Talk:Burt Reynolds/Archive 1

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Burt's Website

Burt's website is up and running. With no mention of Birthplace anywhere. It only mentions where he lives now.Rogue Gremlin 20:52, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

This information is out of date. Burt's Official website now has a 'Features' section that contains a 'Personal FAQ' which states that Burt was born in Lansing, Michigan:

http://www.burtreynolds.com/features.personal_faqs/ JSDA 04:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

That was just added. Besides it is obvious the person doing the page is just regurjitating facts found on the web and not fact checking. Because here is another "LIE" that is in the personal FAQs "Reynolds was drafted by the Baltimore Colts, but injured his knee before the start of the season" I can provide you all the draft information, He was NEVER drafted by any team. And his knee injury happened while still at FSU. I also noticed how the whole site overly refers to him in the third person. Bottom line is in his televised interviews when asked his birthplace, he says Waycross, Georgia. He has said it about 10 different interviews, and there isn't one televised interview where he says Michigan.Rogue Gremlin 03:21, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

- Well there's a real surprise. Elsewhere on this page you say:

"His website will be up and running soon. The discussion will be over then" "Give Burt a chance to get his website up and running. Then we'll see" "His birthplace is to remain as is until his website is put back online."

....but as predicted, you change your tune when Burt's Official site comes back and confirms what the genealogical records, newspaper clippings, city directories, and his autobiography show. Something tells me if his official site came back and said Waycross, GA was his birthplace, the site would be gospel, and our saying "Well, thats obviously not right" would just be sour grapes on our part and 'disputed' would be replaced on the main page with 'Waycross, GA' as his birthplace (tell me I'm wrong there...you know I'm not). You might want to check with VPI (the company that manages Burt's Official site). When I asked them about the birthplace info, they came back a week or so later and wrote (and I quote), "We have confirmed that Burt's birthplace was Lansing, Michigan. We have also posted it online: http://burtreynolds.com/features.personal_faqs/ I hope this helps to clear things up." And note, I didn't ask them any leading questions, or give any indication where 'I' thought he was born. I simply wrote that I'd noticed Burt's page doesn't contain any information on his birthplace, and there is a good deal of debate as to whether it was Lansing, MI or Waycross, GA, and I was wondering if they could clear up the issue once and for all. JSDA 06:15, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

- - Furthermore, above you say "Bottom line is in his televised interviews when asked his birthplace, he says Waycross, Georgia. He has said it about 10 different interviews, and there isn't one televised interview where he says Michigan." I'm sorry, that IS NOT the 'bottom line'. The bottom line is genealogical evidence, census records, birth indexes, newspaper articles citing Burt stating he was born in Lansing, his father stating that he doesn't know where the Waycross info came from, but its wrong, his autobiography and his official website indicating that he is from Lansing. You're trying convince people that all of that should be thrown out because you saw Burt say (on about 10 shows) that he was born in Waycross. First, I find it hard to believe that the subject of where he was born came up on that many talk shows. Its just not that common of a talk show subject. Second, you're trying to convince people to go on your word of what you saw. Please cite show transcipts, video of Burt stating that, or ANYTHING that backs what you say. So far we've provided census records, newspaper clippings, birth indexes, etc. that match with his autobiography and official website, and you've provided nothing but "I saw on TV" and asked us to go do the research of your 'proof' ourselves. I'd say its way passed time that you start providing some proof of your own. Last, even if Burt did say on some shows that he was born in Waycross (again, yet to be proven by anyone), you yourself said below in the "botton line" section (and then later deleted) that Burt isn't exactly known for being the most truthful person in the world on a number of subjects....and knowing that he considers himself a southerner, it wouldn't be surprising that he would say he is from there and leave it at that. JSDA 21:18, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

- you just proved my point about the website ever further, by you having to provide information for them. Also the list of television shows have been provided on several occasions. Furthermore if i were having a face to face conversation with you and you told me you were born in one place, but it is written you are born in another, I am going to take you at your word, (What i saw you say, and not what someone wrote down saying you said it)Rogue Gremlin 21:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

so here's the thing, in every personal interview on TV when asked of his birthplace, he says "Waycross, Georgia" so why don't you provide 1 where he says michigan.Rogue Gremlin 22:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - Maybe you should try reading what I wrote. I didn't provide information to them. I asked them to clarify his birthplace because they didn't note it on the site initially. Not only am 'I' not proving your point, YOU have yet to prove your point (obviously because its unprovable). The next piece of documented evidence you provide that shows Burt was was born in Waycross, Georgia will be your first. On the other hand (in addition to what Burt's Official website and autobiography show), Lugnut and myself have provided the following pieces of evidence:

Evidence you have shown? "I saw Burt say on 10 or so talk shows that he was born in Waycross." Who is proving who's point again?

