Talk:Calvin Coolidge

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[edit] reaction

I took out "...After that, Coolidge became withdrawn and mute. Before he had been a relatively active, talkative,

While Coolidge was deeply saddened by his youngest son's death, he certainly did not become mute ("When he went the power and the glory of the Presidency went with him."). He was never known to be talkative, even before Calvin,Jr's death.

Does anybody know why the English version (as well as other Western language versions) messed up the Chinese link? (Japanese and Chinese versions are fine) -- Jackcsk 04:32, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] did he have Indian blood?

this site claims he had Indian blood

He said that he did, and his biographers seem to agree. See Calvin Coolidge, The Man from Vermont, by Claude Fuess. Coemgenus 02:43, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I beleive he was refering to the vial of Soiux blood that he kept under his pillow. Drunkboxer 00:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo Correct ,but discription wrong

In the Photo of Calvin & Grace Coolidge accompanied by Charles Curtis (Senator from Kansas), on their way to the 1925 Inauguration Ceromony. Curtis is has been referred to as Vice-President-Elect. This is WRONG, in the 1925 Inagural. President Coolidge is sworn in for his Full Term as President, Charles G.Dawes is the Vice-President-Elect, Dawes is sworn in as Vice-President. Charles Curtis won't become Vice-President until the 1929 Inauguration , when Herbert C.Hoover becomes President.

http://www.calvin-coolidge.org/pages/education/facts.html

Where is his Cabinet? Someone deleted it.

[edit] Noted Quotes

Just to point out, the quote on persistence was repeated twice, once near the top and again at the bottom. I removed the second incarnation. Also, I just find it intertesting to see that the quote regarding "You lose" has been changed to "Poppa wins." Everywhere I've looked, including Wikiquotes, has the quote as "You lose." The Whitehouse biography has this as well. Is there another reputable source that justifies this change? --Az 19:47, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The change was made by an anon whose only edits are two to this page to change the quote. I'm guessing vandalism. I'll fix it. Hbackman 22:37, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Thought that might be the case, but wasn't sure enough to change it myself. If that really is true, though I've always heard it the other way, someone will show up to fix it for us.--Az 02:40, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I rm the fol quote: "I am a very important man and I was reelected in spite of what nay-sayers noted, take that!" I can't find this anywhere on the Net; if it is actually a noted quote, we should say noted by whom. Not that the Net is the be all and end all of info; however, there should be at least a mention of it somewhere, as it seem sto be very uncharacteristicof Mr Coolidge. As well, it was added in by a user whose only other edit was a pointless POV insert at Zimbabwe to the effect of "they never should have kicked all the Europeans out", all in caps.

I'd really like to see some citation for this quote. It only appears here and in towo other online "encyclopedias" which use Wikipedia as source. SigPig 10:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes

Hmm, I'm not so sure about the link "Silent Cal" in the notes section. Is linking to a site that's selling a term paper on the topic really a good idea? Shouldn't this be a more authoritative source instead? I'll look for something of the sort, but I'd love to hear other people's opinions on this.--Az 21:03, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

How about this? --David Harville 15:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Cool Cal" mnemonic?

What is this "Cool Cal" mnemonic the article talks about? It should be explained in the text (and I can't find anything on Google). SigPig 00:14, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Funny, I was going to ask the same thing, but saw your question here, with no answer. A nickname, probably. Alliteration, certainly. But a mnemomic? Doubt it. I'll change it, and if anyone reverts it, then can that person please add justification as to why it is a mnemomic?StephenBuxton 22:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I read somewhere (I know, not particularly helpful) that is was a campaign slogan of his at some point. Leon 22:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Favorite

This may sound odd, but Cal has always been my favorite president. I think his ideas were brilliant. andrew... 04:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Carlos Coolidge

Could someone confirm that Carlos Coolidge was a relative of Calvin Coolidge?--Rayc 04:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

The Journal of American History published in June 2006 an article here, which points out that: "This waffling—encouraged by the npov policy—means that it is hard to discern any overall interpretive stance in Wikipedia history. One might expect—given the Randian politics of the founders and the strength of libertarian sentiments in cyberspace—a libertarian or conservative slant. But I did not find it. One can see occasional glimmers, as in the biography of Calvin Coolidge that says with apparent approval, “Coolidge was the last President of the United States who did not attempt to intervene in free markets, letting business cycles run their course.” This sentence was inserted early on by an avowed libertarian and it has survived dozens of subsequent edits." It seems this sentence has been correctly removed. Tazmaniacs 17:29, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] March 4, 1929

