Talk:Butoh
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Removed this paragraph from List of dances in order to make that a simple alphabetical list of dances . This text directly lifted from the other article and is the basis for this new article. The part of the text which is a list of dances remains in List of dances. The accompanying text has been removed. :Sfdan 06:05, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)
This is a clean introduction, but there isn't any-thing here about the more recent and current status of butoh. A mention of butoh in the U.S. and Germany is needed. I'll try to add at least some links. We don't list a Japanese link. I can't read Japanese, but when I entered butoh, I got this page, http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%BA%BF%E8%B5%A4%E5%85%90, which might or might not be a Butoh entry. Kdammers 2 July 2005 09:31 (UTC)
OK, possible outline for stuff to include in the article: influence of Ausdrucktanz on dance in Japan from the 1920`s onwards. Origin of "Ankoku Butoh"-meaning of the kanji for butoh (not just that it means "stomping dance.") How was the name Ankoku Butoh created. Different performers and groups in Butoh and their influence: Dairakudakan, Sankaijuku, Akira Kasai, Kazio Ohno, Iwana Masaki, Min Tanaka etc... Description of (diverse)butoh techniques: use of imagery, (how it compares with phantomime), philosophy, like Kazuo Ohnos motivation for dancing (dead spirits, La Argentina)
I think there is a wide range of ideas and techniques, it might be impossible to describe them all. So perhaps its worth finding similarities between them all. ONe thing I notice is the idea of using something outside the performer to move him/herself. For exmple "you`re a piece of cloth, moved by the wind" or "when you walk, a person special to you is standing behind you." Its a tough topic I find, and I would like to initiate a dialogue with someone about this stuff when possible.Eggnogg 18:08 04 October.
Did some spelling and grammar cleaning in the "Teachers who have spent time with..." paragraph. Also did one content edit: removed the first person editorializing ["I'm going out on a limb here..."]. In the hands of a New Journalist like Thompson, Capote or Wolfe, the first person can be useful. Here it's a Very Bad Idea (tm) which would erode the reader's confidence in the author's ability to be authoritative.
[edit] Origins of Butoh
I read somewhere that Butoh emerged as a reaction to the horror experienced by the Japanese at the Atomic Bomb in 1945. Hence the imagery associated with death, decay, ghosts and subsequent iconoclasm as a reaction to fear.. But I can't remember where I read it and I doubt if I'd be allowed to paraphrase something someone else published. -- Jasna 11:13pm, Jan 16th 2005. (EST)
Many dance critics prefer connecting Butoh with the Atomic bomb, but as far as I have studied Hijikata's books, there were no descriptions found about the atomic bombs. His writings show, I believe, that he was not a political person but a dominating dancer and artist talented also in writing. There is only one thing that shows a relationship of Butoh and atomic bombs: A movie titled "Atomic bomb and navel" directed by a Japanese photographer Eiko Hosoe who published "Kamaitachi" photographic album of Hijikata. But, the content of the movie is very funny although the bomb exploded at the last scene. In the World War II, Tokyo was bombed out in an air-raid by three hundreds twenty five B29-bombers, and about 100,000 people were burned to death one night. It well matches the atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Akiko Motofuji, Hijikata's wife who died in 2003, told me what happened in Tokyo at the night, but she did not mention to the atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is not the Atomic bomb for Japanese citizens, but they are (atomic) bombs. When dance critics use the phrase "the Atomic bomb" describing something about Butoh, it is , I believe, surely an easy rhetorical expression that is nothing to do with Butoh itself. Butoh came from the hardship and poverty that Hijikata and the people of the rustic northeast prefectures had suffered historically. See ganimata or bandy-leg, and crooked back. (T.K.,Sapporo)
[edit] wik link unreadable
The fourth Wik in another language comes up as three squares on my screen. When I click on it, I get a page of squares. I assume the link is to Japanese, but could some-one change this to a more universally viewable link, please. Deutsch Français עברית 日本語 Русский
[edit] External links section
Today I deleted all of the external links. I went through every one, and found most to be simply links to butoh company/dancer sites. Wikipedia is not for self-promotion. Please read WP:EL if you have not already: one key admonition is that external links should be kept to a minimum. Including a link to every butoh company's site would go against this (consider if there were links to every guitarist or ballet company's website). A number of other links were dead, or indicated that they had not been updated in several years, and/or had minimal useful content. Also, keep this in mind from WP:EL: "If the website or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source for the article, and citing it." Doctormatt 19:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Ideally, [1] would be a great link to have, but it says itself that it hasn't been updated in years, so it really isn't good. Can anyone suggest a replacement, a site that has lots of links to other butoh sites? Such a site could be a great anchor for a solid external links section. Doctormatt 07:01, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I started going through the links You cut. I don't follow Your reasoning. The first one is to a Wik site; McLeod is a history of Butoh; then there is one with lots of links to other butoh sites - just what You say You are looking for. Other links are to sites with good pics. I don't want to get into an editing war, so I'm not re-adding any, but I wish You'd re-consider. Kdammers 19:25, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent - someone is discussing this article with me! Thanks. So, my reasoning is like this: links to butoh companies and artists are generally inappropriate: we would not have links to every ballet company at ballet, for instance. I don't know which one you mean has lots of links, but if you mean butoh.net it is clearly years out of date, so I don't think it should be included. What would be awesome is for those who wish to add links to their own company sites to contribute images and information to the article. To quote myself, and WP:EL again: "If the website or page to which you want to link includes information that is not yet a part of the article, consider using it as a source for the article, and citing it." The McLeod link contains information that could be added here: note, from WP:EL, links normally to be avoided include "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article." I think it is much more important that this article gets some references rather than more external links: this seems to be the philosophy suggested by WP:EL. For instance, we could add information from the McLeod article and have a link to the site in a reference. That would be great. Cheers, Doctormatt 20:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I inserted SU-EN Butoh company as a link in response to what I felt was a lack of info about 'international' practitioners of butoh. In the 'international' section, only North American companies are mentioned. The three butoh companies/practioners mentioned do not adequately represent the range of butoh as it is presently practiced outside of Japan. I put in a European company in an attempt to help amend that situation. (Maybe it wasn't the best way of accomplishing the task, but I'm new at this game) At present, it might even be good to eliminate all but the opening sentence in the 'international' section, as the section is simply too brief to state anything substantial.
Furthermore, I agree with Kdammers. The butoh.net link is worth keeping. From my experience, butoh dancers are not that concerned about up-to-date links, being a bit adverse to technologies that intrude upon the experience of the dancer's body. At present, I think the butoh.net link is the best thing the world of butoh can offer, at least in English. Anyways, butoh is pretty obscure. It's not going to have a plethora of online histories or functioning companies. 00000K00000 14:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks very much for you comments. Yes, it seems like butoh.net is as good as we've got for now: I'll put that back in, and take a look at the "international" section. Cheers, Doctormatt 18:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