I also noticed that you conveniently side-stepped the issue of you waiting for Burt's Official site to show where he was born to 'settle the issue', now (since they didn't say Waycross) Burt Reynolds' Official website's integrity is under Rogue-attack. Laughable. The list of shows has been provided? Where? Where are the transcripts of '10 talk shows' covering where Burt Reynolds was born? Don't give me a wild goose chase of your supposed proof. YOU show us the transcripts of these interviews where Burt states "I was born in Waycross, GA". And again, I'm not even saying I'm convinced that he's never claimed he was from Waycross somewhere in the past, but as you yourself said in stating that Burt might next claim he was from another planet (or something to that affect before you deleted your entry), we need to see evidence, not "I saw him say on TV". A case doesn't get much more flimsy than that. JSDA 02:14, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - I was just reading this page over again and found it pretty humorous. Lets revisit the evidence provided by Lugnut & myself supporting that Burt Reynolds was born in Lansing, Michigan and Rogue’s responses to these:

1. Autobiography implies Burt was born in Lansing, not in the south. Rogue’s explanation: Autobiography was ghost written and is wrong.
2. Burt’s Official website states he was born in Lansing, Michigan. Rogue’s explanation: Website is wrong, just repeats wrong info from elsewhere.
3. VPI (company hired to design & create Burt’s Official website) states they have ‘confirmed’ Burt was born in Lansing. Rogue’s explanation: ???
4. City directories from Lansing, Michigan show Burt’s parents lived in Lansing from 1923 through 1941 (Burt was born in 1936). Not only that, but in 1936 they were living on Donora St. (where Rogue has acknowledged that Burt Reynolds lived when he was born). Rogues explanation: None, other than it is a coincidence that there is a Donora St. in Lansing, Michigan where a Burton M. Reynolds and Fern H. Reynolds just happened to live. (note: Burt’s autobiography states that he lived on ‘Donora Street’. Not Danora Drive (which is the only name close to this near Waycross, GA)
5. Burton Leon Reynolds’ birth is noted in the Ingham County Birth Index in 1936. This is the county where Lansing is located (images of the index are provided). Rogue’s response: These documents are posted on a page hosted by Lugnut, therefore they easily could be created or modified. They also would not hold up in court since it’s a photocopy. (Note: Lugnut provides a link to the FHL catalog where anyone can request a copy of the films to verify their authenticity). He also questions the FHL’s legitimacy as a reliable source of information. (he really tried to cover all of his bases on this one...and who can blame him? We're looking at the next best thing to seeing Burt's birth certificate, which we couldn't see because he is a living individual)
6. In 1974, Wanda Bookman (a cousin of Burt’s) brings a photocopy of Burt’s birth certificate to the Lansing State Journal showing that Burt was born on Feb. 11, 1936 in Lansing, MI. The birth certificate shows that Burt’s father was Burton Milo Reynolds and his mother was Fern H. Miller. Mrs. Bookman had to show that she was related to Burt to get a copy of the birth certificate. Rogues response: Rogue doesn’t believe anything from the Lansing State Journal since it states that Burton ‘Milo’ Reynolds was Burt’s father, which he contends is incorrect (Note: See Census record info in #13 below)
7. Paul Corey, an old friend of Burt’s father who served in the same unit with him in the war, visits Burt’s father and Burt’s father confirms that he was born on Donora Street in Lansing and also says that he has no idea why so many biographies state that his son was born in Georgia when it simply isn’t true. Rogue’s response: ???
8. 1987 - Lansing State Journal cites a telephone interview with Burt Reynolds where he states, “I was born in Lansing on Donora Street, but then we moved to Georgia and Florida.” Rogue’s response: Claims this was not a phone interview with Burt Reynolds, but rather a quote from an interview about Burt. Rogue does concede that Burt was born on a 'Donora Street'. The only Donora Street's in the U.S. are in Lansing, MI and Pittsburg, PA
9. 1987 – Burt Reynolds visits the home of his birth on Donora Street in Lansing. Visit is covered by the Lansing State Journal. The homes current owners describe the visit in the article and are photographed in front of the home. Rogues response: ???
10. 1930 Census shows Burt’s parents and sister living in Lansing, Michigan. Burt’s father is listed as “Burton M. Reynolds”. Rogue insists Milo wasn’t Burt’s father’s middle name and claims it was ‘Leon’. Rogue’s explanation: He has no explanation for the middle initial ‘M’ being listed on the Census record.
11. 1920 Census shows that Burt’s maternal grandfather’s name is Leon. This almost surely proves that Burt got his middle name from his maternal grandfather, not his father as Rogue contends. Rogue’s explanation: None (possibly coincidence?)
12. 1870 Census shows that Burt’s paternal grandmother’s (Effie Thompson) father was named Milo Thompson, almost surely showing this is where Burt’s father got the middle name “Milo”. Rogue’s response: Irrelevant because Burton Milo Reynolds wasn’t Burt’s father.
13. Rogue claims Burt’s father was Burton Leon Reynolds, Sr. Census records show there was no such person. Rogue admits that Burt’s family was from Michigan, but the only Burt/Burton Reynolds listed in Michigan was Burton Milo Reynolds. There was a Burton Lee Reynolds and a Burton L. Reynolds in Maine, but dates and locations show neither of these men could have been Burt’s father. Also, only Burton M. Reynolds was married to a ‘Fern’.: Rogue’s explanation. None, other than to question why Burt is a ‘Jr.’ if his father wasn’t a Burton Leon Reynolds.

