year-old, whose last name is never mentioned in the strip. Despite his low grades, Calvin has a wide vocabulary range that rivals that of an adult as well as an emerging philosophical mind." 71.206.103.89 (talk) 21:29, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Emily
I'm sorry, but why would I want to do that? Other than things like circulation statistics and such, this entire article is entirely subjective. That whole quote you pasted here is entirely the opinion of the author of the article. All children are philosophical. Calvin just happened to be particularly good at expressing his thoughts. But he was by no means unique. The whole crux of your argument is that Calvin would not urinate on anything. I am telling you that he would. Just because so many people see him as some demigod who has never had an equal does not mean it is true. Primium mobile (talk) 15:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted to put in my two cents, to make some points that people seem to have been missing, and clarify some things. First of all, I like the fact that the comment which started this section objected equally to both extremes of the bastardization of the characters. To answer those who say "what's so wrong with ____?":

  • The Christian propaganda is offensive because Calvin never gave preference to any religion or faith, nor did any of the other primary characters. I find it disgusting when a political or religious group usurps a well-known character, seemingly only because they're popular and will grab people's attention, and portray them doing or saying something contrary to their true character.
  • As for the idiotic decals of him peeing on various logos, it's not so much offensive as just stupid. It's not just a simple matter of a little kid peeing on things (yes, most of us are aware that boys of Calvin's age do tend to think it's funny to pee on things, but that's not the idea behind these things); the problem is that the look on his face, combined with the fact that a decal of him peeing on the logo for (insert automobile company A) appears on a (insert automobile company B), is making the claim that Calvin prefers (company B) and takes evil pleasure in literally pissing on (company A). Calvin is an overly intelligent kid with an inflated vocabulary, not a beer-drinking college student, and I highly doubt he would have such devotion to any automobile company, sports team, or whatever else drunken frat boys are into these days.

And finally, it's naive at best to think that these sorts of things wouldn't have came about if Watterson had allowed his beloved characters to be whored out to the masses with merchandise. One can find plenty of offensive bootleg shirts and stickers of every popular comic/cartoon character, regardless of how much official merchandise is available for those characters. - Ugliness Man (talk) 06:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

A friend of mine suggested I make a decal of Charlie Brown defecating on a car logo and see how the "well dang, I think it's funny" people react then. -Emily —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.103.89 (talk) 14:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I never once said that these things would not be around had Watterson signed liscensing agreements. I said that there may have been more control over it. And that is exactly true. Watterson was completely wrong to criticize Charles Schultz for allowing Peanuts to be commercialized to the extent that it is. Peanuts, like Calvin and Hobbes, was and is a cultural phenomenon. There will always be bootleg merchandise of everything. The point was that if there was any official merchandise there would be less of the crap around. That's not so difficult to see. And again, I'm not saying that Watterson didn't have a right to deny licensing of his characters. They belong to him so he has that right. Primium mobile (talk) 09:10, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Simply as a fan of the strip, I'd like to know what Watterson thinks specifically about the praying Calvin decals. On his page, there's nothing mentioned about his religious beliefs, and currently there's no quote by him about the praying Calvin (there is about the peeing one). If there isn't any information out there, that's one thing, but if there is, can someone include it in this section? 72.130.89.63 (talk) 21:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

All I know for sure is that Watterson is opposed to almost all merchandising of his characters, including all decals and bumper stickers, and that using someone else's intellectual property to promote your own agenda is theft. The so called Christians who abuse Calvin in this way should be ashamed. Watterson's opposition to such merchandising should definitely be noted, especially as these asinine stickers are becoming a cultural phenomenon. F-451 (talk) 00:02, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

No one said the stickers were the cultural phenomenon, the strip itself was. Personally as a long time fan of the strip I don't find anything offensive about the stickers with Calvin peeing on stuff. It's the kind of kid he was. As for the ones with him praying and such, I didn't particularly like those because it totally went against his character to have faith in something like that (you'll recall the numerous strips where he scrutinizes the possibility of a God and the Devil). The only one that made me laugh was one that showed him praying with the caption "Lord, please forgive me for peeing on everything." For Calvin to believe in something like that is totally against the inquisitive nature of the character. I imagine if he ever met a Pastor he would end up playing the "Why?" game not to irritate or test limits like most children, but because he truly couldn't understand how people could believe in something so baseless (it would seem baseless to him, not bashing religious people here, just trying to put words to Calvin's way of thinking).Hypershadow647 (talk) 02:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Calvinball" in use "outside of the media"?

Are there non-blog references to this? Aren't they needed? --DAW0001 (talk) 15:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism section

And also why isn't there a "Criticism" section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.48.158 (talk) 21:53, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Because the criticism is integrated throughout the article. See Wikipedia:Criticism#Formatting criticism.

[edit] Image deletion pending in one day

Just a note for the maintainers of this article that the image of Hobbes in the Characters section is up for deletion (tomorrow Friday February 1) because of an invalid fair use tag (see talk page for specific reasoning). It might also be wise to update the other images if need be to make sure they are all licensed correctly. Harryboyles 10:35, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Fixed, fixed the rest of the images, and the user who tagged it has been notified that by common courtesy they should have posted a note here to let us know earlier. Anomie⚔ 12:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Charles Schulz

This article neglects to mention that, though Waterson warmly praises Charles Schulz as an influence, he also brutally condemns Schulz (without naming him) for commercializing Peanuts. I'll come back in a month or so, and if no one has added this material, I'll insert the specific quotes.

WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 23:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Please do. I look forward to seeing that. I'm always interested in what Watterson has to say on the industry.--Jono —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.112.102.254 (talk) 01:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BIg problem with comic from Attack of the Deranged Mutant Killer Monster Snow Goons

In this week long strip with said book Calvin creates a machine that allows him to clone himself, but only the good part of himself. Now for this whole week "Calvin" is supposedly hiding under his bed and hanging out with Hobbes, while the "good Calvin" goes to school gets good grades starts being nice to everybody and tries to put the moves on Sussie. At the end of the week "good Calvin" gets shut down hard by Sussie so "good calvin" goes and confronts "Calvin" who is off playing with Hobbes. "Calvin" is angry that "good Calvin" is ruining his bad name and then enrages "good Calvin" by saying something and good Calvin disappears do to a "fail safe in the cloning machine". Now think about that, did Calvin try and change his life and become good only to be sent back to his old life by a failed romantic adventure and then made up this story to rationalize the whole event. Or did Calvin actually pretend to be good Calvin for a whole week doing all his homework getting up early helping with the dishes just so his original game of having a cloning machine would work, if you read the comic it's pretty clear that "good calvin" actually is the one interacting with people and in this case "calvin" is the part being imagined. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradleyg5 (talk • contribs) 09:40, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

So what's the BIG problem? You seem to understand it.Primium mobile (talk) 04:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Indeed and furthermore you forgot to think of the implications that it is a comic strip and therefore follows a different set of "rules". Otherwise we should constantly be questioning Calvin's sanity and why he has two distinct personalities. Chitchin13 (talk) 23:54, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Horrendous Space Kablooie" nominated for deletion

The article Horrendous Space Kablooie has been nominated for deletion. The discussion regarding this matter can be found at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Horrendous Space Kablooie. --Ckatzchatspy 06:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Where calvin lives

In the conclusion of the "weirdos from another planet!" storyline, Hobbes mentions that their "house is by the big letter E in the word states" this would make them live in the mideastern US, and the climate seems to indicate they live somewhere to the north (not Florida ect.)Emma Hordika (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC)Emma Hordika

The idea of defining where Calvin lives, for any purpose more academic than a lazy conversation on a summer afternoon among friends, seems counterintuitive to the entire strip.--Jono —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.112.102.254 (talk) 01:20, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newest revisions

The newest revisions to the article should remain. They get rid of some redundant and unnecessary information. A few things may be missing now, but over all, I think it is an improvement. Mynameisnotpj (talk) 02:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that the older version of the article is more interesting. Why not leave all of that in there? After all, it was a starred article before you removed all of the little factoids that flesh out an article. It reads more stale now. Icarus of old (talk) 02:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Not only that, but the so-called "newest revisions" (IMO, they're just simple vandalism) include numerous formatting errors and nonsense resulting from deletion of random paragraphs and section headers. Anomie⚔ 02:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
It is a Featured Article, and if such large swaths of the article are going to be removed after meeting FA requirements it should be discussed here, especially if it breaks formatting. I say, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Hewinsj (talk) 04:08, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the battle to keep or remove info

well i'm confused cause a bunch of people keep reverting each others edits over and over again regarding the info about the origins of calvin and hobbes's names and also the official merchandise that was ever produced. I dunno what going through your minds but I think we should set this straight before this becomes a reverting battle.

from the sources I saw, it seems like the origin of calvin and hobbes names are valid (waterson did name them after the 2 philosophers) and the merchandise info is correct. but if you think it is relevant or not, its up to you people fighting over the format to decide... 130.113.226.6 (talk) 15:14, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Calvinball and nanotech

98.224.230.176 has twice now tried to add this as a reference to the Calvinball section:

“If the limitations of life were like the rules in Calvinball, someone like Nozick might ask if there would be anything left for people to do.” David H. Guston, John Parsi, and Justin Tosi, "Anticipating the Ethical and Political Challenges of Human Nanotechnologies", in Fritz Allhoff ed., Nanoethics: The Ethical and Social Implications of Nanotechnology, (2007). Page 196.

While potentially interesting, it doesn't serve to support anything currently in the article so I have moved it here. If 98.224.230.176 (or anyone else) can come up with one or two more such references in scholarly works or very-high-profile news reports, we could use it to support a statement like "Calvinball is occasionally used as a metaphor for other situations where the rules are arbitrary and change at a whim." Anomie⚔ 12:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Noodle Incident and "Hamster Huey and the Gooey Kablooie"

Someone decided it would be a good idea to create a stub at Hamster Huey and the Gooey Kablooie, and then someone else decided to tag it as merging to here. I merged everything worth merging, so I removed the merge tag from this article. Anomie⚔ 22:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. (I tagged it for merge, as I didn't have much time this morning.) -- Quiddity (talk) 23:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)