Talk:Bury
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Greater Manchester , a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Greater Manchester-related articles. In so doing it works and collaborates with its mother project WikiProject UK Geography . If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. Please also feel free to join in the discussions on the project's talk page. | |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. (Add assessment comments) | |
| Top | This article has been rated as top-importance within the Greater Manchester WikiProject. | |
 |
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject UK geography, a user-group dedicated to building a comprehensive and quality guide to places in the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you wish to participate, share ideas or merely get tips you can join us at the project page where there are resources, to do lists and guidelines on how to write about settlements. | |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. (Add assessment comments) | |
| Mid | This article has been rated as mid-importance within the UK geography WikiProject. | |
 |
This article needs a photo. | |
Contents |
[edit] Bury College reference added by 80.5.160.8
Is this pertinent to this page, it just doesn't seem to add anything. Unless we add a schools/colleges section and list them all under that.
Mariocki 00:45, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)ok
[edit] Hill walk
Couldn't we remove the bit at the end of the Easter walk up Holcombe Hill. It's a bit wordy and opinionated?Derby Dave 06:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Depersonalising
The Bury page ahas been changed a few times to include personal opinion. I have reverted and removed these when I spot them. Wiki asks us to keep things neutral and not to include personal opinion and long winded rants. I will continue to change these errors (usually made by an anonymous contributer) and so maintain the integrity of the page and the website. Derbydave 13:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Etymology
There's an annoying exchange going on at the moment where the etymology is being erroneously changed to say that locals do not pronounce the town's name as "Burry". Having lived here all my life I feel suitably qualified to correct this error. Only the people who settle in the town say "berry" and stand out by doing so. Derbydave 19:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
- Not strictly true - I was born in Bury, lived there until I was 5 and returned when I was 10 and I am one of those "berry" pronouncers. Having said that, I was always criticised by other locals for "sounding posh" and not pronouncing it properly, so whilst not every "berry" pronouncer is a "settler", I'm content that we are the exception rather than the rule!! Larkim 12:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm think I finally understand this argument. How old is Derbydave? I'm 25, born and raised in Bury and I find that the vast majority of people who live in Bury pronounce it as "Berry", I for one have always pronounced it Berry and I never recall ever being corrected by anyone, therefore I cannot accept that "locals pronounce it Burry". I am not a "settler", however I am a "2nd generation settler".
I'm guessing that the traditional pronounciation "Bury" has diluted over the years and especially with the younger generation. You say only settlers pronounce it Berry and "stand out for doing so"? My mother and father come from Manchester in the 1970's, as I understand a lot of people migrated to Bury due to the "Manchester overflow" and were accomodated by new subsurban estates being built in places like Greenmount, Brandlesholme, Tottington. Me ma and pa tell me that people from Ramsbottom (in the ye olde stone houses) had a much broader accent than the young couples on the new estates ("settlers") and would say things like "go terr pub up th'ill".
If for example 40% (maybe more?) of people in Bury aged 8 - 25 have parents born and raised elsewhere in Greater Manchester (and therefore pronounce it Berry) then they will naturally follow suit. Another factor may be that Bury has become less isolated (and more "Mancunian") due to the Metrolink and M66 extension (and thus many more Bury residents commute to their jobs in Manchester than was the case pre 1970's. If this theory is correct then perhaps it should read...
"The traditional pronunciation of Bury is "Burry", however people from outside of Bury (especially Mancunians) have always pronounced the town's name as "Berry". Today there is a large mix between the two pronunciations, this mix is due to the town's suburban location whereby the town attracted a large influx of settlers from central Manchester (especially in the 1970's); The isolation (and identity) of Bury has consequently merged with that of Manchester over recent decades. Other influential factors may include the extension of the M66 motorway from Manchester to Bury/Rawtenstall and the Metrolink rail line making commuting to the city centre very practical.