OK, might somebody be able to reasonably question one or two items on the list? Maybe (although I’m not sure which ones), but 13???….with several of the items having no explanation from Rogue at all? Come on now… JSDA 07:49, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

LoL, I think it's funny you say you only asked them a neutral question, because the email I received back from them said it was provided by a person that had visited the site. I asked them a few questions of my own that they said they will get back to me about. They also told me although it is Burt's official site, he himself has had no direct interaction with them over the development or information on the site.Rogue Gremlin 22:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

- HA! Nice try Rogue. I'm glad you've decided to contact them and try to sway them though. Now I don't have to be neutral and I can show them what we have here already showing where Burt was born. If this page is any indication of 'a few questions of your own', I don't think we'll see Burt's site listing Waycross, Georgia as his birthplace any time soon. P.S. Still no answers for all of the above? Surprising....not so much.JSDA 22:51, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

- - Well Rogue...get this. You may have finally been right about something for once. I went back and checked my email to VPI. It turns out that when I described there being a lot of debate about where he was born, I linked this page as an example of that. I had forgot I did that. Kinda funny isn't it? If this page was indeed information that helped them confirm Burt's birthplace, I wonder how they came to the conclusion that he was born in Lansing? Gee...thats a toughie to figure out isn't it? Could it be because its pretty obvious where he was born? LOL. I didn't tell them which comments were mine, or which side I took in this debate. I simply linked this page to show there was a debate about where Burt was born. Apparently (if this page helped them confirm Burt's birthplace) they're smart enough to figure out the obvious for themselves. You really should give them more credit. JSDA 23:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

And first thing i do when i come to talk page is check the history, sorry but when i see you make 20 edits in the talk page in a day, i'm not going to read all your dribble. i don't come here to read all you ramblingsRogue Gremlin 03:08, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - Translation: I have no answer so I'll pretend I don't have time. How about I just pick a few of the 13 for you to address? How about #4, #6, #7, #9 and #10? I make no excuses for my multiple edits. I'm a typo machine. JSDA 04:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - - Kind of funny that Custer's (Rogue's) last stand has come down to "I've heard Burt say on several TV shows that he was born in Waycross, GA" when on July 7th Rogue posted (and then deleted), ... (removed unsourced negative comments about a living person per Wikipedia:Biography of living persons)... When you don't know if what being said is fact or fiction, you have to find some kind of documented evidence. Its time to let go of "Well I heard" and embrace the census images, county birth indexes, city directories, military records, an autobiography, information learned from family and friends, coverage of Burt's visit to his birth home, etc. You can try to discredit one or two sources, but at some point you have to realize the writing is on the wall, and challenging source after source with nothing better than "Thats not what I heard him say on TV" (when you've already called him "one of the biggest liars in Hollywood"), is a lost cause. I know, I know...why don't Lugnut and I contribute something to the page rather than just continue to argue this point. Well, for what its worth, I think you (and others) have done a great job with Burt's Wiki page. I don't know what else I can really add that hasn't already been added. All I know is that its pretty obvious where Burt was born, so for the sake of accuracy, I stand on that point. Well, that and the fact that its difficult to sit on your hands when you're being told you're wrong when you know you're not and you're showing evidence proving it. We can drop this whenever, but as long as you continue to insist he was born in Waycross and push that agenda on the article page, I'll be here to refute it. I don't even care if the article page continues to show "birthplace disputed" as long as it points to this page for more information on the dispute, and doesn't try a 'backdoor' approach to pushing the Waycross agenda (which seems to be happening now). I can't speak for others, but I'd even be content with the article page not mentioning Waycross or Lansing at all except to point to this page for info on the birthplace dispute between the two. That seems like the best approach in my opinion because otherwise the article page will just continue to be a 'scorched earth' battleground on a daily basis with the only casualty being the article page itself. JSDA 05:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Burt's Epiphany

Reynolds, on the Dinah Shore Show in the late 1970's, told a very poignant story about the one person who changed his pants the most- Watson B. Duncan III- a professor at Palm Beach Jr. College. Reynolds attended FSU right after high school but was kicked out. He then came back to Palm Beach County, and enrolled in Palm Beach Jr. College. Reynolds stated that Duncan befriended him and changed his life. He then went back to FSU on a football scholarship. I had edited the article to tell this story but unfortunately someone edited it out. I would like to ask that person why.

