Talk:Buteyko method
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[edit] To Do List - updated
1. Citations need to be redone in wiki style.
- DoneDavid Ruben Talk 04:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
2. Citations should be redone. To be done. I have saved all the old references and will be adding them back in (in proper format) over the course of next week. --Spathi 15:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
3. Reword introduction to be more concise and contain the core important information. Done. --Spathi 15:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
4. Some work still needs to be done on the article itself. Done. --Spathi 15:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
5. The end of the article, the clinical studies and external links sections need a good cleanup.
6. Need to add a new section after practice - probably called Learning Buteyko. This will provide short and sweet information on how/where to learn the technique.
Please amend this list of things to do (that is both add to and remove from) as you make progress. Good luck!
[edit] Latest Update
Major update today. I have reworded the intro and rewritten several parts. I have added a much needed history section that could probably use a bit of minor editing. I will add a new section called Learning Buteyko next week. This will follow on from Practice and give information about the teaching organisations and best ways to learn the technique. I would greatly appreciate improvements to this whole article, especially with regard to the following:
- Where key pieces of information are missing or unclear
- The omission of unnecessary information
I also plan to add a picture of Buteyko, (to go next to the side of the history section) and possibly some other pictures. If you have any good ones that you think you would like to use, upload them onto the website and provide a link to them below this line. Thank you. --Spathi 15:06, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Reworking of references/footnotes etc
Previously the article manually directed the reader to items in a numbered References section (e.g. "Ref 16"). This a poor mechanism in an encyclopaedic entry that many editors will be contributing too (vs. single editor who can keep tract). This is because should any additional reference need to be inserted, then all the directions to subsequent references need to be manually updated. Options are to use the Harvard system, "(Name Year)" appearing in the text and then an alphabetically ordered References section (which is normally in wikipedia bullet-pointed vs. numbered-list). Alternatively a footnote system that provides forward and back links and will auto-generate the citation link-numbers can be used – see WP:FOOTNOTES.
As cite.php (ref tags) system already started, I switch the manual links to this system. The naming of the ref citations allowed duplicate citations to be shown in the new Notes section. Please note, yes I am well aware of the abbreviation for a citation's subsequent use (i.e. of <ref name="xxx"/>), but this is most useful where the citations/links are likely to remain fairly stable. In this article there are far too many places where excessively long series of citations are listed and this needs a deep pruning back. The risk though if we use <ref name="xxx"/>, is that should the 1st full ref definition get deleted, it can be hard to restore the lost details to the subsequent abbreviated ref tags. Providing the full details on each occasion, for a short while, allows us to now trim the long lists of citation links, without having to worry about breaking the cite.php initial definitions of named references.
More importantly I have also applied standard formatting of the References & Notes by use of citation templates. Searches on PubMed were tried for all entries to ensure correct citation details and allow PMID links to abstracts of the various papers. David Ruben Talk 04:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Some changes - reverted
Ok - it is good to see people making changes to this article already, but I have reverted the introduction (for now) because some of this stuff doesnt need to be in there.
The introduction needs to be short, sharp, very much to the point and with a minimum of waffle. I wanted to leave CO2 out of it entirely, since there is a massive lack of any evidence that CO2 is involved, especially from western clinical trials that support Buteyko.
Lets go through some of the bits I took out, and if people wish to put them back in, where I suggest you do so.
> "Many people can see results within hours of beginning specific exercises, some of which clear the nose, and some reset the threshhold of CO2 that the Baro detectors in the carotid arteries detect, and signal the brain to take a deep breath or yawn. Most people are able to clear their nose and increase their breath pause in the first day. However, improvement enough to reduce medication significantly may take weeks or months of commitment, requiring daily exercises."
This paragraph could possibly fit in later in the THEORY section.
> "Tuition for a 12-hour patient class is usually hundreds of dollars. In Australia, which has a high rate of asthma, Buteyko training is being considered to be compensated by their version of medicare, due to positive clinical trials and the increasing cost and side-effects of medications."
Simply using "hundreds of dollars" is inappropriate and implies that all Buteyko training is expensive. This is not the case, as the majority of teachers are independent. I would like to mention the medicare thing though, it will have to be later in the "Learning Buteyko section" that I have yet to introduce. That will be a section that covers how Buteyko is viewed in different parts of the world.
> "At present it is used to treat asthma, sleep apnea, snoring, anxiety attacks and panic attacks in Russia, Australia, Great Britain."
Mentioning where is unnecessary at this point.
> "The method is also used by Russian athletes, and has been noted as a major reason why Russian Olympic swimmers have broken so many records in recent years. Olympian Mike Barrowman has also commented that US swimmers breathe too much. A careful observation of swimmers before a competition shows that while others are huffing and puffing, Russian swimmers control their breath and use Buteyko exercises."
This is a great little section and I would like it to have its own area, possibly further down the article. A whole paragraph on it does not fit into the introduction at the top, but it would fit later on. However - it WILL need references and citations.
> "Despite evidence that Buteyko can be an effective treatment for asthma, it is still subject to skepticism from the medical community. This is mainly due to most controlled clinical trials of the method being made in Non-USA countries such as Australia and Britain, and disagreement about why the Buteyko exercises work. Professor Buteyko's own proposed physiological mechanism, the "CO2 theory", is popular amongst teachers of the technique, but has more opposing than supporting scientific evidence.(reference needed.)"
I think we have to maintain some neutrality here. The USA does not necessarily bias against trials undertaken in countries like the UK or Australia. It is far more to do with the scale of the trial, and the stigma that "alternative" or "complementary" medicine has.
I will continue to work hard on improving this article and I do want your help. If you wish to make big changes, please post your reasons here so we can get a constructive discussion going. --Spathi 19:26, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Recent changes (Brisbane trial summary)
I have made a few changes to the Brisbane trial. The prior wording confused "no improvement" with "no difference to normal breathers". They are two different concepts. The latter questions whether MV is related to asthma at all, the former is about whether the Buteyko group reduced their MV relative to the placebo group - which they did, statistically significantly (P=0.004!). There is not necessarily a conflict here, as the trial may have been too small to establish the latter and there is little information given about the selection of normal subjects.
--MatthewToseland 15:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
