Talk:Bush (band)
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[edit] Severe NPOV Issues
The previous version read like a rather hysterical diatribe against grunge (nonsense like Pearl Jam being in decline after the failure of Vs. (!!), an album that set records with the speed at which it went platinum, and blaming the commercial failure of Razorblade Suitcase on Nirvana, since, you know, it just sounded too much like In Utero, which I guess the previous editor thought was a failure just like Vs., to be as wildly, astoundingly successful as Sixteen Stone.
Removed superfluous references to Pearl Jam and Nirvana. Perhaps a section expounding upon Bush's critical reception would be warranted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.218.202.206 (talk) 04:35, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Name Origin?
David Carson, the art director for Sixteen Stone, claims that he infact, suggested "Bush" as the band's name, though the article says otherwise.
"I was standing in my kitchen in Del Mar, at the sink, talking on the phone and I was telling a guy from the band Future Primitive that it was a really bad name. Then later when I am designing the sleeve he tells me that we have to mention his dog somewhere on the sleeve... and the dog is called Bush. So I suggested: there's your name." There are a few other meanings to the word." - David Carson
Here is the link to the quote, on David Carson's offical site.
http://www.davidcarsondesign.com/?dcdc=top/n&w=pin/work/_music/bush&r=1&dirf=works:music:Bush
Regrettably, I know very little about Bush, perhaps we can get a fan's educated opinion on the subject? TheFearedMachina (talk) 22:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Post Grunge?
I'm amazed that a "post-grunge" band formed in 1991. Three years before Kurt Cobain blew his head off. How is a band which formed before Nirvana released Nevermind considered "post-grunge"?
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- That's a good point, I'm changing it to "alternative rock"
- That's why I added "Grunge" a while ago. They're similar to Nirvana and they formed in the early 90's. But at the same time, much like Nu-metal, "Post-grunge" doesn't really mean the time period, it means the sound. Post-grunge is a more radio-friendly, poppy version of Grunge. It was only given the name "post-grunge" because it reached its heyday after the decline of grunge. TheDavesr 21:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
- Well, even though no one really accepts it as is, around 93-94 Grunge bands were the most radio friendly bands around, with MTV showing their videos 24/7 and idolizing Nirvana as the new beatles. Cobain dies and for some reasson the hype around it gives this statement comming out of nowhere that grunge died after Cobain's death. Fact is that a lot more people got into grunge after Cobain's death and his death contributed to the massification of Grunge as a profitable business for record labels (hence all the bands that were given attention after that). If well Bush was formed in 1991, it was only after 1994 that they were known. All that aside, Bush is THE main post-gunge band, mainly because of how much criticism Gavin Rossdale recieved (and this is ridiculous) for looking alike Kurt Cobain (and sounding alike too, yet only the first album's got the most nirvana-sounding songs), in a time were every critic hailed Cobain as the 90s John Lennon, the fact that another musician came doing the same thing came as an insult to critics. It was only in 2001 that things cooled off and Bush recieved their first overall positive reviews, times had change and now all radio's played Limp Bizkit-like bands, something that quickly tired the ever changing market (in its peak, that lasted around 2-3 years?).
[edit] Criticism, 'Nirvana rip-off,' bad reviews
I think it is worthwhile to note that, while they are a successful band, their albums got bad reviews overall and a main criticism was that their sound was derivitve. Several critics said Bush was blatanly ripping off Nirvana and that Gavin Rossdale can't write lyrics.
Dave Grohl even said, in a '96 Melody Maker piece, "If you look at the bands that are really popular in America now you've got Bush and you've got Silverchair. Why are these bands popular? I'll tell you: Bush sound an awful lot like Nirvana used to. Now Nirvana aren't really around any more, but hey!! This band sounds like Nirvana and they tour!!! So you can go see 'em live and relive the Nirvana glory days!!!"
Here's some examples of the kind of reviews Bush got.
Here's a quote from an Allmusic Guide review to "Sixteen Stone"
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:r69ss39ua3bg
"Bush turn in an album that follows all the rules and sounds of American hard rock, specifically Nirvana and Pearl Jam. Their songwriting isn't original, nor is it particularly catchy. What makes "Everything Zen" and "Little Things" memorable is the exact reproduction of all of Nirvana's trademarks, only with a more professional execution."
Here's a quote from the Amazon.com review of "Sixteen Stone"
"If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Nirvana should've been quite flattered by Sixteen Stone. The English quartet perfectly mimics the early '90s grunge sound with this '94 release. As for Kurt Cobain comparisons, singer Gavin Rossdale has a captivating voice, but lyrics are not his forte, as the splintered ramblings of "Everything Zen" indicates. (Gotta do better than "There's no sex in your violence.") The players meanwhile produce a perfectly competent approximation of their Northwestern heroes. "Little Things" is a successful rewrite of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" while "Machinehead" crunches like Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. In fact, the whole album feels like a throwback to 1992."