Find a source and I'll put it back up. There is no "Palm Beach Junior College", though there is a "Palm Beach Community College". I, for one, have never heard of him getting kicked out of FSU. Also, sign your discussions with ~~~~, so we know who is saying what. Thanks. AriGold 20:17, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I added another comment addressing your concerns below in a new posting. I'm new at this and still learning the Wiki ways. Hokeman

Birth Place

Your articles are wrong, Burt himself says he is from Waycross, if you watch the old Dinah Shore show, he stated it clearly on there, on Carol Burnett, he stated he was born in a small town in georgia ((not to mention his birth certificate is on file in waycross, georgia.)) While it is true his parents were living in Lansing prior to his birth, they were on there way to Florida when his mother went into labor and the stopped in Waycross at the local hospital for his birth. Although he only lived in Waycross a short period of time, he was born there. Forget, newspaper articles or biographies written by other people. If you watch any of his old interviews like i stated Dinah Shore, Carol Burnett, Mike Douglas, Johnny Carson and so on he clearly staes he was born in Waycross, but did not live there. Even in the movie (Stroker Ace) he had them add to the script a line where they are announcing him as "the man from Waycross, Georgia...Stoker Ace" not to mention his connection over the years to Ossie Davis which he felt a special bond to as fellow person born on the edge of Waycross(Cogdell) and alot of his earlier film being made around Waycross, or having to do with the Okefenokee Swamp, such as the theme song to "Gator" He has never made any comments about being from michigan.Rogue_GremlinFeb 2007

Obviously, you have not consulted his autobiography. His family lived in MIchigan until he was several years old, so the story about him being born in Waycross while his family was on the way to Florida does not make any sense. -- Donald Albury 23:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Mr. Albury please provide the link to the page in his autobiography stating he WAS BORN in Lansing. If this cannot be done for any reason then there is NO valid proof over the links i provided, TY again, Oh and look down I added a few more links, and also would like to mention the word "birthplace" which is associated with where a person is born NOT a place where a childhood is spent. Not to mention a CONSENSOUS of 100% of the websites that are non-editable by users ( or that users cannot submit changes to be added)say his birthplace is Waycross.[User:Rogue_Gremlin | Rogue_Gremlin] Feb 11 2007

The part that doesn't make sense is that he lived in michigan as a child, because of all the information ever recorded, he did not, "I can tell you I lived in michigan as a child in my autobigraphy that doesn't mean I did or even if I did, that doesn't I was born there". Plus this is an exact quote from Burt about his autobiography "My autobiography is a good book, considering it was written in three days." One thing though, Birth Certificates don't lie. Speak to the man himself as I have. Tons of autobiographies are ghostwritten in which wrong information is included, my suggestion to you is, speak to him as I have or if you can't do that, get the old tapes of the shows I mentioned sit back and watch the man himself say with his own mouth were he was born, or better yet call lansing and inquire about his birth certificate, then call the ware county health department, do some REAL research most of my research on Burt came by traveling to such places long before the WWW was around. Rogue_Gremlin Feb 11 2007

Try contacting the Ware County Health Deptartment and inquiring about his birth certificate. Then try Lansing's, I can tell you for a fact it is on record in Waycross. Not to mention when I met him at a taping of "Evening Shade" and asked him personally if he was from Waycross, he clarified my question by saying "I am from Jupiter, but I was born in Waycross." And by the way I would just like to let you know I am not from Waycross, but from Florida and a very avid Burt Reynolds fan so I am a neutral party to his birth but upon visitng his birthplace and paying a visit to where birth records are held there, Waycross Health Department and inquiring they indeed stated his birth records are indeed on file there, I tried to buy a copy but was told it was not possible since I was not a direct family member. To verify their process, I called them later in the week inquiring about getting a friends birth certificate so I could make a plaque for her on her birthday, I was given the same response. Oh and the only proof I have seen from you was a link to your own site or to a site that can be edited by users. try the links i provided most notably the georgia encyclopedia and take a good look at where they get their information from ""A project of the Georgia Humanities Council, in partnership with the University of Georgia Press, the University System of Georgia/GALILEO, the Office of the Governor, and the Georgia Department of Technical and Adult Education.""Rogue_GremlinFeb 8, 2007

