Talk:Buzz Aldrin

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[edit] Is Buzz Aldrin Swedish-American?

I saw him in the article Swedish American and he is listed as one in the categories at the bottom. Is he?

[edit] "Regrettably" isn't NPOV

"[[Regrettably, Sibrel suffered no permanent injury." - Regrettably? That's not really NPOV, hoping that people suffer injuries I do not know when but he went on Letterman after he punched Sibrel. It was during the section where Dave answers mail from viewers. One viewer wrote in asking if Dave believed someone has went to the moon. Dave said he believed so or something. Then Buzz came out and said no, "We were just trying to beat the damn Ruskies(sp?)" or something like that.

Should Aldrin's appearance on The Simpsons be mentioned twice? Gildir, Jan 17, 2006

I have now been bold and deleted the second reference to The Simpsons. Gildir, Jan 19, 2006

This isn't Buzz Aldrin Fan'opedia - an attempt at neutrality when dealing with him punching someone in the face would be nice! 67.40.249.122 05:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
And the facts that lead up to it, for instance the slander/libel by Sibrel. Bubba73 (talk), 17:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Are represented - I'm sure you read the passage in question - "In September, 2002, Bart Sibrel's repeated demands (over several years) that Aldrin swear an oath on the Bible that he had walked on the Moon, or admit that it was all a hoax, came to a head. Aldrin had pointedly ignored Sibrel, refusing to swear an oath, and Sibrel was becoming much more aggressive with Aldrin and several other Apollo astronauts. Sibrel often gained access to the astronauts by lying, claiming to represent organizations that he does not, and assuming false identities. When he approached Aldrin in September 2002, he cornered Aldrin and a young female relative, stood in their way as they tried to leave the area and shoving a Bible towards Aldrin several times, called Aldrin a "a coward, a liar, and a thief". Aldrin punched Sibrel in the face, claiming that he felt forced to defend himself and his companion. Sibrel suffered no permanent injury. Although the Beverly Hills police investigated the incident, charges were dismissed. (See here for a video clip of the incident.)" 67.40.249.122 17:54, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Aldrin doesn't have to swear on the Bible for Sibrel. A person (in the US) only has to do that for a legal court. Sibrel is at fault here. And even if Aldin did swear on a stack of Bibles, Sibrel and others like him wouldn't believe it. Bubba73 (talk), 18:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting that he does, merely reporting what happened. 67.40.249.122 18:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Because of the large number of people who believe that the first lunar landing was a hoax, shouldn't the first paragraph of this entry say something like, "...is an American pilot and astronaut who, as believed by many, (or something to that effect) became the second human to set foot on the Moon..." in order to make the entry more neutral?

no. Fact is not decided by popular vote.
Yes, this should be mentioned. For great justice. 17:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely not. Just because a tiny minority of the population is uneducated doesn't mean we have to mention them. Apollo was real, period. Don't bother arguing. The hoax claims have been debunked repeatedly. Please, give. up. --J. Atkins (talk - contribs) 20:19, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] claiming or indicating he felt forced to defend himself?

He claimed he punched Sibrel because he felt forced to defend himself. Punching someone does not automatically 'indicate' self defense. For great justice. 21:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

That misconstrues the new statement: he personally indicated, his punch didn't indicate; he "indicated" rather than "claimed". "Claimed" is a loaded word that connotes "claimed falsely" in this kind of usage; "Kenneth Lay claimed he had no idea Enron was in trouble..." "Indicated" is a neutral substitute. - Reaverdrop 21:16, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I claim that I think that's ok as long as we disambiguate the word 'indicated' from the act of punching. My worry is that we are claiming that the act of punching indicated that he felt the need for self defense! Thanks for discussing it! For great justice. 21:17, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flag fell over

I have removed the claim that Aldrin "revealed" on 13-03-2007 the flag fell over. While he did mention it in that lecture, he has been telling it for years. On a sidenote, I though that in that 13-03-07 lecture he said Armstrong saw it falling over, but most sources say Aldrin saw it. They didn't immediately inform NASA about that, because they didn't want to spoil the fun. But it has been kown for years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.161.74.202 (talk) 13:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