General sources:

  • From the Senate Report on Presidential terms: From 1789 through 1937, presidential and vice presidential terms ended on March 4 of every year following a presidential election, a date set by the Second Congress.
  • From Hind's House Precedents §6694-8. §6725 ftnote: On the 3d of March, 1851, Mr. Stephens offered a resolution to test this question, and on the ruling of Speaker Cobb it was decided that the Congress expired at noon on the 4th of March; which ruling has been in effect ever since. (6697)

Coolidge arose at 7:00 AM March 4, 1929, and (after breakfast, and a complaint that it always rained when moved) "went to his desk and signed more bills" (Richard Sobel: Coolidge: An American enigma. p, 402.) Septentrionalis 19:11, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question from a Brit

What does running for the presidency as a 'favourite son' mean? Martyn Smith 14:47, 6 December 2006 (UTC) I'm sorry if I screwed up the format of this page, but I had to remove the vandalism that said Coolidge is a cocksucker. Coolidhe was a great man.

at the presidential nominating convention, in the old days a state delegation would often cast their votes for a prominent person from that state--the "favorite son"--as an honor. Then on 2nd ballot switch to real candidate.Rjensen 08:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
The term "favorite son" is still used. Nowadays it tends to mean a candidate who is running in his home state -- for example, during a party's presidential primary [statewide vote to help the party choose its candidate for president] -- and regarded as a favorite to do well, if not win. The term is sometimes extended beyond a state's borders: in the New Hampshire Democratic party in 1992, Paul Tsongas of neighboring Massachusetts came in ahead of Bill Clinton. Part of Tsongas's victory was attributed to 'favorite son' status, because in theory as a U. S. Senator from a neighboring state he would have been better known to New Hampshire voters. Also, a person will sometimes run as a favorite son in order to garner most of a state's primary votes and hold them at the party's nominating convention, in hopes of influencing the eventual outcome. — OtherDave 01:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HEY This NUTS!

Vandalism is back. Someone should go through this article and make sure that nothing else is changed. Also this page should probably be locked.

[edit] August 2nd EST or August 3rd PST, 1923

When President Harding died (Before Mid-night, Aug.2, 1923) in Los Angeles (PST), Vice President Calvin Coolidge became President. However, Coolidge was in (at the momment of Harding's death) Vermont (past mid-night, wee early morning of Aug. 3 EST). Should we list Coolidge as becoming President on August 3rd? How should this be listed? GoodDay 00:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

1928 Election: "He did not seek I LOVE JOEY renomination" I don't know if this should be "republican renomination" or if it it just "renomination" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.189.197.44 (talk) 22:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

Hit the "history" tab up top and you get a log of all the edits to the article. You can use the "compare versions" feature to see what exactly was done each time. Someone has already fixed the vandalism you noticed. Thanks for paying attention. Mrees1997 22:38, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] KKK

Why is the reference to Coolidge's KKK connection always removed? The photos of the large rally and parades of 1925-26 in front of the White House exist. He was the for lack of a better word "Grand Marshal". This is WRONG to remove when there are photos, this is wrong to remove when it is fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.81.151.172 (talk • contribs)

I've read every Coolidge biography and not one mentions this. Provide a citation to a reliable source, and it can stay in. Coemgenus 17:29, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
How about The History Channel's "Ku Klux Klan: A Secret History?" That a good enough source for you? It even shows his enlistment papers. Pvegeta 15:41, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
No, it's not. I mean a reliable source. Theories as unusual as the one we're discussing here typically require a higher level of citation than a sensationalist cable TV show. The commenter above says that at the Klan rally in 1925, Coolidge "was for lack of a better word 'Grand Marshal.'" His scholarly biographers, on the other hand, confirm that Coolidge held no such position, and was not even in Washington when the rally took place but was vacationing in Swampscott, Massachusetts. (See Ferrell, 111-112; Greenberg, 86). That's the difference between a reliable source and a television show. Coemgenus 21:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flag icons

