Talk:C'tan

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[edit] VFD Result

The result of the VFD can be found here: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/C'tan -- AllyUnion (talk) 10:03, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


[edit] 2 Questions: Outsider theory, and the Cegorach/Deceiver thing

First, is there a reason why people keep bringing up this 'frivolous' theory about the Outsider controlling Hive Fleet Leviathan? I mean, is there something in the canon that makes it worth mentioning? I don't read the Black Library novels, so if it's been mentioned there, then I missed it, and that's fine (a reference would be appropriate in that case). But if it's just some random fan theory, then I'd say it's not worth mentioning here- this is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a place for discussing fan theories.

Second, what's up with the Cegorach (aka the Laughing God) and the Deceiver both being said to have convinced the C'tan to eat each other. Which was it? That bit could use some clarification, I think.

Cheers --DarthBinky 03:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, the only "official" connection between the Outsider and the Hive Fleet Leviathan is that the 'nids go great lengths to avoid coming anywhere near the Dyson Sphere where the Outsider sleeps. Which is perfectly understandable, since there is no biomass to gain from attacking a C'tan and plenty of heavy losses to suffer. And besides, the Tyranids are controlled by a psychic collective mind and the C'tan do not possesss any psychic abilities, hence I can't see any way for the Outsider to control Hive Fleet Leviathan.

As for the Deceiver - Laughing God, it has always been a huge confusion but here is some light shed on the issue.. --Xasf 10:32, 04 March 2006 (GMT+2)

Right, I already know all that; my point was that someone keeps putting that 'theory' back in there (I took it out once, and someone made a point of putting it back in; then somebody else made a point of refuting the theory... see where it's going?). If it doesn't come from anywhere in the canon, then it's likely just a fan theory and does not need to be in the article (or, at the very least, it should be noted that it's just a fan theory, and not a canon theory belonging to Inquisitor So-and-so or Magos Such-and-such). So is there any mention of that 'theory' in the canon? In a Codex (I've read pretty much every Codex since 1993, but I suppose I could have missed it), or a Black Library novel or something else?

Again, I knew that too. It's just that the article here states that one did it, then the other, and doesn't qualify it at all; that LG stub doesn't really clarify that part any better. I was basically bringing it up so that someone more knowledgeable than I could hopefully make it clearer. --DarthBinky 14:31, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

After looking around the web and talking to other WH40K players, I still couldn't find a solid, "official" evidence in favor of these theories. I think it's suitable to consider them false until proven otherwise. And next time someone changes the article in favor, please include some references, at least here in the talk page. --Xasf 17:20, 06 March 2006 (GMT+2)

In my opinion, basically the whole of the Outside section is unsourced speculation and should go. I'm very tempted to chop it down to just "A C'tan that went insane due to its consumption of other C'tan, and is currently imprisoned in a Dyson sphere under the Galactic plane. The Tyranid hive fleet known as "Leviathan" appears to be intentionally avoiding the Outsider's Dyson sphere; despite many fan theories, the reasons for this have never been offically confirmed." --Pak21 15:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree, let's cut it out. And if anyone wants to put it back, let them come with something more concrete. --Xasf 22:29, 06 March 2006 (GMT+2)
Done. Cheers --Pak21 09:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you look at page 25 of Codex: Necrons it states that the Laughing God is the one who drove the Outsider mad. It says nothing about the Sphere, though... fan speculation has Cegorach imprisoning the Outsider in there. It's nice and mythical to have each of the Eldar gods taking down a C'tan - after all, Khaine defeated the Nightbringer and Vaul defeated the Dragon. It's a nice, clean trinity if Cegorach finished off the Outsider.

But no, there's nothing in canon about the Dyson Sphere. The Laughing God/Cegorach did drive it insane, though, as clearly stated on p.25. Shall I put that back in?

True. OK, let's put the Laughing God reference back in, but it would be better to leave the Deceiver out of it unless there is also an official clarification about that. --Xasf 14:52, 21 March 2006 (GMT+2)

[edit] The Destroyer

I'm not aware of this one. Anyone got a source for it? Cheers --Pak21 10:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of it either. I did some googling, and the closest I could find was that "Kaelis", as in "Kaelis Ra" (Eldar name for Nightbringer), can be translated as "destroyer"- this came from a canon story on GW site (this is also mentioned in NB's sub-entry). Looks like we've got some sort of badly spelled fanfic trying to creep in here. I have removed it, pending any sort of canonical reference. --DarthBinky 00:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The Destroyer I learnt from the maker of Warhammer. He told me that the Destroyer has only been made by him and would not appear on the Internet till he thinks to put it on. The Destroyer is said to only be a lazy C'tan and hates to use his powers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph Casserly (talk • contribs)

The maker of warhammer, eh?
Until it's published, it is not canon- anyone can claim "the maker of warhammer" told them. Please do not put info in the article until it has been. Also, please don't erase everyone else's comments.--DarthBinky 00:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] One thing

The Deciver was the one that tricked the C'tan into eatting each as a ploy to gain power. The Laughing God did drive the Outsider C'tan mad. The Deciver and Laughing god never worked together. There plans just worked out together. In the necron codex under the Decivers story line it mentions that it was the Deciver that set one C'tan at the other. It also mentions the eldar gods as the C'tans enemies. If i could remeber the source I'd quoted it for what I have to say next. The Laughing God drove the Outsider insane by tricking it to enter the warp chasing a weaker C'tan into the warp. The C'tan are sun eaters no sun souls (under the C'tan discription in the necron codex). They feed on energy. The warp is nothing but energy. For a C'tan it's like jumping in the ocean. They would drown if they stay. The Outsider escaped the Laughing gods trap but was driven mad by the energy of the warp. I think I got this from a very old black Lib ref mat. I could be wrong about how the Outsider went mad, but the Deciver and Laughing god were enemies not allies at any time.


[edit] catagory?

Shouldnt the C'tan be under fictional deities and warahmmer 40k deities catagory? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.252.212.11 (talk • contribs) .

I agree it should be in Warhammer 40,000 gods and have subcatted it from Warhammer 40,000 to there. Given that Warhammer 40,000 gods is already a sub-cat of Fictional deities, it shouldn't be in there though. Cheers --Pak21 11:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Dragon

The Void Dragon is one of Eldar space raiders. The C'tan you mean is named just Dragon as described in Codex: Necrons.

Could you then please explain this quote from Dawn of the C'tan: "[ ... ] the Eldar fought hard to stop the works of the Necron gods, who they called Yngir. One of these, the most powerful of its kind, was exterminating the Eldar. They named it the Void-Dragon [...]". That's a direct canonical reference to a Necron god called the Void-Dragon; could you please provide some evidence for your claim that the Void Dragon is "one of the Eldar space raiders"? Cheers --Pak21 08:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I'll quote the text once I get back ohome and get my codex. Here is the void dragon...[[1]] And Void Dragon phoenix [[2]].
OK, let me rephrase. Please provide a canonical source for the Void Dragon (rather than the Void Stalker) being an Eldar ship (see The Pirate and the Alien in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada). --Pak21 07:05, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Void-Dragon ships are Dragonship class vessels that have not returned to their craftworld in a long time. This is more of a nickname. "Larger vessels which have been designed to operate away from the craftworld for great lengths of time are often reffered to as Void Dragons." - Page 14, Fanatic Magazine, Issue Three, reprinted and made available online as part of GW's current specialist-games policy, in page nine of this PDF: http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/doomoftheeldar.pdf
Other sources such as the Eldar Codex call 'the dragon' a figure of wanton destruction in eldar mythology, and that they name things for it. It seems likely that in-universe, the C'tan is the source of these names for the Eldar.
Additional, edit: There is also a group of eldar corsairs that take his name, "The infamous Void Dragon Corsairs have been a plague on Imperial trade routes and settlements. They are known to lend their sevices to Dark Eldar forces as well as those of the Craftworld Eldar." - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_ELDAR_22.html Given this prevalance, perhaps the Void-Dragon's entry could be expanded to take in his apparent role in Eldar mythology and culture, a legacy of violence and predation that apparently survives into the forty first millennium.