I see the comment has been placed again into the article. Why? It is incorrect. I will not remove it again, but would like to know the argument supporting placing that claim agin into the article, when that claim can be easily proven wrong. I know it's been on the news, but that doesn't make it right. The fact is known for years, and ALdrin has been telling it for years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.161.74.202 (talk) 11:06, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
I looked it up, it's in Aldrin's 1973 book "Return to Earth", where he states he (Aldin) could see the flag fall over at ascent. I have removed the comment. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicolas Herdwick (talk • contribs) 11:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Is Bart 'agressive' or 'assertive'

Agressive has conotations of violence, and Bart was not violent. Assertive implies persistance, which he certainly showed. For great justice. 21:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Aggressive doesn't necessarily connote violence. Stalking a total stranger for years, sneaking up on him and his relative on an evening out and insisting that he put his hand on a bible and swear that his Moon landing was not a hoax, is already way beyond justifying "aggressive" and making "assertive" way, way too tame and slanted in his favor to be NPOV. - Reaverdrop 21:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
In the context of Buzz's violent outburst, it makes it look as if Bart's thorough investigation is somehow unreasonable. How can we make it clear that Bart was in no way physically agressive? For great justice. 21:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
It already doesn't say he did anything physically aggressive... but, per my comments above, this John Hinckley-esque behavior was already far askew from a mere "thorough investigation", and even merely "aggressive" is almost too gentle a description to keep NPOV. The only surprising thing is that Sibrel hadn't already been apprehended by the police for stalking. - Reaverdrop 21:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't see what assassination has to do with it. Trying to get a key member of the hoax to swear his innocence doesn't seem unreasonable to me. For great justice. 21:31, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
He tracked him and other astronauts for years, frequently lying to gain access to them, personally confronting them in the midst of their social lives. This is stalking and it is criminal behavior, of a behavioral pattern nearly indistinguishable from John Hinckley's in the years leading up to his encounter with Reagan. Real historical, journalistic and scientific investigators and polemicists do not engage in criminal stalking. Sibrel should already have been in prison, and I have little doubt Aldrin was both legally and morally justified in defending himself and his relative with physical force by that point. But your matter-of-factly referring to the Moon landings as "the hoax" makes your particular point of view clear. - Reaverdrop 22:30, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I presume that if it were criminal behavior, Aldrin would have pressed charges. Your point of view about Aldrin is not relevant. The video is clear, Sibrel does not threaten Aldrin. For great justice. 15:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Threw out UFO sighting story

I reverted the anonymous edit of 24 July 17:20, which claimed that Aldrin confirmed in an interview that the Apollo 11 crew saw UFOs on the flight. As everyone knows, "UFOlogy" is a deeply unscientific and fact-free discipline and should not be dignified in this way, unless verifiable proof is presented. Apart from this general situation, my problem with the edit in question is that the two sources cited are an entry on www.ufoevidence.org and a Scottish tabloid newspaper printing two-inch-big headlines. In other words, the sources are squarely ridiculous. --Geheimdienst 20:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

It's all the news today for some reason; not just dubious sources. I guess a documentary came out? — Omegatron 21:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Attempts to determine the nature of unidentified flying objects can not honestly be said to be unscientific by nature. It is a field of study that has been plagued by hoaxters and pseudo-scientific characters to be sure, but that does not mean UFOs don't exist (they do - it is their nature which can not be honestly said to have been determined), nor that attempts to determine their cause should be dismissed out of hand (an action that would be dogmatic and unscientific itself). Either way, the interesting piece is that he has chosen to make the claim after so long and also stated that the space agency covered it up. Regardless of whether or not the claim is true or whether, if true, it was actually aliens isn't the point. Him making such controversial statements is noteworthy either way. 208.3.253.171 22:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Christopher

The documentary is going to be on the science (Discovery) channel over the next 4 days (according to tvguide) [1]. I'll be making an effort to watch for this clip (about 15mins into the show apparently).

