Talk:Caesar (title)

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What exactly does this sentence in the article mean:

In fact, in more recent history the word imperator came to replace the original meaning of imperator in Latin.

Contents 1 Pronunciation 2 Possible error 3 misleading statement 4 Transcription of "Caesar" equivalents in other languages 5 ae vs. æ 6 "The Purple"? 7 Polish translation

[edit] Pronunciation

Is it pronounced /'kаɪ zax/ or /'se zax/? SaintCahier (talk) 22:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possible error

I believe this part is incorrect:

"Finnish: Keisari & Keisaritar Icelandic: Keisari & Keisarinna"

I think it should be "keisari & keisarinna" in Finnish, not in Icelandic. Finnish is my native language, and keisarinna is the Finnish word. Allthough the suffix -tar indicates the female gender in Finnish (ie. tarjoilija = waiter, tarjoilijatar= waitress), I believe it is never used with the word keisari, and it should be keisarinna instead of keisaritar.

[edit] misleading statement

this line in the article

The Tetrarchy was quickly abandoned as a system, and the previous system of Emperors and Emperors-designate was restored, both in the Latin-speaking West (caesar) and the Greek-speaking East (kaisar)

wrongfully suggested that 'caesar' is the roman way and 'kaisar' the greek way of pronouncing 'Caesar', but in fact the romans also pronounced it 'kaisar' and 'caesar', 'si-zer' in non dictionary phonetic spelling, is the modern pronunciation produced by pronouncing a latin word with Saxon-based phonetic rules. In short: according to modern english rules 'Caesar' is pronounced 'si-ser', but the Romans pronounced it 'kai-zar'.

Furthermore the article states that 'imperator' replaced 'caesar' as the title given to Emperors, but this is not the case for all countries. A good number of countries from the list mention in the article have no other word for emperor than the word mentioned in that list, all of which are Caesar derived, rather than Imperator derived.

[edit] Transcription of "Caesar" equivalents in other languages

The transcriptions of Caesar, particularly from Cyrillic-written languages, is slightly misleading: There is no difference between bulgarian tsar and Croation car, as Croatian c is always pronounced ts and transcribed as ц in Cyrillic writing. Also, Czar and Tsar are merely two different ways of transcribing the Russian word in an English text. The Russian word itself has not changed. Also adding the Hungarian word to the list. Philippe Magnabosco 14:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ae vs. æ

Is it spelled Caesar or Cæsar? If it's the first one, are there any cases/countries in which it would be appropriate to be spelled Cæsar? --daunrealist 03:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe it's supposed to be that way all the time.Cameron Nedland 21:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The ligature is essentially the same as 'ae', but it became popular with Vulgar Latin. The Romans didn't use the ligature so I would say the former over the latter.

[From the article, Ligature.] "Both classical and present practice is to write the letters separately, but the ligature was used in medieval and early modern writings..." The 'Æ' form appears (to me, at least) to be a later development. I imagine Julius Caesar himself would have written 'CAESAR' instead of 'CÆSAR'. Beetfarm Louie 16:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

One other thing I have seen mentioned (among other places, on another Wikipedia article about a specific emperor, I believe,) was that Æ was used in engravings to save carving space and carving time. But in writing, it would always be written AE. Basically, it's a contraction. Ehurtley 14:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The Purple"?

Okay, I came to this page with no real prior knowledge of the actual functioning of the Roman Empire. So I have no idea what it means to "assume the purple", or "don the purple"... It is not explained anywhere. I assume that "the purple" is a synonym for the Roman throne, but explaining it would be a good idea for us newbies, or leave this odd terminology out altogether, if a more commonly understandable phrase could be substituted. Ehurtley 14:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that, given the context of the article, it is entirely clear what "the purple" means. This is a nitpick. The preceding unsigned comment was made by 198.107.240.10 on 22 February 2007

No, it's not a nitpick. I still have no idea what "The Purple" really is. Again, I can assume what it is, but with no clarity. The best I can find is a comment in the "Trivia" section of an article for an episode of the TV show Babylon 5! Was the emperor's robe purple? The throne? What? And what the heck is "accession to the senior purple"? It also doesn't help that it's not capitalized anywhere. That makes me REALLY wonder. It's obviously not an official title. Ehurtley 08:13, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Per this phrase search, from Claudius I on, emperors were distinguished by wearing purple togas. Saw your post on /. 75.18.200.11 12:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if that is still up, but I agree. I don't know what the 'purple' is, and the toga concept only makes a minimal amount of sense. 76.22.13.163 23:27, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polish translation

I'm not a historian but as far as I know we would rather say "cezar" <tsezar> instead of "cesarz" referring to all the emperors of Ancient Rome. We would naturally mean "cesarz" too but "cesarz" is rather used as a title for German Emperors sometimes "Tsars" (though in this case we would probably stick to "Car" <tsar>)