Links to various websites that list Burt's birthplace as Lansing, Michigan:

JSDA 09:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Here we go again, more vandalism. No proof again. And from an UNREGISTERED user. Oh boy!!! Lugnut215 23:05, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I have several articles from the Lansing State Journal newspaper, that mention he was born here in Lansing, Michigan. Including one, when he visited Lansing in Sept. 1987. Not in Waycross, Georgia as listed before. Lugnut215, 14 January 2006

His autobiography, the NY Times and many other sources claim Waycross as his birth city. AriGold 19:35, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

In his autobiography "My Life" (1994) on pages 5 thru 15, it pretty clearly states he was born in Lansing, Michigan. Which is my home town. I have links to information that i've found. Some are copyrighted, so I can't post them here. AriGold, please site the date and page numbers on the NY Times article you mentioned. Lugnut215, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Times article stating, "Burt Reynolds originally hailed from Waycross, GA, where he was born on February 11". AriGold 13:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
With all due respect, this is not an article, but a biography with no sources. My guess is that Mr. Reynolds, early in his career wanted the image of a southerner, so he may have said he was born in Georgia. But his roots are in the north in Michigan. He wrote his autobiography after his mother Fern passed away in 1992, and probably got in touch with his roots again after this. Here's a link to a web page of mine of Lansing city directories that I compiled. [1] Lugnut215, 10 May 2006
- (((HIS birth certificate is on file at Ware County health Department))) Rogue_GremlinFeb 8, 2007
  - The Ingham County Birth Index (covering Lansing, Michigan) shows Burton Leon Reynolds born there in 1936: http://www.geocities.com/lugnut215/reynolds-family/burt-jr-birth-index-p1.jpg

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/printing/titledetailsprint.asp?titleno=206836&first=1&last=100
Please provide similar evidence that he was born in Waycross, GA. JSDA 16:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

- - Please provide proof of this! Lugnut215 20:53, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't know why his birth place keeps getting changed back to Waycross, Georgia from Lansing, Michigan. Does anyone have any real proof that Burt was born in Georgia, other than I saw on other web pages? I put listings of Lansing City Direcrories that people can verify. And below is a link to an index of mine of newspaper clippings and other stuff for more proof.[2] Lugnut215, 15 May 2006

- I recently read on Burt Reynolds.com that he now is admitting that he was born in Lansing, Michigan. I think we Wikipedians, in our search for the truth, should put a paragraph in the article that says something to this effect:

For years, Reynolds maintained in interviews and on talk shows that he was born in Waycross, Georgia. This was done to add credibility to the so-called Southern Mystique that Reynolds has long tried to cultivate. Recently, however, he has come clean and admitted on his official website that his real birth place was Lansing, Michigan.

What are your thoughts on this concept Rogue_Gremlin, Lugnut215, AriGold and Donald Albury?--Hokeman 18:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually Hokeman, That is not HIS site, After emails back and forth I found out. The site is owned by the company that produced his movie Cloud 9 (Clematis Productions). They own the site and Burt has contributed no info to them. Also for the first month or so his site had NO birthplace info. And it wasn't added til the exact same day a person from here admitted emailing them telling them his birthplace was Lansing until they added it. Also in my emails back and forth with the company that made the site (VPI). They stated they have had NO contact with Burt of any kind to get info for this site, and that they added the part about Lansing after getting an email about it. I had never emailed them I was waiting from a point of neutrality to see what they put. But after the person on here admitted doing it, the exact day the info on his site changed. I started my emails with them. Which is why they have now added at the bottom of the site who it is owned by. So yes it is his official site(he gets a percentage of money from anything they make from the site), but it is not HIS site. (the site is kinda like the George foreman grill, George Foreman did not invent that grill, he lets them use his name to sell the grill, in return he makes money of off it) Since I have never seen him say anything in interviews other than waycross, i will stick to that until i see him say other wise.Rogue Gremlin 19:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

- I see we have some revisionist history going on here. I did NOT tell Burt's official website that he was born in Lansing. I emailed them and told them there was a discrepancy about where Burt was born, and I linked to this site so they could see the discussion on the subject. I asked if they could clear the issue up since the site went live without having any birthplace info like we'd hoped. If they arrived at the 'Lansing' answer from this site, it was nothing more than the obvious conclusion one would reach looking at the mountain of evidence. Sorry to blow another conspiracy theory for you Rogue, but I didn't tell them he was born in Lansing. Please stop spreading lies saying I 'admitted telling them his birthplace was Lansing'. Thats garbage. I never even hinted that I thought he was born in Lansing in my email to them. I simply noted there was a dispute about his birthplace and linked this discussion page to show that dispute (and my email address is nothing like my user ID here, so they didn't even know I had posted on this page). I still have my email correspondence with them showing this. Also, if having them list his birthplace as where ever you want was as simple as emailing them and telling them to list it that way, why does his official site STILL show that he was born in Lansing? The best you were able to accomplish is getting them to list who the site is owned by? I'm sure you must have tried to get them to change it to Waycross (rather than just letting that facts speak for themselves)...that would be much better than a 'who owns them' statement, no? They didn't change it. Gee, I wonder why? JSDA 04:27, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

That's interesting, Rogue Gremlin, I didn't know that. The site states that it is Burt's official site, so I assumed that he authorized that himself.--Hokeman 16:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

He is not the only celebrity that does this. In fact some official sites start out as huge fan sites, that end up becoming the celebrities official site. hat's how Ellen Muth's (George) on Dead Like Me official site came to be. It was a huge fan site, than Ellen ended up giving the designation of her official site. She even goes to its board sometimes and chats with her fans.Rogue Gremlin 17:53, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Former Marine

List of famous U.S. Marines lists Burt Reynolds as a former Marine. Is that true? David.Monniaux 10:45, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Nationality

The article on the adjective is at American, the article about the country is at United States. See User talk:206.201.180.226

His mother - Italian?

The IMDB seems to think so. But does anyone have a credible source? The IMDB has been viciously incorrect lately. Vulturell 22:47, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup, I checked a book bio and the IMDB blew it again. His mother was described as coming from a WASP family, and his father wasn't Italian either. Vulturell 06:25, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

A matter of research

Watching the History Channel the other day, it stated that it was " a misconception that Burt is of Native American decendancy, reinforced by the film Indian Joe" . This is in contrast to Wikipedia.

What are the facts?

Well, I consulted a decaying, 80's book bio from my public library to find out about his supposed Italian mother. The book bio, which seemed pretty reliable and well researched, said his mother was of Anglo-Saxon stock and his father was Cherokee on his mother's (i.e. Reynolds' paternal grandmother) side. The Cherokee thing is mentioned in tons of sites all over the net, I'd imagine it is true. (Just search for something like "Burt Reynolds"+Cherokee on Google) Vulturell 23:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

- Both the Cherokee and Italian ancestry info is interesting because in tracking Burt's roots through Census records, I haven't found anything that would confirm either. Maybe it was one of those "going way back we heard we have Cherokee blood" stories or something similar. The note that Burt's paternal grandmother is where the Cherokee ancestry comes from is interesting because Census records show that she was Effie M. Thompson, the daughter of Milo and Ann Thompson (listed as a 'white' family). Milo was from New York and Ann was from Michigan. Not exactly Cherokee 'hot beds'. Cherokee.org states, "...the Cherokee lived in a very large area which included all or portions of the present day states of Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Kentucky, Alabama, Virginia and West Virginia." Obviously, none of these locations is anywhere near New York or Michigan. As for the Italian ancestry on his mother's side, his maternal grandparents were Leon & Nina Miller. Both born in Michigan, and their parents were both born in Michigan as well. Miller clearly isn't an Italian name, and both of his maternal grandparents were born in the 1870's (well before the large waves of Italian emigration to the U.S). His maternal great-grandparents both being born in Michigan as well appears to show that his maternal ancestry has been in Michigan since at least the 1850s. This doesn't rule out that Burt could have had Cherokee or Italian ancestry, but it seems unlikely when you trace his family history. JSDA 19:28, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Just an addition to the info above, here is a link to a 1906 plat map for Missaukee County, MI (West Branch Twp). This shows Star City (referred to in Burt's autobiography). Note in section 13, the property of Leon Miller (Burt's maternal grandfather), (1906 Missaukee County, MI plat map). As an interesting (or maybe not) side note, in tracing Burt's maternal ancestry, I discovered that he and I are distant cousins (both descending from William Carpenter & Abigail Briant, of colonial times) JSDA 01:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

And all of that is original research, and cannot be used in the article. -- Donald Albury 21:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was just adding it as a footnote to the discussion about his Cherokee ancestry. Doesn't prove anything either way, and I had no intention of adding it to the article page or of trying to draw another subject into dispute. I'm exhausted as is with the subject of his birthplace. Ha! JSDA 23:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

More from the author of Burts epiphany

Palm Beach Jr. College changed its name in the 1980's to Palm Beach Community College. I think almost all of the public Junior Colleges in Florida did so at this time.

The best source is his autobiography. He talks at length about Watson B. Duncan III turning his life around and getting kicked out of FSU (the first time).

Burt describes this as the seminal moment in his life. It would be a shame to leave it out.

