User talk:C.J. Griffin

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[edit] Edits to Cheka, Great Purge, Mengistu

Please refrain from adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox Thank you.-- Ploughman 07:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

That's funny coming from you - the biggest vandal of all:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Suspected_Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Jacob_Peters
Perhaps you should tell everyone how many times you've been banned as a troll at www.politicsforum.org and how many posts you have had deleted at Axis History forum, eh?
C.J. Griffin 06:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh my. I knew he was a Stalinist POV pusher, but I never suspected how demented his persona was off-site. Very illuminating. --C33 20:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, he's a nut. Just today he received another warning for posting agitprop at Axis History forum: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1012895&sid=e27b003227d200c8170670dd4ea961bd#1012895 --C.J. Griffin 23:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits to Cheka, Great Purge, Mengistu

You have violated Wikipedia's [3RR] policy. You will not be warned again. You have already been advised to refrain from adding nonsense to Wikipedia. Thank you.--[User:Ploughman|Ploughman] 11:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You have been blocked for 2 hours for 3RR violations. You may make positive contributions on your return, but further edit warring will most likely result in further blocks. If you wish to contest the block, use the {{unblock|reason}} template, substituting reason with the reason for which you think the block is in error. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding banned user Jacob Peters

I will immediately revert any edits by this banned vandal/sockpuppeteer as soon as I see them. Thankfully others are doing the same thing.

BTW, this lying troll has finally been banned from Axis History Forum for posting agitprop:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1015879#1015879 --C.J. Griffin 14:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Censorship and the Wichita Massacre

See: Talk:List_of_massacres#The_Wichita_Massacre. 70.23.199.239 23:19, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits to Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murder

I do not want to get into a revert war with you on this, but I'm pretty sure that you can recognize that you realize you are giving far too much weight to one side of this controversy. If you really feel the need to stress the quotes by Mark Alexander, than I'm sure you realize you must give equal weight to the quotes of Kelly McBride. This article must adhere to NPOV. AniMate 09:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, if you look at the history page you'll see I'm not the one who reverted your edits. All I did was combine some of the references to make that section look somewhat neater, which is why I noted they were MINOR edits. I see they've been undone anyway. Oh well....--C.J. Griffin 14:36, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I realize that, and apologize. You're the only registered editor on the page right now, and since you originally added the quotes and boxes I chose to communicate with you. Again, apologies. I'm just trying to keep the page NPOV, as evidenced by my removal of an editor inserting commentary on OJ Simpson to counter balance the claims of the media paying more attention to white suspects over black suspects. An interesting idea, but no way am I letting OJ Simpson anywhere near that article without a major and well respected source that ties his crimes to this tragedy. Things are far too sensitive, disturbing, and heartbreaking as it is. Reading my first post, I clearly didn't assume good faith and pretty much targeted you because of a perceived difference in ideals and philosophies. Peace, and again apologies. It won't happen again. AniMate 16:26, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem. While I agree with what Mark Alexander says in that piece, the page is fine as is for right now, as both sides have had equal say. Although some images would be nice.--C.J. Griffin 02:28, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I added "alleged" to the more grisly details of the crime:
"It has been alleged that for two days she had been gang-raped multiple times, beaten and urinated upon."
I hope this pleases all sides until more information on this case becomes available and more sources can be cited.--C.J. Griffin 17:58, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad you like my compromise. I, for one, just hate edit wars and usually try to find solutions to prevent them. As the case progresses I'm sure more reliable sources (such as the coroners report you mentioned) will become available and either confirm or refute these macabre details.--C.J. Griffin 19:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

A request for mediation has been filed with the Mediation Committee that lists you as a party. The Mediation Committee requires that all parties listed in a mediation must be notified of the mediation. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murder, and indicate whether you agree or refuse to mediate. If you are unfamiliar with mediation, please refer to Wikipedia:Mediation. There are only seven days for everyone to agree, so please check as soon as possible.Shoessss talk

[edit] Request for Mediation

A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom murder.
For the Mediation Committee, ^demon[omg plz]
This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.
This message delivered: 08:20, 18 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Black Book of Communism, Courtois, Guzman quote

MIM has found profound errors in the Black Book of Communism,[1] and the editors have admitted mistakes. How can we trust this as a source.

Also, when (and if) Guzman said "the revolution will cost millions of lives" surely he is speaking of world revolution, and not just in Peru. the whole addition of Black Book citations is POV. --Mista-X 21:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

This is your source? You've got to be kidding me. The MIM are fanatics and liars. No one believes anything they say about the BBoC. I've seen the quote in a Reuters Alertnet article as well, but the article has expired.--C.J. Griffin 21:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Apparently you ignored the fact that Harvard Press ADMITTED these mistakes, pretty funy how you conveniently ignore this. You own source admits to being wrong, apparently you can't. --Mista-X 21:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Prove it by providing a link to a reliable source that Harvard University admitted these mistakes. How about a press release from the University perhaps? Sorry, MIM doesn't count.--C.J. Griffin 22:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Simply contact this rep. from Harvard Press to confirm:

Mark Kramer Director, Harvard Project on Cold War Studies Senior Associate, Davis Center for Russian Studies Harvard University Cambridge, MA 02138

http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/agitation/blackbook/blackb3.html

--Mista-X 22:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

No, you provide a reasonable source and not some link to a MIM propaganda article--C.J. Griffin 22:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
you have just violated the 3RR. It should be noted that the BBoC has been used as a source on many Wiki articles, and rightly so. Even if there are a few "mistakes" as you commies allege, its still an excellent work of history by professional historians.--C.J. Griffin 22:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mercader

Please show a source that he has a Soviet agent. Going to Soviet Union for an education doesn't make you a secret agent/assassin. Also, Getting a medal 20 years later doesn't make one an agent. Most logic and factual sources point to Mercader acting on his own as a disgruntled ex-Trotskyite. But if you have a real source, not some secondary source, lets see it please. --Mista-X 21:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

It was confirmed by NKVD special agent Pavel Sudoplatov, who was under personal orders from Stalin to form a task force to eliminate Trotsky; Mercader was part of this illegal task force (NKVD codename RAYMOND) who infiltrated Trotsky's inner circle under an assumed name. I provided the source, The Sword and the Shield, which contains nearly two pages on this. Another one that comes to mind is Simon Sebag Montefiore's book on Stalin; among numerous others that I could cite given the time. What are your sources, MIM perhaps? LOL! Perhaps you should open a history book instead of reading this utter rubbish, eh? You might actually learn something!--C.J. Griffin 21:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Sudoplatov book is highly criticized, even by anti-communists in the west. We don't know if he was telling the truth, but we do know Mercader was a Trotskyite.

BTW, you are the one who should do the reading. I never cited anything from MIM to do with Mercader. MIM actually believes Mercader was under orders coming from Stalin. I am simply asking for a 1st hand source (i.e. archives) which you can not provide. Instead you provide 3rd hand sources that cite a sensationalist ex-NKVD agent who wants to make money under capitalist by writing a book. LoL yourself! --Mista-X 22:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I really don't care what MIM believes, or how they view certain events in history. It's irrelevant as they are propagandists. And you haven't cited anything AT ALL. Either cite a source for your speculation about Mercader being a "disgruntled Trotskyite" or it will be removed.--C.J. Griffin 22:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be good at using weasel words. Anyways, it says right in the article on Ramon Mercader that he was part of the Trotskyite movement in Canada. --Mista-X 01:29, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Pot, meet kettle. And the article has been cited as inaccurate:
Information in this article or section has not been verified against sources and may not be reliable. Please check for inaccuracies and modify as needed, citing the sources against which it was checked.
And you have the nerve to add a blatant propaganda source (some idiot from "the Stalin society") after all the hoopla you've given me about the BBoC, a work by actual historians which was published by a major university. So your track record on citing sources has been the MIM and now the Stalin society. How can you expect people to take you seriously? I'll leave the Mercader article alone for the time being, but will fix it eventually if someone else fails to.--C.J. Griffin 14:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Gaik Ovakimian "was a leading Soviet NKVD spy in the United States...While in the United States, Ovakimian ran the Golos spy ring and is credited with facilitating the assassination of Leon Trotsky", you asked for archives, this comes from the Venona archives. Questioning81 00:35, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Let's see the source, please show it. Because Trotsky lived in the Soviet embassy in Turkey. Why would Mercader use an ice axe instead of a gun to kill Trotsky and close his eyes to deliver the blow. It doesn't sound like a professional NKVD killing. But, again please show the source. --Mista-X 06:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Why don't you cite some sources of your own? You insist on seeing sources but you consistently fail to provide any to back up such an absurd, and unheard of, position. Perhaps because the great majority of academics agree that Trotsky was murdered on Stalin's direct orders? Members of Trotsky's family were assassinated as well. I suppose they were also murdered by "disgruntled ex-Trotskyies"? Please... Looking through some books and articles I have on the subject, not one suggests such a thing - not one. Here's an example:
“It was the USSR which was most active in sending murderers to other countries. In 1930-40 the killing of the ROVS leaders Kutepov and Miller, the liquidation of the POUM leadership in Catalonia, the assassination of the OUN leader Konovalets, the killing of Ignacy Reiss, the murder of the Fourth International secretary Klement, the assassination of Trotsky etc. were all carried out by Soviet murderers sent to other countries by the Soviet leadership.” - The Role of Leadership Perceptions and of Intent in the Soviet Famine of 1931-1934 by Michael Ellman, pg 826
Actually, I'm considering adding the above text to the Great Purge article.
And in several assassinations carried out by the Soviet secret police, guns were not used. One example is the assassination of Konovalets, which was also carried out by Sudoplatov. He was killed with a booby-trapped box of chocolates. And Rudolf Klement was stabbed to death.--C.J. Griffin 13:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I reverted your(MistaX) last edit on the Trotsky page, but i mistakenly called it a dead-link, sorry for that. The evidence you use from the article says: "When the Trotskyite WRP revealed that one of the leaders of Trotskyism, Joseph Hansen, was involved he was denounced by other Trotskyites. Who was Hansen working for? The Healyite answer was the GPU...I think it is reasonable to argue that Trotsky was killed by those who wanted to disrupt any united-front with Stalin. The manipulation and use of the agent Mercader to Murder Trotsky, certainly does not prove that Stalin ordered the assassination." This is your source, someone saying "I think"?? Do you deny that Mercader's mother was an agent, and that Stalin had ordered the previous assassination attempt on Trotsky? Your argument has changed from Mercader being "disgruntled" to him being manipulated. Turkey was filled with Russian exiles, so the Soviet embassy was actually the safest place for him to live while there. Mercader's own story of the assassination changed during trial, and the claim that he closed his eyes was his own. "Ramon Mercader, a Spanish Communist recruited into KGB service by his mother, the Spanish Communist and KGB agent-officer Caridad Mercader. She appears in these VENONA messages as covername KLAVA."[2] there are plenty of sources on the VENONA project, please read into it. Questioning81 14:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 50 million