I'm not sure I see the point in the little state flags next to Coolidge's places of birth and death. But if you're going to use them, why use Flag of Vermont for Vermont when at the time Coolidge was born was the flag of Vermont? This all seems rather pointless, since the name of the state is already there, obviating the need for a flag, but if we're going to keep them, let's at least get it right. Coemgenus 15:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Those who believe the government should be more involved"

Is that really the other point of view that Greenberg describes, as opposed to, perhaps, people who see in his policies the groundwork of the Depression? With Hoover as his sec. commerce, Coolidge's administration was not exactly non-interventionist unless you compare it to Wilson's war administration. Gazpacho 18:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hoover was certainly interventionist as President, but he agreed with Coolidge on vetoing the McNary-Haugen bill. I can't think of any example of Coolidge being more interventionist than his successor, or more than his immediate predecessors. People blamed him for the Depression fifty years ago, but is that still something historians talk about? The Depression didn't even start in America; it largely grew out of conditions in Europe, though I will agree that tariffs (something Coolidge believed in) made the situation worse for the average American. Still, I can't see blaming worldwide economic collapse on Coolidge, especially not in the lead paragraph. Coemgenus 10:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I changed it a little. Let me know if you think that's more accurate. I re-read the section of Greenberg I cited, but it's pretty positive, so I looked to Ferrell, who's more down on Coolidge. He seems to think Coolidge should have done something to stop stock market speculation. Coemgenus 10:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Teapot Dome

"Coolidge had not stood out in the Harding administration, as much of the focus was on the scandals that had begun to emerge by 1923, most notoriously the Teapot Dome scandal."

I question the accuracy of the above sentence, but I do not have access to the sources cited. According to WP's Teapot Dome article, it did not become a full-blown scandal until 1924, after harding died. Thus, even though it had begun to emerge by 1923, it would not have been a major focus. Finally, there is no way it good have been a major focus in 1921 or 1922, the other two years of the Harding administration.

I'm also not sure why it's significance that "Coolidge had not stood out." Very few VPs stood out. I propose that the sentence be deleted.

For the same reason, I would delete the sentence part that reads "Although many of Harding's cabinet appointees were scandal-tarred." Most, if not all of the affected appointees became scandal-tarred after he allowed them to stay on.Eldred 15:55, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I think you're right about the first bit; I combined and shortened two sentences. Do you think that's more accurate? As for the "scandal-tarred" sentence, I'd like to recheck the citation over the weekend before replying. I think Fuess may be referring to other scandals besides Teapot Dome. Coemgenus 16:24, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it's more accurate, thanks.Eldred 19:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Parodies

It's a rare day in America that anyone speaks Calvin Coolidge's name in the 21st Century. I think it would be interesting and useful to include the parody of Coolidge in Jon Stewart's America (the Book) as a published mention of that fact that the nickname Silent Cal is iconic of Coolidge's image, even unto 2006. The exact wording of the reference is the same as the first quotation about the "more than two words" bet, but he "replies", "fuck you" instead. It's perfectly acceptable to include the full Jon Stewart quotation (WP:NOT), but it's not absolutely necessary per the reason for including a sentence about the book's mention of Coolidge. VanTucky 05:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Coolidge was wittier.. Brutannica 22:32, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the "X in popular culture" sections are frowned upon. That book, amusing as it is (I own a copy,) has nothing to do with Calvin Coolidge. Coemgenus 23:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "mitigating some of the adverse effects of capitalism"

"mitigating some of the adverse effects of capitalism"

This line, that appears in the very first section of the article, seems particularly biased. Some believe there are adverse affects that should, or even could, be mitigated. However, others believe that the adverse situations that are attributed to capitalism, are in fact created, if not at least exasperated, by programs that purport to mitigate them.

