Talk:California Coast University

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[edit] Original entry

It doesn't help your case any to continuously remove reference to the "diploma mill" report. Anyone doing an online search will find references to it (where do you think I found them?). Removing the reference only makes it seem like you are trying to hide.

It is pertinent information. If you feel that I've worded the section poorly, then let's come up with a good compromise which gives the whole truth, instead of hiding parts which you don't like.

Looking at your personal edit history, it seems that you are only interested in schools which provide distance learning. Who are you affiliated with? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Critic-at-Arms (talk • contribs)

[edit] Response

I have added the GAO reference with only the facts (not spin) in tact (as I have done in the past, only to find the reference removed). At one point I did temporarily remove the GAO reference with the intention of "cleaning it up". (And many of my edits are minor).

It seems that someone tends to favor glowing descriptions of Pacific Western University while slinging mud on CCU, which has received DETC accreditation. (Someone likes to refer to PWU as accredited, which it is NOT). Someone likes to add "Magic Mill" and simple bio links with one's own negative spin, in addition to the accurate links. This annoys me since I do have a connection to CCU. But I will endeavor to be as fair as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmacw6 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Counter

I'm not the one trying to puff up PWU, and in fact can't tell you anything about it. You, however, have repeatedly spun this article. It wasn't a "complaint" that resulted in the name change, it was the loss of a lawsuit. I've corrected the article. I've also edited the section on the accreditation to perhaps make CCU look a little better than the way you had it, while explaining the GAO determination in the first place.

I don't have anything in particular against CCU. I have a lot against hiding the truth, or being misleading. Critic-at-Arms 06:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

Actually it was not you specifically, but someone without a login name who apparently has been puffing up PWU and such.

I never had a problem with the name infringement passage at any time, but I was not the one who originally termed the infringement case a "complaint". My main intention was to correct the name of the "plaintiff" school to CWSL (as opposed to CWU).

Moreover, I think you should note that the name of the GAO report in question is "Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense". The report refers to California Coast University as an unaccredited school that charged a flat fee (and does not mention that the school was state-approved for decades). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmacw6 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Encouraged

CCU has gained ground in the past 34 years and maintains a steady course in spite of its detractors. Unfortunately, education is a snooty field for many who seek validation. One of the biggest criticisms of this school is that its tuition is low. This taunts the big bucks, elitist approach to education. Other criticisms are that this school is not well known. For those who need brand names for their educational validity and if national accreditation won't do, then they should go somewhere else. Much criticism revolves around the distance approach. If independent study is not for you, then go where you can sit and listen to a lecture. But to cry out against the school as a diploma mill speaks volumes against the detractors. In spite of these criticisms, the loudest wailing still cannot drown out the trumpets of approval from the U.S. Department of Education, the DETC, and CHEA, all leading accreditation authorities in higher education. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.34.112.176 (talk) 02:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Balance

I just edited this page to remove some of the unbalanced and biased descriptions. What is needed on this page is a history of CCU that presents both sides with credible sources and unbiased language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davewagner (talk • contribs)

I can confirm from my own research that the page as of August 1, 2007 is factually correct, and neutrally presented. I can also confirm this University is not a "diploma mill". The courses of study are done as any other correspondence course, (I took Ornithology from Cornell via correspondence, and that school could never be called a diploma mill). The university uses textbooks from Pearson/Prentice Hill, as many other universities, and sends study guides, which have questions at the end of each chapter, and "Unit" examinations (4 per course). After those are completed, the student then must complete 3 essays (by choosing 3 questions to answer from a set of questions, usually 4-6 options to choose from per the person I spoke to in my research). The essay guidelines are clear and strict, with specific rules the student must follow to get credit. Finally, the student must complete a proctored examination. The final examination must be taken in the presence of a neutral, third party (proctor) who can verify the identity of the test-taker.
Prior credit is given for classes taken from other accredited schools, but you do not get a degree from "life experience" as is the case with diploma mills. Even if you are only 4 credits shy of a degree, you are still required to complete their course of study, there are no "freebies" given out. For each degree, you can only transfer partial credit: Associates: 30 units, Bachelor's: 93 units, Masters 6 units. Thus, another discredit to the claim this school is a diploma mill. You are indeed paying for an education, you must read textbooks that are nationally used, and you must complete a series of exams, and essays. This is not a "pay for degre" in any way, shape, or form.
All that is lacking is, I agree, history of the university. I hope this clears things up for people who are not familiar with the school, and may jump to the wrong conclusions. If needed, I can cite many well-known companies who have hired graduates from the school. Thanks for reading, Ariel♥Gold 17:43, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] removal of the {{NPOV}} tag

I've never taken any class at CCU but CCU is DETC accredited. So, it's unclear to me why there's discussion about CCU being a diploma mill? It may be true that RA is held in higher regard by many, especially within academia but DETC accreditation in my mind (I assume to most people as well.) means that CCU is not a diploma mill. The main purpose of my note here is to ask if anyone objects to the removal of the {{NPOV}} tag in the article? Thanks, TallMagic 18:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just For The Record

California Coast University has been removed from the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board's list of questionable and/or substandard institutions-- positive news, to be sure. But the school should have been removed from this negative list back in early 2005, when it attained recognized accreditation. (Even state agencies can make mistakes). Obi777 10:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Obi777, I'm pleased to hear your report but I'm confused by the fact that CCU is still on the following list. http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/PrivateInstitutions/NoTX.cfm Perhaps you're referring to a different list? I would also like to mention that I sent a request to the Texas CB a few days ago asking them to remove CCU from the list I referenced above but I've not yet heard back from them. TallMagic 17:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I would agree. As of today the current list on the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board has CCU listed as a questionable and or substandard institution. Not sure what list Obi777 is refering to. Check out this news report [1] --Skippycan 21:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