Buzz definitely said these things - check out the documentary yourself. It's worth noting that the sighting of an unidentified flying object does not mean there were aliens - only that there was an object that was unidentified. The only language entered here referring to aliens has to do with Buzz not reporting the find directly due to a fear that it would be interpreted as aliens and they would be ordered to turn back. There is nothing pseudo-scientific here. Of most worthy note, IMO, is his claim that the space agency covered it up. 208.3.253.171 22:01, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Christopher

The crew of Apollo 11 did actually see a UFO. It was later determined that it was one of the LM garage panels floating about 100 miles off. I'm sure this could be worked into either this article or the Apollo 11 article proper.35.11.183.95 01:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
In his 13-03-2007 lecture, Aldrin said that it was a panel, but because they didn't know which of the 4 panels it was, it was indeed undentified. He laughs at the "UFO" status of the sighting himself. And about the agency covering it up: the crew didn't mention it to NASA until after the mission because they didn't want to look like fools seeing UFO's, so if anyone was "covering up", it was the Apollo 11 crew. Instead of notifying ground control of what they saw, they just asked where the rocket stage was. Upon hearing it was over 6000 miles away, they concluded it must have been one of the panels. They didn't inform NASA about the sighting until after the mission, after which it was confirmed that indeed most likely it was one of the panels. I don't know how long it took before that got public though.

[edit] Wrong Arm

Isn't his left arm crooked, not his right? --MosheA 00:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First on the Moon?

OK, someone go look at the Trivia section and see #9 "Aldrin lobbied very strongly to be the first one out of the lunar module and thus becoming the first man to set foot on the moon on the Apollo 11 mission"

I wasn't alive when this happened, but I think all those books (and wikipedia articles) I've read all correctly state that Armstrong was first on the moon. It seems to be backed up by a source. Yet when I go to the Armstrong page it reads: "...famously known for being the first human ever to set foot on the Moon"

I'm at a loss of words right now. Someone

That just say that he really wanted to be first on the moon, not that he actually WAS the first on the moon.. (he failed in his lobbying campaign obviously)
The sentence was worded in an ambiguous way. I've fixed it by deleting the word "becoming". Pat Berry 04:56, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moving Page?

"Buzz Aldrin" is a tad informal. Shouldn't this page more properly be located at "Edwin Aldrin, Jr.", with a "Buzz Aldrin" redirect? Jenolen 10:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

He apparently had his name officially changed (see article). AnonMoos 16:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Problems Aldrin overcame

I'll admit I only skimmed the article, but I didn't see anything about Aldrin's depression and alcoholism - two big parts of his life. If someone can do a little research and add a passage about these problems, the article would be much more complete. 69.210.56.40 00:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Rendezvous

This article says... "due to his inability to talk about anything other than rendezvous operations". I feel this isn't being very fair to Buzz. He got his nickname because he completed his doctoral thesis on space rendezvous. I don't want to change the page because I've gotten my hand slapped for changing pages without the Wiki gods approval, so I'll simply ask that whoever is keeping up with this page please change the line so it reads a little nicer. The way it reads now makes Buzz sound like a babbling idiot. 67.142.130.14 05:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

You have correctly identified the source of that nickname. While he might have talked a lot about it indeed, Dr Aldrin got his PhD on rendez-vous, invented strategies for rendez-vous, and practiced them during the Gemini program. So he wasn't called Dr Rendez-Vous as much for talking about it as for being the first astronaut to have a Ph.D and being the reference on the subject. He might have talked a lot about it too, I don't know about that. Will somebody rewrite that point in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicolas Herdwick (talk • contribs) 11:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
Done. Pat Berry 05:00, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eugene

Only in Wikipedia have I ever seen the name "Buzz Eugene Aldrin" — I've always heard it as "Buzz Aldrin" and believe that he dropped "Eugene" along with "Edwin" when he changed his name.Kevin Forsyth 14:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biography and band

The Trivia section currently includes this statement: "Aldrin's 1989 biography Men From Earth was the inspiration for the band of the same name." That's nonsense. First of all, Aldrin's autobiography is Return to Earth. Men From Earth is not a biography and was not published in 1989. And if you actually follow that link and look at the band's website, you'll learn that the band's name was not inspired by Aldrin, but by the TV show Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons.

I'm going to delete this statement from the article. Pat Berry 04:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'saving the space program' - source?