[edit] notability - relativity

There seems to be nothing in this article that has any bearing on the C'tan in the WH40K game or any related games. It is to all intents 99% fluff which makes it just a rewrite of other peoples published work or a compilation of other works (which borders on OR) This needs to be addressed GraemeLeggett 16:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The First C'Tan

An inconsistency between the section on The Deceiver section and the Nightbringer and Genesis sections as to which of the C'Tan was the first contacted and given a body. My printing of the Codex states that it was Mephet'Ran (The Deceiver), not the Nightbringer. Was this changed in a later printing?

My copy says (I believe it's a first printing), on page 28 under "The Birth of Death", that the Nightbringer was the first C'tan that they encountered, because he was in their own star. On page 30 it just says that the Deceiver was the first C'tan to actually communicate with the Necrontyr, and that's why they called him Mephet'ran (the messenger"). I don't see anything to suggest that Deceiver was discovered first. Cheers --DarthBinky 06:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Outsider's madness

I know the question has been discussed before, but the article still contains conflicting info on who/what caused the Outsider's madness; one place says Laughing God, one says Deceiver via cannibalism. The talk page doesn't seem to have a solid argument one way or the other either. Someone with some more necron knowledge / the codex / other sources clear up whether it was the laughing god through a deceptive warp-chase, the result of cannibalizing other C'tan as convinced by the Deceiver, or perhaps a combination thereof? Or, if it's not clear in the fluff, indicate the possibilities? Sc00baSteve 06:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No warp for other races

I'm not sure about the claim that by sealing off the warp it would prevent all other races from FTL travel. The tau don't use the warp for the FTL do they? The descriptions I've read of their drives says they "dive towards the Immaterium". Also, I'm not sure if Tyranids use the warp either since their progress to and through the galaxy seems to be too slow for FTL travel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.187.188.215 (talk) 04:50, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Hi.. Actually, every other race does use the Immaterium for FTL travel. The Tau don't have psykers and therefore cannot "dive" into the Warp (think of it as a body of water) and then navigate in it, but they use their computer-controlled jump drives to "skip" on the surface. (Up to 4 light years per jump if memory serves me right). So their FTL still involves the Warp. As for the Tyranids, their Hive Fleets also travel through the Warp through the power of the Hive Mind.
The Necrons, on the other hand, somehow found a way around ineartia. So their spacecraft can actually accelerate to faster-than-light speed in a fraction of time, enabling them to cross interstellar distances without touching the Warp. Take care --Xasf 12:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ???

What is the second section doing? It looks like someone meant to post that on the talk page. Colonel Marksman 01:03, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Second section? Which bit do you mean? ≈ The Haunted Angel 08:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] the laughing god/ the deciver

id like to state that it is not possible for these two entities to be one and the same nor for the deceiver to pose as the laughing god due to the fact that the laughing god is a very powerful warp entity whereas the deceiver is devoid of the ability to control, navigate, enter or even effect the warp, there for this section needs updated and corrected but some research may be needed and i apologize for not personally having the time to do this myself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.255.221.159 (talk) 21:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Should notn reflect "prevailing views"

This article should not reflect prevailing views, as wikipeida is a site for factual reference. Citations, please. I have deleted anything that I know to not have a reliable source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.61.13 (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is fiction, right? Then it should say so.

We are not in a world where this describes reality. If this world is described in a work of fiction, this article should name the author and describe the works involved. The way it is written now, it is as if the author(s) of this article are pretending to be living in this alternate world. This is inappropriate for an encyclopedia. (74.8.31.5 (talk) 18:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC))

[edit] C'tan Food

I know that the C’tan eat stars but what do they take from life forms? The article says souls but the on page 26 of the Necron codex a daemon tells Abaddon that the souls are not consumed from the victims. Being a soul eating creature I would have thought the daemon knew what it was talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DTWATKINS (talk • contribs) 15:20, 23 April 2008 (UTC)