Is the pronunciation affected by "class"? Do people who say "burry" say "bus" or "buzz"? How do/did people from Yorkshire and elsewhere pronounce Bury? Similar debate over Shrewsberry, Shrewsburry and Shrowsburry I believe? Not to mention Bulton or Bolton.Parkinpants 21:00 December 28th 2006 (UTC)
Chris Bainbridge from Bury... http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/yourvoice/feature1.shtml I spent the first few years of my life on Tyneside... We moved to just north of Manchester when I was little, so I had to learn a new way of talking. The local accent in Prestwich was a bit like today's Manchester twang, a bit nasal. But just three or four miles up the road they talk Lancashire, like Peter Kay (as I found when I went to secondary school). The Mancunians used to deride the Bury lot, and call them "Farmers", or "Yonners" (why? Because they come from "over yon"!). I live in Bury now, the very name of which is a one-word linguistic test. You can tell a Manc by the way they pronounce "Bury" as "Berry". My old compadres the Geordies (as well as the Scots) say "Burry". The locals, however, pronounce it somewhere in between, with a vowel sound like a shortened version of the French "beurre", or a German "o-umlaut".
What's my age got to do with anything? Percieved pronunciation is a subjective thing. Your 25 Parkinpants ..... and? I really don't think the extended paragraph you suggest is appropriate for this article. It's accurate but very wordy for something which doesn't really matter to people reading the article for the first time. We disagree and your suggested paragraph solves our difference quite eloquently but compared to the article in total, it's very long. After this discussion I feel we should let it lie. Thank you Chris for your interesting and impartial contribution. This is an encyclopedia and it's refreshing to see it treated as such. Long may it continue. Derbydave 00:29, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
It is quite simple what your age and my age has to do with things. If you are born in Bury and are a lot older than me than you will know how accurate my reasoned guess is, you will (if correct) remember a time when no-one said Berry until the Mancs invaded. If you are of a similar age and you still think most people say Burry then my next question would have been where in Bury do you live.
I still think that the pronunciation of the name of a town is relevant and interesting and worthy of inclusion, especially if one day the traditional pronunciation of "burry" is lost forever due to Manc influence:). Given that the article is well chaptered it is easy enough for a browser to skim over any sections of no personal interest.
- Is it pronounced Durbydave or Darbydave :) ? Parkinpants 01:03 December 29th 2006 (UTC)
I live in Radcliffe and would say that most people who live there say 'Berry' whereas others (certainly from Radcliffe at least) use 'Burry' Dj222 14:57, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Just to confuse matters more, I would like to point out that speakers of "broad Yorkshire" always call it "burry" just because that is how we would say the word "bury" or "buried". 195.12.230.130 12:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Although Iranian is an Indo-European language and there may well be a cognate for "bury" in Iranian which means something like "fort", I am highly skeptical of the statement that the name "Bury" is actually derived from Iranian -- it seems far more likely that the town's name, and the Iranian word are derived from a much older common source (i.e. Proto-Indo-European). Unless someone can cite a reliable source in favour of keeping it, I'd suggest ditching the word "Iranian" from the Etymology section. 81.2.120.180 (talk) 10:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Harcles/Holcolme
I notice that Harcles Hill has been changed to the more commonly-used Holcolme Hill. Is this wanted, as I believe that the hill is truly called Harcles?
IMHO Harcles Hill is the clear summit marked by a cairn to the north of 'Holcombe Hill', which although not blessed by the name on OS maps is a separate, albeit subsidiary summit, with a low point between it and Harcles Hill, and therefore deserving of a separate name. This approach is reinforced by the name being the one in common usage - I therefore would propose that Holcombe Hill be the one used ? cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimet (talk • contribs) 22:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. With respect, Jimet, this is an encyclopaedia which professes in its articles to be a factual rather than a subjective piece of work. OS maps are recognised and recorded over time and are not based on hearsay. A hill's name is not 'blessed' by its inclusion. It is there because that's what it's called. The slight rise to the south of Harcles hasn't got a name and is part of Holcombe Moor as is Harcles Hill, Bull Hill and all the other various dips and rises. Common usage in this case is inaccurate. I propose that the article stays as it is with the correct names being used for the features described. Derbydave (talk) 21:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Source
Just a note that this may prove to be a useful source for those editors who contribute to the article regularly. -- Jza84 · (talk) 22:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