What's the source for saying that Deke Slayton credited Aldrin with 'saving the space program'? (It's quoted at the end of the first para under Time as an astronaut in the Biography section.) I seem to remember from Deke! that, while not being exactly derogatory about Aldrin, Slayton wasn't his greatest fan either. I just did a quick skim through the pages where Aldrin's mentioned in the book, and it doesn't say anything about it there. Anybody any clues?--Whoosher 17:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] vidio clip removed

i've removed the clip of aldin stepping on the moon. i've looked at the page in IE7, Firefox, and Opera, and in all three i get the following error onscreen "<imagemap>: unrecognized shape at line 3, each line must start with one of: default, rect, circle or poly". if it's not happening for anyone else, then by all means restore it - but it's the only page on wikipedia that i've ever visited that generates this error, so it sure doesn't seem like it can only be me.Anastrophe 06:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

following up on myself - i think this may be an internal wikipedia error, rather than somethign wrong with the video clip itself - going way back in the archives - two years - it shows the same error with it. i'll restore in hopes the problem is fixed. Anastrophe 06:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roles in the arts

Anybody else think this section is getting a bit out of hand? Surely, only the most notable roles should be listed here, but I'm not sure of the criteria for choosing which are the most notable roles. IMDB lists Aldrin participating, either as himself or in an acting or voice role, in nearly 50 projects, so presumably the list on this page could get a whole lot longer if it's not managed.--Whoosher 10:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hansen quote

this is just a general comment on process - i noticed that two editors have added hidden commentary to the article, discussing whether a quote qualifies for inclusion in the article. i would respectfully submit, this is what the talk page is for. please discuss it here, rather than within hidden comments within the article. it's much easier for others to address the issues collaboratively when it's out in 'the open'. Anastrophe 08:22, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry about that "hidden" discussion

I presume I'm one of the editors doing a hidden discussion. Sorry to rile people--nothing nefarious going on. It was just that I had so many queries --which I did mention in the "save" subject line--that it seemed simpler to request that people go to the text itself. There, in the best of all worlds, a record of who edited what (a la MSoft Word) would present itself, or editors would sign their changes. Alas, an idiotic and unworkable thought on my part.

The second is more prosaic: I left a note on the Neal Armstrong entry for help in getting into the Aldrin discussion, which, as a newbie, I had forgotten how I had done it before. Again, I'm fully an open wikihead. Best to all. Shlishke 18:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aldrin "too big ego" either should get massively referenced or be cut

I believe this has not been satisfactorily resolved. The hot-wire passage begins with

...or simply that Aldrin had "too big an ego."

which is referenced to Hansen chap. 25, is just too hot a remark to be made w/o a page ref (I know editions change; that can be fixed in the ref list) and a squib there about who said it and on what occasion.

The quote marks in the phrase are weird. They differentiate the text from the other two paraphrases, but all three are presumably from the secondary source Hansen. This muddies the issue. It can be read two ways: Either the author(s) of the Wiki piece are being extra-responsible (or, cya) by quoting exactly from the book for this last bit, and thus need a more particular ref; or, somebody in particular said those exact words, and he or she damn well better have (if only according to Hansen), which requires the exact ref and explanatory squib.

Otherwise it should go. It's a shitty thing to say about anyone, living or dead, and if we're going to be perpetuating a disparagement, we're not in a schoolyard, with a did-you-hear-what-he said mode. Plus it explicitly violates a bunch of Wiki policies.

The sentence appears in the Armstrong entry as well, but the discussion belongs here.

Best to all, Shlishke (talk) 07:35, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


Wiki stuff: 1) from WP:CITE

Biographies of living persons should be sourced with particular care, for legal and ethical reasons. All contentious material about living persons must cite a reliable source. Do not wait for another editor to request a source. If you find unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about a living person—whether in an article or on a talk page—remove it immediately. Do not leave it in the article and ask for a source. Do not move it to the talk page. This applies whether the material is in a biography or any other article.


2) The whole article, essentially, of WP:LIVING

[edit] I'm checking out of the "ego" business; I made a change in text

End of my [ personal :) ] "ego" thread with revision 00:09 8 December. I replaced the explicit phrase with quotes with a more defensible one lifted from Armstrong article. Hasta la vista! Shlishke (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MILHIST class assessment

I assessed at start due to the absence of citations in the honors section, and becuase that section in its current form seems a little too pop culture-ish to assess as B. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:01, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plastic Surgery?

From the UFO section:

When Aldrin appeared on The Howard Stern Show on August 15, 2007, Stern asked him about the supposed UFO sighting. Aldrin confirmed that there was no such sighting of anything deemed extraterrestrial, and said they were and are "99.9 percent" sure that the object was the detached panel.[14][15][16][17] He also said that he had plastic surgery.[18]

I am going to remove that last sentence. It has nothing to do with the supposed UFO sighting. JBFrenchhorn (talk) 22:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)