This statement does not seem to take into account such differing views.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BrownHornet (talk • contribs)

No, that statement does not take into account differing views. The point of that sentence is to illustrate that there are different opinions about Coolidge. Some think his reduction of government was good, and some think he should have had a government that intervened more. The two clauses of that sentence reflect these two opinions. I wrote it, and I can assure you that I am not biased against Coolidge; I think he was one of the best presidents the U.S. ever had. But that section was meant to address his legacy, which is mixed. Coemgenus 23:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
First, thanks for your contributions to a great article. Much appreciated. I didn't think the statment was biased against Coolidge, it's just that when reading it, it seems to make an assumption that there are indeed "adverse effects" (or "harsher effects") of capitalism. Not every believes that detrimental effects are a foregone conclusion in a truly free market. Phrasing might be included such as "supposed adverse effects", or maybe just refer to the name of the system of thinking that opposed him, e.g. "economic interventionism". Just my thoughts. Thanks, (BrownHornet 02:19, 30 May 2007 (UTC))
I agree with you, but when I first wrote the article I ran such phrases by some of my leftist friends, and they found them biased the other way. I think maybe your idea of "economic intervensionism" might be another option to consider. I'll fiddle with it. Thanks for your comment - I'm glad you liked the article. Coemgenus 13:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the word "supposed" could seem a little derogatory. Maybe "believed effects"? Anyway, having recently watched Milton Friedman's 10 episode "Free to Choose" PBS documentary from 1980, I realize there is a strong contingent of free market proponents who quite effectively argue that most perceived ill effects of capitalism are actually due to other interferences in the market. Thanks again.(BrownHornet 13:53, 30 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Is this a fair statement?

The introduction makes a statement "Many later criticized Coolidge as part of a general criticism of laissez-faire government, especially in times of economic hardship, such as the Great Depression.", with an accompanying reference. This statement seems a little unfair to Coolidge, given that his Presidency did not even extend into the Great Depression. Criticizing laissez-faire government is one thing, but should it be mentioned in the article on Coolidge considering that his Presidency coincided with the 1920s boom? -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 15:09, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

It is the standard criticism of Coolidge. You're right, it's not fair, but one of the negative things people say about Coolidge is that laissez-faire government somehow caused the Depression. I think it's bullshit, but if I leave it out, then people say I'm only telling one side of the historical interpretation. Feel free to try and come up with something better, but that sentence has been the subject of considerable edit-warring between leftists and rightists -- don't be surprised if someone takes issue with whatever you write. Coemgenus 15:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
How about just "Coolidge was later criticized as part of a general criticism of laissez-faire government", keeping the existing reference but not mentioning economic hardship or Great Depression? My point is that a discussion of laissez-faire vs protectionism is needed and justified, but the Coolidge article is not a place for it purely because Coolidge's presidency did not have any economic trouble. If anything, it may be put into he Herbert Hoover article, where it may be appropriate given the widespread existence of shantytowns called "Hoovervilles" in the early 1930s. Putting it in the Coolidge article is really blaming the wrong guy for the Depression. -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 16:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
As an addendum, I have encountered a school of thought that Coolidge's policies indirectly contributed to the Depression but he didn't take the blame for it because he wasn't President when it started. If that is the case, it may be explicitly stated, into something like "Coolidge was later criticized as part of a general criticism of laissez-faire government.(REFERENCE) Some of this criticism is due to a belief that Coolidge's policies contributed to the Great Depression(REFERENCE); it should be mentioned however that Coolidge's presidency did not overlap with the Great Depression, and that his presidency was marked with economic prosperity (REFERENCE to the 1920s boom)." -- Brhaspati\talk/contribs 16:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
What you've written seems reasonable, and it doesn't contradict the citations. Coemgenus 10:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coolidge and animals

While researching Billy (pygmy hippo) I discovered that Coolidge had an extensive collection of animals from his time at the White House, second only to Theodore Roosevelt. He also discusses it briefly in his memoirs. Think it's worth mentioning somewhere in the article? I don't want to just start inserting stuff into a Featured Article without bringing it up on talk. --JayHenry 04:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

It certainly is interesting, but it seems a bit trivial to insert in this article. Maybe on Grace Coolidge's page? Coemgenus 13:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Very Nice

I am quite impressed with this article. It has helped me dramatically with my A.P. United States History essay assignment! Thanks!Wrhapsody 23:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I hope you cited your sources. Vincent Valentine 20:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I was also impressed by this article. It is very well put together, and it even has a video in it. I learned a lot! =D - Shini

[edit] Son of the American Revolution

While vaguely interesting, Coolidge was in a hundred organizations, being a politician. We can't list them all. He was far enough removed from the Revolution itself to make no more difference in his life than the rest of us. That is, membership by heredity from that distance is not interesting to readers IMO. Also, we don't want to make article a category farm, as it were. Student7 (talk) 11:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC)