Talk:Calgary Flames/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Dion Phaneuf does not belong in the current stars list because he has yet to play a game for the Flames. -- JamesTeterenko 06:21, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. He is currently the only member of the Flames to be playing anywhere in North America, save for Kobasew and Commodore playing in Lowell, AHL. Phaneuf has signed a contract with the Flames back in September.
By that logic then Daymond Langkow should be removed from the list also. -- Vega007
I have added a prospects section, so now he is highlighted in the article. Phaneuf is a junior hockey star and an NHL prospect. He has not yet earned the title of a star of an NHL team. You may want to work Phaneuf into the article itself, since he is the Flames top prospect. For an example of this, check out Alexander Ovechkin on the Washington Capitals page (he isn't in the star players list, but is mentioned in the article). By the way, you may want to sign your posts with ~~~~ -- JamesTeterenko 00:04, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

ok, thanks ~~~~ -- Vega007

Contents

List of Calgary Flames players

I have started a List of Calgary Flames players. When you add players to the main Flames article, could you also add the same players to the list? Thanks!! Oh, since now there is a list of Flames players, do you think we can shorten the "Not to be forgotten"? It is kinda long, eh? Masterhatch 11 August 2005

Calgary Flames / Atlanta Flames

What are people's thoughts on separating the two Flames into separate articles? The Atlanta Flames did change cities and countries and the make up of the teams are much different. Most other teams that have changed cities are split. Masterhatch 15 August 2005

More discussion here: Talk:Phoenix Coyotes ccwaters 17:08, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree that it should be split. I noticed this recently and mentally put it on list of things to do when I had some time. -- JamesTeterenko 17:34, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
By all means split; it would conform to other such entries, such as Winnipeg / Phoenix, Minnesota / Dallas, Quebec / Colorado, etc. RGTraynor 03:38, August 16, 2005 (UTC)
Add nickanames fo the players (Iggy, Kipper, Juice, Mac, Reggie...)
If they're notable, and on the appropriate player pages, yes. On the main team page, no. RGTraynor 14:33, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Red Mile in 2005

I am removing the section about the Red Mile in 2005. Having walked down 17th Ave after about half of the games, I have not seen anything resembling what happened in 2004. If something did happen this season, it could only have been in one or two games. If this really did happen, please cite your source. -- JamesTeterenko 05:38, 20 December 2005 (UTC) Not a bad idea.

Robyn and Richie Regehr

I'm changing the flags representing their nationalities on the current roster, as both players are Canadian, and represent Canada internationally. Resolute 06:34, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, doesn't it depend on how long they lived in the country of their birth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs)
Well, country of representation in international tournaments pretty much outweighs that factor (and every other factor, in my opinion). --Buchanan-Hermit™..CONTRIBS..SPEAK! 02:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
If you want to go that way, then neither player lived in their countries of birth for more than three or four years each, as their parents were missionaries. Both Regehrs ultimately grew up in Saskatchewan, where they learned to play hockey. Resolute 06:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


"Sutterizing"?

That's not anything special about Sutter. That's just standard defensive hockey. It's especially popular from trapping teams like Minnesota, but most teams do it when they have a two- or three-goal lead. Calgary just does it earlier because of their relatively weak offence. Doogie2K 18:58, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Flames under Sutter play a puck pressure/pursuit system, or basically an aggressive trap: Attack in the offensive zone, play keepaway. Completely the opposite of the Wild system, which is a passive trap that relies on neutral zone turnovers to generate offense. I have to ask, what was the point of this comment, aside from complaining about the Flames style? Resolute 05:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't complaining about anything, though I had to suspect this was going to happen. Basically, all I was saying is that this is standard, albeit a bit more aggressive, defensive hockey, and that shutting down after going up a goal or two is not something unique to Sutter's strategy. How he does it may be different from how Lemaire does it, but the fact is, it still happens. Also, note that I said, "...most teams do it when they have a two- or three-goal lead." I've even seen the Oilers do it a time or two this year. Doogie2K 16:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Another thought: Ownership

Is there any way that we could shorten the ownership box in the Team Info box? I know the Oilers' ownership group has a collective name (EIG) that makes it a lot easier. Also, who owns Bud McCaig's share, now that he's gone? Doogie2K 05:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Officially, the Flames are owned by the Calgary Flames Limited Partnership. I suppose we could just put that in the infobox and add a separate section listing the franchise owners. Jeff McCaig inherited his father's share of the team. Resolute 05:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
For that matter, why not simply make a separate article? Or would that not be considered "noteworthy," per Wiki standards? Doogie2K 16:05, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Affiliated Teams

I removed the Calgary Hitmen from the list of affiliated teams. The Hitmen are owned by the Flames, but there are no affiliations between the NHL and CHL at the club level. Resolute 06:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

They are still affiliated... via ownership. Maybe a footnote would be better than totally removing them. The Calgary Flames website[1] even lists them as an affiliate along with the Knights and the Wranglers. --Arch26 06:26, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Possibly as an advertising stunt. "Affiliation," as the hockey world knows it, involves one team being a farm club to the other, and that just isn't the case here. Common ownership doesn't "affiliate" the clubs; by that token, we'd have to list Delaware North and SportService as "affiliates" of the Boston Bruins. RGTraynor 14:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Very true. I think only one or two former Hitmen have ever been drafted by the Flames, most notably Brent Krahn, their minor-league goalie. Doogie2K 16:06, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Yup. It is in the Flames best interest to promote the Hitmen as much as possible, since all revenue goes into their pockets, thus they list them as an affiliate. I have again removed the Hitmen from this list for the reason stated above. This is not a club-to-club affiliation. In fact, I'd like to remove that entire affiliations line altogether, as it is redundant, and is not mentioned in the Facts section on any other NHL team page. Resolute 05:39, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

external link spam or legit

Djstreet 14:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)There have been a number of movement in the past 2 weeks of people removing and replacing external links particularly to forums. I am all for having these fan sites on the Calgary Flames page since they are an integral component of the organisation, however, what I'm not in favour of is repeated changing of the links to promote one site over another. So far there are 2 sites in the external links that are useful, I believe there is a third.

There is no need to include every single forum about the Flames. We should only include ones that are actually popular and useful. If you compare calgarypuck.com and flamesforum.com (which you keep adding) there is a clear difference. Just looking at the main forum in each about the Flames, calgarypuck.com has 11,333 threads, flamesforum.com has 39. Wikipedia is not a collection of external links. I will remove flamesforum.com. -- JamesTeterenko 15:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Djstreet 16:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC) 16:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)The purpose of external links is to provide value regarding the Calgary Flames. The only reason I place Flamesforum.com is because it's been replaced with other sites (same details, just addy changed,) despite providing value. I'm all for having sites that provide lasting addition to the FLames entry. If you had taken 1 minute to browse this particular site you would have seen and extensive picture gallery not present on other sites and over 750 posts in the forum. We do not make decisions solely based on 'greater than' arguments (750 isn't necessarily small and just becasue there is bigger ones means we delete smaller sites?) If your (JamesTeterenko) criteria for external links is forum based only then you need to review the rules again. Calgarypuck is of lasting value agreed, however, for some reason it only surfaced less than 2 weeks ago. I trust you are not attempting to marginalise other sites that provide value to Flames in favour of your own.

The link I provided above states that, There is nothing wrong with adding a list of content-relevant links to an article; however, excessive lists can dwarf articles and detract from the purpose of Wikipedia. On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. See Wikipedia:External links and m:When should I link externally for some guidelines. I consider flamesforum.com a fan based site. As you clearly marked it as a forum in the link, and it is actually named as such, I believe it is fair to judge it based on the activity of the message forum. Since you mention an extensive picture gallery, I took a closer look. All I could find were a bunch of pictures from two practises that haven't been filtered for quality and content. So, I stand by my position that this link is not worthy of being included in the external links. I am not affiliated with any Flames message forum. The only one where I made more than one or two posts is the one that has since been shut down on the Flames site. -- JamesTeterenko 01:38, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Djstreet 04:07, 23 April 2006 (UTC)I don't disagree with what you're saying, however, to me, it's either all or none. Calling 750+ posts 'inactive' is not exactly evidence to deem the entire site without value in comparison to the other two. Is it based on how it looks? The number of posts? The number of users? Because 200 users post excessively to make large post counts means it has greater value? IMO all three are spamming becasue they popped up within the last 3 weeks. So either take them all down or keep them all up. I can only find three total so I'm assuming that's it.

Djstreet, you have one third of the posts on flamesforum.com. You may want to review the guideline Wikipedia:Autobiography. It states, You should wait for others to write an article about subjects in which you are personally involved. This applies to articles about you, your achievements, your business, your publications, your website, your relatives, and any other possible conflict of interest. -- JamesTeterenko 04:52, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with James here. Flamesforum is a fine site, but Wikipedia is not advertising, and you'll have to find somewhere else to bump up its traffic from. Fagstein 09:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm quite comfy with seeing the same criteria we use on AfD to judge the notability of a site. A discussion forum with only 750+ related posts, a third from a single user, is far under the radar. RGTraynor 23:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Red Mile Name History

I don't think 11th Ave. was called the Red Mile back in the 80's. I'm not 100% sure but I think it was just called Electric Avenue. Here is the sentence in question:During these celebrations, 11th Ave became known as "The Red Mile" and the "Red Mile" moniker was transposed to 17th Ave in 2004. 70.72.37.9 03:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, well just as 17th Avenue is simply that MOST of the time, the name "red mile" was really only applied when it was pertinant (just as it is now). So yes, you are right, MOST of the time, it was "Electric Avenue" or "11th Avenue". --Arch26 04:20, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually the name The Red Mile was a play on the Movie/Book The Green Mile which was not even written during the 80's. So it was not even possible that it was called The Red Mile. It was always just called Electric Avenue. --Djsasso 18:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


Brent Khram

Even though I'm Oilers fan (and I hate the Flames), I was kind enough to notice that the Brent Khram (or is it Kharm) guy wasn't on the roster. I remember that was the goalie in a game where Calgary got creamed (9-4) last season, so I think he should be added back onto the roster. Ohyeh

1) Its Brent Krahn. 2) The section is named "Current Squad", emphasis on current. 3) He never played a minute for Calgary Flames. Calgary was backstopped last season by Miikka Kiprusoff, Philippe Sauve and Brian Boucher. 4) It was Boucher vs Nashville http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=260318027. ccwaters 15:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Krahn DOES play for Omaha however, meaning that the Flames can recall him any time. He did play in last year's pre-season, so maybe that's the 9-4 game you were thinking about. --Arch26 00:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
What I've done with the Edmonton Oilers page is to put all the minor-leaguers who are likely to be called up in comments for easy addition/subtraction. Might be something good for guys like Krahn (who, I thought, outplayed Sauve in the preseason last year). Doogie2K (talk) 01:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
You won't get any argument out of us on that point. The thing with Krahn is that he still need to play and he's no going to get that with the big team right now. Should Kipper go down, it could very well be Krahn stepping in for him. Anyhow, I'm not sure that having the AHLers on this page is fully nessicary, but I could see use for it. Chris handforth 07:18, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

17

Who played #17 for the Flames in the 05-06 season?ohyeh 01:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Chris Simon CWood 05:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Franchise Scoring Leaders

I would propose to remove the disclaimer on this section that it is updated after every season, and instead open it up to be updated constantly. There is only one active player on the list and Iginla is extremely likely to pass Nieuwendyk this season. With the current disclaimer, this will mean that Iginla remains 4th on the list until the end of the season when in fact he could be in third as soon as the All Star break. If nobody objects, I plan to remove this disclaimer and update Iginla's numbers for the first few games of this season. Anderal 22:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Warrener & Yelle

Need help here, Did Yelle (now injured), only wear an A (alternate captain) while Warrener (now in lineup) was injured. Or was Yelle meant to wear the A all season (regardless of Warrener in the lineup). Need to know this, for the 'current roster' section. Are the alternate captains for 2006-07 season: Regher/Warrener OR Regher/Yelle? GoodDay 16:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe that Regehr and Yelle are the assistant captains, with Warrener getting the A when Yelle went down. I am not 100% certain though, so I'll leave it until someone else confirms/denies. Resolute 17:06, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Robyn Regehr and Stephane Yelle are the assistant captains for 2006-2007. At the start of the season both Regehr and Yelle had the A's. When Warrener came back from his injury he did not wear an A and Yelle still did until he got injured. Now Warrener wears the A because Yelle is injured. Also, they would not sell Yelle jerseys at the Fanattic with the A on the jersey if he was not an assistant captain. So for whoever keeps taking the A from Yelle, please stop, thanks.

So, in 2005-06 (under coach Darryl Sutter) the A's were Regehr & Warrener. In 2006-07 (under coach Jim Playfair) the A's are Regehr & Yelle. Thanks for the clarifications on the 'current roster' section. GoodDay 18:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I have taken off the injured status for Stephane Yelle, as he was put back in the lineup tonight, Dec 16th. Since he is back in the line-up and have also removed the "A" from Tony Amonte, as Yelle is now the second Alternate Captain.--24.66.200.193 07:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Had removed your edits earlier, but then I put them back. Alternate captain Stephane Yelle IS back in the lineup. PS, you should talk to anon User 68.146.208.102, he'd tried to take Yelle's 'A' away (as I had erroneously, months ago). GoodDay 23:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Update, on the flames game day sheet Warrener returns to the alternate captain for the Calgary Flames.

Have the Flames replaced Yelle with Warrener as an alternate captain, or is the Flames gonna have 3 alternate captains (Rotating per games: Regehr, Warrener & Yelle)? GoodDay 18:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Do to initial confusion, I've made Warrener a permanet alternate captain (added a wiki-linked -A). In their Feb 3, 2007 game, Regehr & Warrener were wearing 'A's, while Yelle wasn't. GoodDay 18:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I could be wrong, but I believe the Flames rotate the 2nd alternate captaincy between Warrener & Yelle (Regehr being alternate captain -every game-). Again, not sure of this. GoodDay 19:01, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I think Warrener is their main Alternate Captain and if one of the Alternates or Iginla get injured Yelle is the first to get the A. Im not to sure though, I will try and dig up as much as i can for this problem

This is not correct. There are two A's for the Flames this season, Yelle and Regehr. The Flames have had many injuries and sickness this season, and as such other players have worn A's for a game or period of games (players such as Tony Amonte and Daymond Langkow). With both Regher and Yelle healthy, they were the A's. I have been to every Flames home game this season, as well as have watched every away game. I am also a huge Stephane Yelle fan.--24.66.200.193 08:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I've fixed it again (it's Regehr & Yelle). Some other anon-user out there is trying to mix things up or he was mixed up. I suspected Yelle was injured, but wasn't certain. GoodDay 20:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I've watched the Flames game (Feb 28) against the Minnesota Wild.

Along with Captain Iginla - Regehr, Warrener & Yelle were in the lineup. Regehr & Warrener wore the 'A's, Yelle didn't. Yet in other games Yelle wears an 'A', Warrener doesn't. Therefore it's obvious, Regehr wear his 'A' every game, while Warrener and Yelle rotate the 2nd 'A' between them. It's C-Jarome Iginla, A-Robyn Regehr, A-Rhett Warrener, A-Stephane Yelle. PS- I've watched the game intensely, rewind it, watched over again. GoodDay 18:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

You are correct now GoodDay. The team has now decided to rotate who "wears" the A between Warrener and Yelle. Both are still Alternate Captains. This is different from earlier in the season when only Yelle was wearing the second A. --24.66.200.193 04:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Article

this isnt a bad page but if all those stupid wikipedia example pics wernt there —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikehockey 99 (talk • contribs)

Dude... YOU added them... -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 03:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Article improvement

I am starting to file through this article and add references and make some changes where I can. The article on the New Jersey Devils was recently made a featured article, and I see no reason why we can't do the same for the Flames. Any help or suggestions in improving this article is always appreciated. Resolute 21:34, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Tim Hunter

Tim Hunter was an alternate captain during the 1988-89 NHL season, MacDonald & Peplinski were co-captains. Proof of this is the 1988-89 Calgary Flames official (Stanley Cup) team photo; MacDonald is wearing a 'C' in the photo, Peplinski is wearing a 'C' in the photo & Hunter is wearing an 'A'. The claim that MacDonald, Peplinski & Hunter were tri-captains, is incorrect. GoodDay 00:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

For further proof, see the external link on this article for Mike Vernon number retirement. It discribes Vernon's then-teammate Lanny McDonald as co-captain, on the 1989 Stanely Cup winning team (not a tri-captain). GoodDay 18:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
You might want to let the NHL know, then. The league Official Guides consistently list them as tri-captains. This does, I admit, conflict with that glorious photo on the 1989-90 Guide's cover (which I am looking at right this moment) with McDonald holding the Cup over his head, a "C" on his jersey. (Of all the captain-with-the-Cup photos I've ever seen, that one's just plain the most exultant.) RGTraynor 18:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Your're correct, the offical guides do indeed list them as tri-captains. But in this case the Official Guides are wrong (in my opinon they simply looked at the photo of McDonald hoisting the Cup with Peplinski & Hunter joining in; and assumed they were tri-captains). The Hockey News edition August 1989 ,Vol.42 No.40 -Page 29- clearly backs my argument. Having watched the 1988-89 NHL season & Playoffs, Timmy never wore the 'C' when Lanny and/or Jimmy were in the lineup. Again, the NHL official guides -retroactively- got this one wrong. My varifiable source then, is the HockeyNews. GoodDay 18:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
No, Tim Hunter was a Tri-Captain. Lanny was the Captain for game 6 as Jim Peplinski and Tim Hunter were scratches. The reason that there are pictures of Lanny holding the cup with Peplinski and Hunter is because Lanny, after being presented with the cup (presented to the teams Captain) called both of them over, as they were his co-captains. When one of them wore the "C", the others wore an "A" which is why Lanny was wearing an "A" and not a "C" when he scored his 500th goal against the Islanders. The NHL is not wrong, neither is every other site on the net that lists tri-captains for that year. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 09:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
Further proof. I am currently looking at my 89 Championship magazine put out in 1989 by the Calgary Sun. On the cover is the picture of Lanny holding the cup with Peplinski and Hunter. On the first page it reads "COVER: THE CAPTAINS AND THE CUP--LANNY MCDONALD FLANKED BY TIM HUNTER AND JIM PEPLINSKI." This magazine was produced by the Calgary Flames Hockey Club and the Calgary Sun. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 09:31, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
And McDonald does not have an a after the M. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 09:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
FWIW, the 2006-07 Flames Media Guide (pg 104) makes no mention of Hunter being a captain. It lists just McDonald and Peplinski for 1988-89. Resolute 15:54, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, McDonald & Peplinski were co-captains, Hunter the alternate captain. GoodDay 15:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, to respond to anon-user: Its been common, though erroneous to call the captain & alternates ,the captains. Example at the start of this NHL season, the Atlanta Thrashers website annouced the re-appointment of Mellanby as Thrashers captain and Kozlov as alternate captain, plus the appointment of new alternate captains Havelid, Hossa and Holik. The Thrashers introduced them as the team 'Captains' for the 2006-07 NHL season. Thus the 1989 Flames magazine, simply abbreviated the discriptions of McDonald, Peplinski and Hunter. GoodDay 16:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

For one thing, you guys are mistaken about the difference between Assistant Captains and Alternate Captains. An assistant captain is nothing more than an assistant, and will were an "A". :: Tim Hunter was this until the 89 season, were upon he was promoted to alternate captain. As an Alternate Captain, he was a Captain along with Lanny and Peplinski. That year the Flames had many different "Assistant" Captains. MaCinnis, Otto, Loob, all wore "A"'s that season as Assistant Captains. Tim Hunter was an Alternate Captain, meaning he was a co-captain with Peplinski and McDonald. Furthermore the fact that Lanny was described as a Co-Captain does not define that there were only two. "Co" is a derivative of the word cooperative (partnership). With Co-Captains there could be any number greater than 1. If it had said Bi-Captains (as in Tri-Captains) then it would mean there were only two, but Co does not. Also, what Montreal did has nothing to do with this, as it is fact that Lanny called his Co-Captains over to join him. When there are Co-Captains, one will were the "C" while the others wear an "A", like as I stated, Lanny did when he scored his 500th goal. Tim Hunter never actually wore the "C", but him wearing an "A" had a different meaning than Macinnis etc, wearing an "A". He wore the "A" because he was part of the captains. Right now, the Flames have one Captain, Jarome Iginla, along with 2 "Assistant Captains", Robyn Regehr and Stephane Yelle. As for the Flames media guide, it also does not state Fleury's 3 shorthanded goals in one game as a NHL record, but it still is. It also lists, on page 236, on the All-Time Roster that Chuck Kobasew was a flame from 2002-03 to 2003-2004, although he was a Flame last season, 2005-06 as well as this season.

Your're a little confused. Read the article Captain (ice hockey). Alternate IS Assistant. GoodDay 01:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not confused at all. Like I said earlier, there were different players that wore an "A" that year, Al Macinnis wore it in game 6 of the finals (see any picture of him holding the Conn Smythe Trophy). Tim Hunter was not in the same group as these players, he was part of the Captains group which included him, Lanny McDonald and Jim Peplinski (hence why the Cup photo has those 3, and not Macinnis as well).
MacInnis & another player that night (May 25, 1989) wore the 'A's (alternate captain), because co-captain Peplinski & alternate captain Hunter were scratches. Again alternate captain IS assistant captain. GoodDay 02:56, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I am sorry, you are not correct. The only proof you have is one HockeyNews article and a flawed Calgary Flames Media Guide. Do a search on the web for Flames Captains, or for Tim Hunter, and you will find that most if not all list him as a tri-captain that year.
Nope, you're wrong, and furthermore, if you add 'Tim Hunter' again. I'm reporting your vandalism. GoodDay 03:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Ugh no, I will report the fact that you continue to remove it, with no proof.

This website lists him as an alternate and assistant captain. It also says he was part of the "Calgary Tri-Captain" in 88-89. Also, there is no vandalism going on at the moment- at worst, it's violation of the three-revert rule, which is a 24-hour block, so be careful with the words you throw around. --Wafulz 03:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Further evidence that Tim Hunter was a tri-captain in 1988-89 http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1979/79054.html http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nhl/calgary/calflames.html (sportsecyclopedia.com used many other times in this article as reference) http://www.azhockey.com/Ca.htm look under Calgary Flames

There's the 2006-07 NHL Flames guide, plus this link [2]. Furthermore, do you have any team photos (anywhere) of the 1988-89 Calgary Flames official photo, showing McDonald, Peplinski & Hunter wearing 'C's below the left shoulder, as they would if they were tri-captains. GoodDay 03:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Link isn't working here, it's working on the Flames article. The Flames OFFICIAL website, (in this story on Vernon's number retirement) describes McDonald as a co-captain NOT tri-captain. GoodDay 03:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, you both may want to be careful about the three revert rule. It is a blockable offense... Resolute 03:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, your're right 'Resolute. Furthmore, I'm losing my cool. Forget about the charge of vandalism, Anon-user is simply trying to fix what he feels is wrong, just like I am. A compromise by me must be offered. GoodDay 04:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Again, Co-Captains does not desern there were only 2, Co is a derivative of the word cooperative meaning partnership. So that argument does not hold water. As for the Flames Photo, the official Flames photo for that year was taken early in the season, or before the season began, in which time Tim Hunter was wearing an "A". Later in the season, I can't remember exactly when, he became a Captain alongside McDonald and Peplinski. It was near the end of the season, and mainly throughout the playoffs, hence why the official picture does not have him wearing a "C". And again, the Flames guide is flawed in more ways than one. Fleury's NHL record, the longest shutout streak, Chuck Kobasew only listed as 2002-03 to 2003-04 instead of to 2005-06, and the Captains list is flawed in another way, it does not list Dave Lowry and Bob Boughner as Co-Captains from 2000-02. As for the Three Revert Rule, I was not aware, and will follow the rule from now on. But as far as I am concerned I am just rectifying what should be right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 04:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Co in this place means 'Couple'. Besides, did you see my 'Link' & my compromise proposal. After all, we both want what's best for the Flames article. Right? GoodDay 04:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The list has (during the '01-'02) Dave Lowry as captain (alone), then Boughner & Conroy as co-captains. Do you accept my compromise? GoodDay 04:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
At my request, I've got 'Resolute' to put in a compromise-edit for us. Check it out (I think you might, like it). GoodDay 04:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the HockeyNews photo I referred to was a 1989 Playoffs ending team photo. The Stanley Cup, Clarence Campbell Bowl & Conn Smythe Trophy were included in the picture (therefore it couldn't have been taken before or during the '88-'89 season). GoodDay 18:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Jim Peplinski