I note that reference to the Texas list has been added back into the article. This is totally correct even though I suspect that CCU should not be on the Texas list because of its DETC accreditation. I say it is correct because as indicated in WP:V "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source." Without this rule editting Wikipedia would be total WikiChaos. Regarding Texas, if it's not a mistake then perhaps it's a condemnation of DETC by Texas or a statement about CCU specifically being unaccredited for so long or something? TallMagic 23:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Obi777, In your edit comment you mention the following list, http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/AAR/PrivateInstitutions/FraudTX.cfm Please note that CCU has never been on that list. That list is for institutions that are based in Texas. TallMagic 18:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Hello TallMagic, I had already realized that error. Please note that I returned the THECB reference to CCU'S wikipedia page on 10/14/07.

Obi777 13:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It appears to me that Texas is saying that DETC is an unacceptable unrecognized accreditation agency. http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/reports/PDF/1254.PDF My personal guess is that this will unlikely hold up in an expected court challenge. Interesting! TallMagic 05:00, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Looks like someone removed the information related to the THECB. I have restored the inforamtion as it is verifyable and accurate as of today. --Skippycan 15:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

This is a very interesting situation. --TallMagic 17:22, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I reverted a deletion of the Texas position from the article. Please review the above discussion for the reason why. I agree that the Texas position is likely illegal. Find a reliable source that makes that assertion and let's add it to the article! TallMagic 15:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Even if an argument can be made that this is illegal that does not change the fact that the THECB has deemed degrees from CCU to be fraudulent or substandard. In the state of Texas the THECB is tasked with making these determinations. --Skippycan 16:56, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Absolutly true. TallMagic 20:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Changes

Looks like some people don't like the fact that CCU has been placed on the fraudulent or substandard list by the state of Texas as noted by recent changes. As we have discussed previously the fact is that the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board as made this determination as noted by their statement on their webpage. Some may feel that this is illegal or unjust but until the THECB determines otherwise the use of CCU degrees in the state of Texas is illegal. This information is verifiable and accurate as of today. --71.145.131.157 15:18, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


Once again it seems that people wish to use this entry to disagree with the determination made by the THECB. If people wish to change the facts they need to take it up with the THECB. The fact is that until changed the THECB has deemed degrees from CCU to be fraudulent or substandard.--Skippycan 17:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

This is all true. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. The article needs to report the facts. The fact is that THECB does not seem to accept DETC. This issue cannot be resolved on Wikipedia. Wikipedia can only report on the verifiable facts as they develop within THECB, the DETC, the courts, the legislature, or wherever the facts lead us as they are reported on by reliable sources. TallMagic 18:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair Reporting

Some people have a penchant for reporting controversies which seem to discredit this nationally accredited school. The field of distance education is full of controversy. The situation is gradually improving but distance education is not as universally accepted as traditional "brick and mortar" education. There will be issues in this field that are larger than CCU. These should not be reported as if they only applied to CCU. This is an encyclopedia not a tabloid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.14.89 (talk) 23:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment. While I agree with what I assume is your position, that Texas should recognize DETC accredited degrees, I disagree that the issue is a "tabloid" issue or unfair to report. I believe that regional accreditation degrees are more accepted than DETC degrees and therefore have more utility. IMHO, the Texas THECB issue mentioned in the article is just another example of this very important issue. TallMagic 19:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Once again, save your debate for another forum. This is an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.33.32 (talk) 00:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Why once again? I was addressing the topic that you started. If you would like to continue discussing the topic that you started then fine. TallMagic 01:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC) P.S. thank you for removing your rude comment.

[edit] degrees awarded prior to 2005

Degrees awarded before the accreditation date are considered unaccredited. Unaccredited degrees may not be acceptable to some employers or other institutions. In some jurisdictions the use of unaccredited degree titles may be restricted or illegal, for example in the State of Texas. [1]

[edit] references

  1. ^ Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board

There seems to be an ongoing disagreement over the above text in the accreditation section. When there's a disagreement such as this it should be discussed on the talk page. So, here's where I propose discussing it.

Here's my opinion: I don't have a problem with the above text. The initial proposed text was too long and I felt applied undue weight to the previously unaccredited status. The above text is okay IMHO, though because CCU was unaccredited for many years and unaccredited degrees will still have some restrictions as the Texas THECB indicates. TallMagic 22:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CCU Doesn't Offer Doctorates

I believe that CCU discontinued offering doctorate degrees as part of their DETC accreditation. Saying that CA allows CCU to offer doctorates doesn't make sense to me. CA academic license approval no longer applies and is irrelevant after official DETC accreditation was achieved. CA law that applies to academic institutions is different for accredited and unaccredited institutions. Therefore, it seems to me to be nothing more than a misleading sentence. That is why I have deleted that phrase twice from the article. If you disagree then please explain your rationale here. Thanks, TallMagic (talk) 19:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For Clarification

To TallMagic and others:

DETC-accredited and out-of-state schools operating in California have long been required to go through the California state-approval process. Only in-state regionally accredited schools, religious-exempt schools and perhaps schools with certain professional accreditations are not required to be state-approved. It should also be noted that the California state-approval process is currently in flux, as the Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education (the official regulatory body) was sunsetted in July 2007. State authorities apparently have until next year to form a new oversight body. In the meantime, such schools operating in California have signed an official agreement with the State to conform to the current standards.--Obi777 (talk) 16:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)