Here's a quote from a Rolling Stone review of "Razorblade Suitcase"
http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/bush/albums/album/242869/rid/5944129/
"Unfortunately, for all of their strained attempts at artistic credibility, Bush refuse to let go of the hackneyed posturing that catapulted them up the charts. As a songwriter, frontman Gavin Rossdale relies on nonsensical couplets like, "Do you feel the way you hate?/Do you hate the way you feel?" ("Greedy Fly"). It's bad enough that in "Straight No Chaser," Bush consciously ape the mallternative power-ballad format of their big hit "Glycerine" – but to name the former after the great jazz standard by Thelonious Monk is unbearably pretentious and insulting.
The band's derivative tendencies are everywhere: "Swallowed" borrows liberally from the Pixies' abrasive melodicism; "Synapse" looks a little too closely to PJ Harvey for inspiration. And let's not forget Nirvana – Rossdale's vocals in "Insect Kin" are a blurred xerox of Kurt Cobain's, just as the chord progression in "Mouth" uncomfortably recalls "Heart-Shaped Box." Moments like these make one wish that Bush would just accept their status as the Bon Jovi of grunge. When Rossdale sings, "We are servants to our formulaic ways," in "Greedy Fly," it hits a little too close to home. (RS 749)"
Here's an allmusic guide review for "Razorblade Suitcase"
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=10:4gx7gj4ro6im
"Bush were criticized from most quarters of the music press for sounding too much like Nirvana on their debut album, Sixteen Stone, so in order to shed all of the comparisons, well, they hired producer Steve Albini (Nirvana, Pixies, PJ Harvey) and proceeded to record their own version of Nirvana's dark, difficult In Utero. Actually, Razorblade Suitcase, Bush's second album, cribs heavily from two of Albini's best productions, In Utero and Pixies' Surfer Rosa -- they even hired Vaughan Oliver, the designer behind Surfer Rosa, to do the artwork. Of course, relying so much on their idols only brings out Bush's weakness."
--—Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.2.242.169 (talk • contribs)
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- There was such section before, but it was erased for unknown reassons (god bless angsty edits).
[edit] go on a hiatus?
"Hiatus may refer to:
* Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
hi‧a‧tus /haɪˈeɪtəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hahy-ey-tuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -tus‧es, -tus. 1. a break or interruption in the continuity of a work, series, action, etc. 2. a missing part; gap or lacuna: Scholars attempted to account for the hiatus in the medieval manuscript. 3. any gap or opening. 4. Grammar, Prosody. the coming together, with or without break or slight pause, and without contraction, of two vowels in successive words or syllables, as in see easily. 5. Anatomy. a natural fissure, cleft, or foramen in a bone or other structure. [Origin: 1555–65; < L hiātus opening, gap, equiv. to hiā(re) to gape, open + -tus suffix of v. action]
—Related forms hi‧a‧tal, adjective"
Overally complicated; what is wrong with: "the band decided to split up."? From the definition above I am not sure - go on a hiatus - makes any sense.
- Well, they didnt really split up, thats why we cant use that phrase. When a band breaks, they give a press release stating that they split and that they are all going solo now, that just didnt happend with Bush. Therefor: Hiatus
[edit] Equipment
Big Muff?
I thought Gavin was famous for using a (or even several) Bixonic Expandora Distortion. I think he did use a big muff, but it should be the Expandora which gets the biggest mention.
[edit] What?
This article needs to be fixed. It is poorly written. Also, Linkin Park and Lifehouse aren't grunge. The former is nu-metal and the latter is alternative/post-grunge. There were no waves of grunge, it's not like punk rock. Sherlock32 05:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- The entire article needs serious cleanup, especially the section on the different albums - it's written very poorly. Some items are just patently false like "Grunge music did not at the time have a band whose sales were as big as pop artists..."; that is definitely not true as Nirvana's Nevermind knocked Michael Jackson's Dangerous off the top of the Billboard charts. --JD79 18:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
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- Moreover, the entire article is biased. After reading the article you feel like Bush was unfairly passed-over by the changing music scene, rather than their lack of talent as the true reason of their disappearance.
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Bush - Zen X Four.jpg
Image:Bush - Zen X Four.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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[edit] Foo Fighters Grunge?
Foo fighters aren't close to resembling a grunge sound and are clearly an alternative/pop band.