Just curious, Peplinski didn't retire (first time) in the summer of 1989. He played in six games for the Flames (as captain) at the start of the 1989-90 NHL season before retiring (first time). Should we list Peplinski as captain in the 1989-90 season as well, along with his successor Brad McCrimmon? Example: 'Jim Peplinski & Brad McCrimmon, 1989-90'. GoodDay 16:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, the Flames Media Guide only lists him as a Captain from 1984-1989, and from what you guys say it has to be right, so I would say no. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 21:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC).
That's cool, besides what's six games anyway. GoodDay 02:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Flaming "A"

The information about the Flaming "A" worn as the assistant captain A on the Flames jersey is incorrect. It has been used well before the 2005-2006 season, which was their 25th Anniversary season. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

1989 Stanley Cup Finals

Lanny McDonald did not score the final goal in that series. The final 2 goals (#3 and 4) were scored by Doug Gilmour. Lanny scored the 2nd goal of that game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 22:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Indeed, it was Doug Gilmour who scored the Cup winning goal. GoodDay 02:02, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Alex Tanguay

Alex Tanguay was not traded as the 2006-2007 Season began. He was traded at the 2006 NHL draft, on June 24, 2006. Also, Sutter stepped down as Head Coach in July 2006, not at the beginning of the season. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.200.193 (talk • contribs) 22:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

If you feel that some information needs to be updated or corrected, please make the corrections. However, the draft is considered the start of the new season, so to state that Tanguay was traded to Calgary at the start of 2006-07 is technically correct. It is, however, more accurate to state that he was dealt at the draft. Resolute 23:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
The Draft is not considered the 2006-2007 season. The new season does not begin until training camp. Tanguay was traded during the off-season. The reason I am putting these in here, is so that once these corrections are made, they are not un-corrected like others have been.

'Resolute' is correct, the NHL draft is considered a part of the upcoming NHL season. GoodDay 02:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC) No, that is not correct. The NHL Draft is not considered part of the next season. The lottery part of the Draft occurs in April of the previous season. Any transaction that occurs after the Stanley Cup Finals and before training camp for the next season is considered an Off-Season transaction. Contrary to what you believe, there is a gap in between seasons. Tanguay was an Off-Season acquisition, not a 2006-2007 acquisition. http://www.calgaryflames.com/cgi-bin/news/comments.cgi?type=newsroom&file_num=0000000957 here is a link to the Calgary Flames website, stating Key Off-Season Signings/Aquisitions, one of which is the trade for Alex Tanguay. Notice how they go from May 10, to September.

No, that is not correct. The NHL Draft is not considered part of the next season. The lottery part of the Draft occurs in April of the previous season. Any transaction that occurs after the Stanley Cup Finals and before training camp for the next season is considered an Off-Season transaction. Contrary to what you believe, there is a gap in between seasons. Tanguay was an Off-Season acquisition, not a 2006-2007 acquisition. http://www.calgaryflames.com/cgi-bin/news/comments.cgi?type=newsroom&file_num=0000000957 here is a link to the Calgary Flames website, stating Key Off-Season Signings/Aquisitions, one of which is the trade for Alex Tanguay. Notice how they go from May 10, to September.

You are merely arguing semantics. The off-season is still part of a given season. Just like the pre-season, regular season and post-season. As I said, however, the more correct statement is that Tanguay was traded at the draft. Also, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~), thanks. Resolute 03:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
It is not semantics. When the article states that the 2006-2007 season began with a trade for Alex Tanguay it implys that a trade occurred once play started that season, which is false. He was traded during the Off-Season, not during the 2006-2007 season. Also, the off-season is not part of a given season, thats why it is called the OFF season. --24.66.200.193 03:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Career Leaders (1972-current)

The Career Shutouts information is incorrect. Miikka Kiprusoff has a career total of 20 shutouts, but 3 of those were with the San Jose Sharks. He currently has 17 as a member of the Calgary Flames.

Calgary Flames Individual Records

The Longest Shutout record information is incorrect. Miikka Kiprusoff set the Flames Longest Shutout Record last season, 2005-06, of 161 minutes 11 seconds, from April 11 (3-0 Win over Anaheim) through April 13 (2-0 Win over Colorado) to April 15 (1:11 of the 3rd period against the Los Angeles Kings). Again, the Flames Media Guide is incorrect.