If you accept that 50 million is a ridiculous death toll to lay on Stalin, then by your own logic the BBoC is a fallacy, considering they attribute something like 60 million to the USSR alone. --Mista-X 20:26, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

As usual, you have no clue what you're talking about. The BBoC puts the death toll for the entire period of Soviet power (1917-1991) at 20 million. See for yourself: http://www.cooper.edu/humanities/core/hss3/Blackbook.html

--C.J. Griffin 00:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gelately

It's not clear from your edit whether Gelately's estimate of "10 to 20 million" includes victims of the '31-'32 famine or not. Are you able to clarify that? Thanks, Gatoclass 13:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure. The exact quote is this:
"More recent estimations of the Soviet-on-Soviet killing have been more 'modest' and range between ten and twenty million."
He goes on in the same paragraph about evidence of nearly 3 million deaths in the gulags, uncounted deaths in the labor colonies, deaths in transit to labor camps/colonies, hundreds of thousands executed by quota during the Great Terror, and wartime ethnic cleansings. No mention of the famine. (See pg 584 of his book).--C.J. Griffin 14:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
In that case I don't see what purpose is served by adding Gelately to the mix, since his estimate doesn't add anything new and only serves to muddy the existing narrative. Gatoclass 15:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mongolia

Hi, you recently made a number of edits in regard to the stalinist purges in Mongolia. I think the 1991 newspaper article may not be a very good reference, as it places moron at the border to Russia when it is actually more than 200 km away and the roads to the border are in a very very bad state. Also 1991they were just beginning to do serious research on this topic within Mongolia, so the numbers may be on the very high side. Most researchers, including the museum for the victims of political persecutions in ulaanbaatar, place the number of victims of the purge between 22000 and (roughly?) 30,000. The 100,000 number seems to be repeated in S. Sandag's Poisoned Arrows, though, so maybe this would be a good reference for this very high number. However, I recommend to check it against C.R.Bawdens short discussion of census data in his Modern History of Mongolia (Bawden wrote at a time when he was happy to have at least the census). Bawden's work is one that I would recommend to anyone with some interest to Mongolian history, so... Also, it would be interesting to know what newer works by Mr. Rinchin say about the number of victims.

Re. the mass grave in Moron, My sources say that in the whole aimag, about 1450 lamas were killed at that time. However, the source seems to be a bit low on the victims of the 1932 uprising as well, so I won't rule out it is wrong on the number of victims.

Regards, and thanks for pointing me to M. Rinchin. Yaan (talk) 16:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I see you added Poisoned Arrows as reference to the 30,000-35,000 number to some articles in the last days. The number is actually given by Kaplonski (sorry for just giving a short excerpt, no time to type the whole thing): "During the period the book covers, 1921-1941, probably about 30,000-35,000 people were killed, most during an eighteen-month period in the late 1930s.", and a bit later, after stating that the book "suffers on several levels" "The authors also mention several times (p.173) the numbers killed in the repressions as 100,000. ... [The official number of 20,000 killed] is, in all likelyhood, too low, ... , but not by a factor of five". The full review is available at jstor, so if you have access to a good library, you can check it yourself. Yaan (talk) 17:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] France and Rummel

Please see Talk:Genocides_in_history#France_and_Rummel --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 18:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)