Also, Burt was known back then as "Buddy" Reynolds. That's significant and I didn't see it mentioned in the article. Burt has called Sally Field the "love of my life". I didn't see that mentioned either. Also Palm Beach High School was in West Palm Beach Florida (not Palm Beach) at the time Burt was a student there. Also Burt was married to Judy for 18 months not three years as the article suggests. Hokeman

If you want to use his autobio as a source, go for it. Just make sure you note it. (Funny you should mention his college nickname, I actually know people that still call him "Buddy".) And the Sally Field thing could be thrown in there if you want to. I don't get involved with the tabloid type stuff in articles. I prefer to work more on the artist's body of work or more general history. AriGold 13:52, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

PS Again, all you have to do is sign your discussions with ~~~~, you don't have to actually type it out. Just trying to help. AriGold 13:55, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

BTW, Palm Beach High School later became Palm Beach County School of the Arts, now Alexander W. Dreyfoos School of the Arts. ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 01:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Lee Corso

I've changed the reference to Burt's college roommate, Lee Corso, from "ESPN football analyst and former football coach" to "future ESPN football analyst and football coach". The original version made it sound as if Corso had already been a coach and analyst at the time they were roommates. --grummerx 01:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Protecting this article

We should consider asking that this article be protected from vandalism. Someone, an obsessive-compulsive in all probability, keeps changing his birtplace from Waycross, Georgia to Lansing, Michigan.--Hokeman 02:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I've come to this discussion only in the last week, but if it gets protected, it should be done so stating what the obsessive-compulsive said because Burt was born in Lansing, Michigan. There is a mountain of supporting evidence below. JSDA 22:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Ther is NOT any evidence of him stating it. Even his autobiography DOES NOT say he was born in Lansing, Michigan. It should be left as discussed with the admins. Rogue Gremlin 14:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

There IS an article citing a telephone interview with Burt Reynold's in the Sept. 25th, 1987 issue of the Lansing State Journal stating "I was born in Lansing, but then we moved to Georgia and Florida". Also, his autobiography apparently states on Page 10 that he was born in his parents' house on Donora Street. There is no Donora Street in Waycross, Georgia. The closest thing to it is a 'Danora Drive'. There is a substantial difference between DONora STREET, and "DANora DRIVE". Also, maybe there is some Wikipedia rule I'm unaware of, but you seem to imply that a person needs to have said themself that they were born in a specific location for anything to count as 'evidence'. In other words, damn whatever documentation might be out there. If they haven't said anything about it (which is still up for debate by the way) then its not valid evidence. Please cite a source for this rule. JSDA 21:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Location of Palm Beach Junior College

While PBJC was in Lake Park when Reynolds dropped out of FSU, it may have moved to Lake Worth before Reynolds returned to FSU. PBJC opened on the Lake Worth campus in 1956, the same year that Reynolds returned to FSU, but I don't see dates for the two events within the year. I have seen pictures of Reynolds around that time rehearsing for a production at the Lake Worth Playhouse (a community theater). -- Donald Albury 09:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Death ?

Where are the sources ?

There are no sources, it's just plain vandalism. Lugnut215 20:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Also found a Hollwood Walk of Fame card endorsed by them, made by starline, Burt's card is No. 19 on back Birthplace Waycross, Georgia cards were made in 1991 Rogue_Gremlin Feb 2007

Media Attack

I remember seeing a video of Reynolds assaulting a reporter at the debut of the remake of The longest yard, does that belong here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.61.175.83 (talk) 13:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

If you can find a published report from a reliable source, you can cite that. Of course, you may have to convince other editors that it is notable enough to be included, and you have to be careful not to violate our policy on biogaphies of living persons. -- Donald Albury 02:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[[3]] There is one source of info... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.61.175.83 (talk) 03:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

Citing Reynold's autobiography

I have moved this conversation from my talk page to here. -- Donald Albury 04:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Reynolds stated in his autobiography that he was born in his parents' home on Donora Street. Which is the street he was born on in Waycross,Georgia. Coincidentaly there is a Donora Street in Lansing,Michigan too. He never says in his autobiography that he is BORN in Michgan, And in every interview he has ever given he clearly states in it when asked of his birthplace, that it is Waycross, Georgia. And can you provide me with links to backup what you added to his biography,PROVE your burt edit, citations needed for what you added NOT links that carry you to places where you can buy the book, but actual links to the pages (NOT to mention i have an interview where Burt says it was the best book that was be written in 3 days)and the fact that most of it was ghost written) So please provided ACTUAL citations. Rogue Gremlin 03:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Have you read Reynold's autobiography? He makes it very clear in there that his family lived in Michigan until they moved to Florida when he was about ten years old. He does not mention Waycross at all in the chapters about his youth. If Reynold's has been contradictory about where he was born, then that should be addressed in the article. -- Donald Albury 03:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

