Talk:C minor

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This is the talk/discussion page for the "C minor" article.

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[edit] Natural minor

Hmm... it says in subtext on the edit page that whoever wrote the intro wants it to be b-flat, so that it listed the harmonic minor instead of natural minor. Seeing as this doesn't agree with the picture on the left, and the fact that c minor generally means c Italic textnaturalItalic textminor, I'll go ahead and change it. And would the person who wrote this article (and the f minor article, on that page) please clarify this?71.102.172.40 04:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

You're both right. I changed it from b to b-flat. Oh, and I fixed the f minor page too.71.102.172.40 04:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harmonic minor

I don't have a login account and have never edited wiki but I just wanted to mention something.

The sentence at the top of the article reads "C minor (abbreviated Cm) is a minor scale based on C, consisting of the pitches C, D, E-flat, F, G, A-flat, B and C (harmonic minor scale). Its key signature consists of three flats".

Shouldn't it read "C minor (abbreviated Cm) is a minor scale based on C, consisting of the pitches C, D, E-flat, F, G, A-flat, B-flat and C (harmonic minor scale). Its key signature consists of three flats"?

Note, B-flat is listed as B in the existing sentence giving us only two flats, not the three in the signature.

Since I'm a newbie at this (at editing wiki and at music theory) I'll leave it to the experts to make the change if needed.

The F minor page has this same type of issue so if I'm right whoever edits this might want to look there as well.

[edit] Natural/Harmonic minor error?

The intro list the notes of the harmonic minor scale, while the sidebar lists the natural minor scale. Surely this isn't right? C Minor implies the natural minor scale, the harmonic minor should have it's own page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.70.246.116 (talk) 03:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Be careful when editing!

"B-flat which becomes a B natural in the song because of the raised 7th :)"

There's a grammatical error here -- the clause beginning with "which" should be separated out by commas, parentheses, or dashes. And also, who put a smiley face in an encyclopedia text? No wonder you're not supposed to cite encyclopedia articles...

Also, hypothetically, shouldn't all the articles for the keys have the same form? Some have a graphic of the scale, some just have the key signature, &c. Personally I think they should be standardized. Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Realms of Gold (talk • contribs) 06:36, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The B flat vs. B natural debate

I know it's been changed in the article already, but since it's still in the comments, I thought I'd just add: It's incorrect to say that B natural belongs in the C minor scale. The whole point is that it doesn't -- that minor scales don't have leading tones. Composers are always putting them in because that's how diatonicism works, but check out any composition with a minor tonal area and you'll find the lowered 7th scale degree everywhere. It's part of what makes composing in the minor key so interesting :) At least until Wagner came along, anyway.The Realms of Gold 06:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image links

31-May-2007: In 2006/2007, Wikipedia images required both attributes "thumb|250px" to show a caption, as in:

[[Image:MyPhoto.jpg|thumb|250px|right| My picture.]]

By itself, size "250px" ignores the caption "My picture" (confusing many people), which is considered bad form in computer languages (should warn & be corrected rather than ignore). Just remember to include "thumb" (or "frame") for a caption in an image-link.

Image hints in 2007:

  • Limit most images to "thumb|300px" to avoid crowded text-wrapping.
  • A small image followed directly by a big image often chops text.
  • To resize larger than the original ("oversizing"), omit "thumb" (oversized images cannot have captions in 2007, yet).
  • Beware "left|thumb" (for "right|"), because left-side images appear immediately to left of the text.
  • Most images (99.99%) should be quick JPEG for rapid display.
  • Avoid resizing PNG images (2007): might become 10x larger resized.

Overall, omitting "thumb" is the most common problem.

There are many formatting issues in the Wiki software (used worldwide), with a long list of problems to fix, but in the software world, errors often persist, only to be upstaged by a totally radical new software version, rather than just fixing the irritating problems fast. Note that numerous software systems (not just Wiki) have frustrating issues for years. -Wikid77 03:47, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other issues

[ Discuss other unnamed issues here. -Wikid77 ]

Put back the songs you erased!

[edit] Well-known music in this key

I plan on deleting any unsourced entries from this in a few weeks. (Listening to a piece and trying to figure out the key is not a source, and is also WP:OR.) Torc2 (talk) 08:22, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced?

I find the placement of the "unsourced" tag on the list of classical pieces to be strange. Isn't verifying what key a piece is in easy to do if you look at the score? It seems to me that the printed score for a given piece of classical music is the source that Wikipedia citation standards require us to cite -- am I right? And if I'm right, then the source is already cited here.

I don't know how easy it is to find sheet music for pop songs, so that list may be different. SparsityProblem (talk) 22:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

No. The score still requires interpretation to determine a key. You see a key signature with three flats; is that C minor, Eb major, F dorian? Does it stay in the same key the whole time? It either needs a reference to a published article stating the key, or else it's WP:OR. Torc2 (talk) 23:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)