1990-91 Captains

Does anyone have any idea OR reliable source, as to wich players serverd as Flames captain during the 1990-91 season? Was the captaincy rotated on a game-by-game basis or monthly bases? Seems a shame to leaves '90-'91 season as just 'Rotating captaincy'. The Sabres & Sharks luckly have their 'rotating captaincy' periods in more detail. GoodDay 14:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Grant Fuhr

Fuhr only played 23 games as a Calgary Flame. Most Flames Fans will deny that he ever wore a Flames uniform. He was not a significant part of this franchise, nor were any part of his Hall of Fame years spent as a Calgary Flame. He was not even a starter when he was with the Flames, serving as the back-up to Fred Braithwaite. As such, he does not belong as a listed Hall of Famer on this page. Note that he is not listed on the Buffalo Sabres page as a Hall of Famer, a team that he spent several significant years of his career with. Also note that he is not listed on the Toronto Maple Leafs page, where he spent more time than with the Flames. Thus he does not belong on this page.--24.66.200.193 05:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

This topic has been an ongoing discussion at WPTT concering who should & shouldn't be listed in NHL team pages' HHOF sections. Currently the consensus is to include ALL players (under this consensus, Fuhr would belong to the Flames HHOF list aswell as the Sabres list). GoodDay 19:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I will leave it up for now, but I still disagree with his inclusion on this page. I understand the consensus, and I understand the reasoning behind it and I fully agree with it, but that reasoning was not for situations like this. I agree that with restrictions that people can take POV into account when editing who should be in or not, such as the case with Gretzky and which teams should and shouldn't have him listed. The difference here is that there is no POV about what Fuhr was as a Flame. He played 23 games, as a back-up, during one season. He was not inducted into the HHOF because of these games with the Flames. To list him on this page is to say that he was a Hall of Fame player with the Flames, which he clearly was not. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. If player A plays for Team 1 for one game, and later is inducted into the HHOF because of his play elsewhere, should this player be considered a Hall of Flame player for Team 1? No, that would be ridiculous. Somewhere there has to be a line drawn. I don't think that it can be disputed that he did not have Hall of Fame play as a Calgary Flame, or that he can be considered a Hall of Fame player as a Flame, so this doesn't fall under POV editing. I opened this discussion to discuss this issue, so I feel it should be discussed here instead of being decided because of a consensus between a few individuals. Having an overall consensus is fine, but with cases such as this, I think it would be better off for this page to have a discussion and decision for this case individually. If anybody disagrees with what I have said about him being included, feel free to post it here, so we can have everyone's opinion on the subject, and decide it from there. But leaving it up to a overall guideline created by a consensus between a few individuals doesn't really do this situation justice.--24.66.200.193 21:23, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I sympathies with you (honestly). However, we shouldn't make the Flames page, the lone exception. Perhaps someday Individual team HOF sections will be added (in place of the HHOF section). Example, this page could have a Calgary Flames Hall of Fame section, who knows? GoodDay 21:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
This was the exact reasoning behind my pushing through the revision to the HHOF listing in the first place; that inclusions such as Fuhr => Calgary HHOFer were unencyclopedic, uninformative, and in many cases downright farcical. I suspect that a significant percentage of those who overturned the prior consensus are envious fans of teams lacking genuine HHOFers of their own, and who seek to pad the totals. RGTraynor 20:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
There's ongoing disputes over the HHOF sections on all 30 NHL teams. Personally, I preferred RGTraynor's guideline. However, I voted for its removal because it continued to invite disputes. The new guideline has also caused disputes. Perhaps my original idea was best, afterall - Eliminate the HHOF sections, from the NHL team pages. GoodDay 22:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
And I still completely disagree that its uninformative or unencyclopedic. In fact its quite the opposite. When people want to know what hall of famers played for a team they want to know all of them. Not some editors POV opinion of what counts as worthy or what doesn't. Yes Fuhr didn't have HHOF stats when with Calgary but that doesn't mean he wasn't a Flame. --Djsasso 20:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
The logic of that argument is better suited for Grant Fuhr's page, not the Calgary Flames page. People want to know what teams a Hall of Famer played for, therefore on Fuhr's page it should list that he both played for the Flames, and was a Hall of Famer. It is not a matter of Hall of Fame stats, its his importance and significance of his time with a team. His very short time was of no importance or significance to the history of the Calgary Flames. To list him as a Hall of Famer from the Calgary Flames is to state otherwise, that he was a significant player. This does not have anything to do with POV, there is no debating that he had no significant time with the Calgary Flames (or do you really want to argue that). If you say that it is not uninformative, then you must believe that a player that plays one game, maybe only 5 minutes, with a team, and then goes on to have a Hall of Fame career elsewhere, should be included as a Hall of Famer for that team. That is outright ridiculous, and Fuhr in relation to the Flames is not much different. Fuhr has no place alongside Lanny McDonald, and Joe Mullen in respect to the Calgary Flames. Listing him there would make it seem otherwise. If people want to know what teams Fuhr played for, there is his page for that.--24.66.200.193 15:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
That's not what I mean at all. If I want to know all the players who entered the Hall of Fame that ever played for the Calgary Flames. I don't want to have to search through every hall of famers page to find out if they played for the Flames or not. It very much belongs on one team page. I don't want to know what teams Fuhr played for I want to know what players played for the Flames. You are looking at the situation completely backwards. It has no relevance as to how much they contributed to the team whatsoever so yes a player who played 5 minutes is just as important to list next to Joe Mullen and Lanny because he made the hall of fame and at some point in time he did play for the flames. --Djsasso 19:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps this discussion would be better held at Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Team pages format. GoodDay 01:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree

Peter Maher and the HHOF

I'm caught up in a bit of an edit war with a user who insists on removing the mention of Peter Maher from the Hall of Famers section. While he is correct that Maher isn't a "true" hall of famer, he is a recipient of the Foster Hewitt Memorial Award, which the HHOF regards as a significant part of its program. I reinserted Maher, and noted that he was an award winner rather than a full inductee. User:Walor insists on removing all mention of Maher and the award. So, I ask, should he stay or should he go? Resolute 17:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

As mentioned on the project page. I agree it should be listed. He was honoured by the HHOF. --Djsasso 17:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
He's not a hall of famer. It's really that simple. The HHOF could have inducted him, it could have decided that recipients of the Foster Hewitt Memorial Award and the Elmer Ferguson Memorial Award would be inductees, but it chose not to. Maybe he should be, but it's not up to Wikipedia editors to decide who is a hall of famer. If you want to change the header to say "Hall of Famers, and Hewitt and Ferguson award winners" then there's no question that he would be included. But he's not an inductee of the HHOF, he's not a hall of famer, and putting him in the hall of fame section is just fabricating history. --Walor 17:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually the HHOF press release said that winners of the award enter the HHOF as honourees not as members. So he is part of the HHOF. Just not in the traditional sense which is why we have a different sub-header above him than builder. --Djsasso 17:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
If Maher isn't a HHOF inductee, then he dosen't belong. Concerning who belongs & who doesn't in the HHOF sections, we've got to draw the line somewhere. Honestly, the HHOF section is going just like its predecessor 'Notable Players' (which, was elimenated months ago, do to continued PoV edits). GoodDay 18:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
But again, he is considered a member of the HHOF as an honouree. Just like someone who has an honourary doctorate from a University. And its not like there is going to be a sudden influx of people added to these sections. Its still a pretty rare distinction. And it doesn't say on the format page that they have to be inductees. Hence why we are trying to discuss the situation. --Djsasso 18:32, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The "notable players" section lacked objective criteria for inclusion. This section does not. People honoured by the HHOF is an objective, NPOV criteria. Resolute 19:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Exactly what I was trying to say written in a much better way! --Djsasso 19:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I still think, we could be planting seeds for 'edit wars'. I'm hoping, I'm wrong. GoodDay 19:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I dont think so. The issue is over whether honorees should be included. The HHOF thinks so, so that should be our position as well. This is why I attempted to compromise by clarifying that Maher is in as an award winner rather than as a full inductee. At any rate, I noticed on the team pages format template at WP:HOCKEY that this section is preferred to be in prose any way. I think I will rewrite this section later tonight in a way that I hope will eliminate the concerns over the inclusion of both Maher and Fuhr. Resolute 19:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, to me. GoodDay 19:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I have made the changes. Hopefully this allieviates both concerns regarding the HHOF list. Resolute 01:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I like this much much much much much better. It is far more accurate and informative than simply listings names, as it discusses a persons significance with the club. Having it this way it is acceptable to have Grant Fuhr's name on this page, as people will not get the wrong idea from simply seeing his name as a Hall of Famer with the Flames. There also should be no issues with Peter Maher, as he should be included under a Hall of Fame category, even though he was not an "inductee". Great work Resolute.--24.66.200.193 08:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I definately like it this way. I might have to try and write something like this for some of the other more controversial teams. --Djsasso 16:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
This is what's called for at the Wikipedia: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Team pages format (the paragraph form). Hopefully this version (and the Devils version), will be adopted by ALL 30 NHL team pages. GoodDay 21:25, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiPorject GeorgiaUS template

Sorry about that. I clicked on a link for "Atlanta Flames" and thought it redirected me here. Turns out it was just relabled instead. Apologies for not realizing that initially and thanks for pointing out that the Altanta Flames does have its own page.--Roswell native 17:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, no problem; good fortune to you. RGTraynor 18:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Retired Numbers

Seeking Wikipedian views - Should we make a note, that Vernon actually wore #29 during his 2nd stint (2000-02) with the Calgary Flames? GoodDay 22:02, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't matter to me...depends on if you can write that in so it flows well with everything else. --Djsasso 22:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
If the team didn't retire it, no, it's not pertinent. (Heck, Bobby Orr started out wearing #27 and Gordie Howe started out wearing #16.) It might be worth mentioning in the Mike Vernon article if that article places any particular weight on the number he wore.  RGTraynor  02:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
The Bobby Orr & Gordie Howe examples settles it. The Mike Vernon entry is alright, the way it is. Thanks for the imput, guys. GoodDay 01:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Honored Members

In accordance with the consensus reached at WPT, I've added 'Retired Numbers' to the Honored Members section (putting it in pros style). GoodDay 19:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)