You also say his dad was drafted in 1941, his dad was 35 years old in 1941. And I suggest you use google maps or yahoo maps Donora Street is a cross street of Seminole Trail. Please provide actual links or i will be removing the vandalism. Thanks Rogue Gremlin 03:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I have cited his autobiography. That is a source published by Hyperion (publisher), which makes it a reliable source. Read Wikipedia:Vandalism#What vandalism is not before you call something "vandalism". -- Donald Albury 04:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Google Maps gives me "We could not understand the location Donora Street, Waycross, Georgia". Google Maps does list Donora Streets in Lansing, Michigan and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Searching for the intersection of Donora Street and Seminole Trail in Waycross, Georgia, Yahoo! Maps turns up the intersection of Danora Drive with Seminole Trail. Sorry, 'Danora Drive' is not the same as 'Donora Street'. -- Donald Albury 04:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

BTW, men up to 45 years old were subject to the draft in the U.S. during WWII (see Selective Service Act). -- Donald Albury 04:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

You provided links to places where the book can be bought NOT links to the ACTUAL pages in the book, therefore it is not proof. So unless you can provide them I will be removing the stuff you added that is in dispute, Thanks Rogue Gremlin 04:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I have cited page numbers. You are sadly mistaken if you think only on-line sources are allowed. -- Donald Albury 04:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

here is something you yourself wrote.....But you can't add that to Wikipedia unless you can cite a reliable published source. Please see the policy at Wikipedia:Attribution. -- Donald Albury 16:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC) SO I WILL BE REMOVING your edits until you have it where they can be verified, Thanks Rogue Gremlin 04:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention WIKI clearly states "unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately," Rogue Gremlin 04:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

ALSO If you have admin rights they should be seriously called into question for abuse of power, for your manipulation of Burts page, By removing my validated stuff, and adding your "unsouced or poorly sourced stuff" in its place.Rogue Gremlin 04:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I am an admin, and I have not used any of my admin powers in this dispute. If you still think that I have abused my admin powers, you may file a complaint at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard, but do note that the intro to that page says:

If you want to make an open informal complaint over the behaviour of an admin, you can do so here. But this is not the Wikipedia complaints department. If your problem is a content issue and does not need the attention of people with administrator access, then please follow the steps in dispute resolution. These include: mediation, requests for comment, and as a last resort requests for arbitration.

I have not removed your "validated stuff", but you have now removed material I added that was properly cited from a reliable source. -- Donald Albury 12:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Request to Rogue Gremlin

Will you agree to seeking help in resolving this dispute through seeking a third opinion or informal mediation? Both parties have to agree before these options can be pursued. -- Donald Albury 12:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

As long as the comments on his birthplace being Lansing are removed and the page placed back in the neutral state i was basically placing it in. Along with fact that third person be truly neutral, and not any of your admin friends. I do not know anyone here. So i have no one show favoritism taking my side on the issue.Rogue Gremlin 20:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm! The dispute is about which is the neutral state for the page. If you are not willing to accept any outcome of dispute resolution that would result in the article being in any state other than your preferred version, there is no point in proceeding with this. Do you agree to seek a third opinion? Or would you prefer to seek informal mediation? As for my "admin friends", Wikipedia is a big place, and I am not acquianted with most of the admins here, let alone the non-admin editors who do the bulk of the work for third opinions and informal mediation. Moreover, any admins or other editors who have had any significant interaction with me would have to recuse themselves from mediating. -- Donald Albury 22:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

What I said was the page needs to be at a neutral state until the final outcome.Rogue Gremlin 22:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

There's been some conversation at User talk:Rogue Gremlin and my talkpage, some of which relates to the content of this article. Jkelly 22:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:BLP

Responding to an entry at the BLP noticeboard, I removed a great deal of unsourced material about the subject's personal life and finances. The referencing of the article was broken when I arrived here, so I reverted back to an earlier, properly referenced version while doing it. I have no opinion whatsoever on his place of birth, which seems to be the locus of the dispute above. Jkelly 17:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

school stuff

I updated some of the info about Burts junior and senior highschools. Let me know if you need any clarifications (I went to that school and met Burt there several times, he's a well respected figure around there.) ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 01:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Reynolds places Central Jr. High at the "far west end" of the Palm Beach High campus. I'm having trouble picturing that, as that would put it up against Tamarind, and I don't remember old buildings along that side of the campus. It was Twin Lakes High when I moved to West Palm, and the football stadium was along Tamarind. -- Donald Albury 04:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Definitely were not old buildings near Tamarind. They stopped about halfway up what is now the Kravis garage, and essentially that was where yeah, the football area was. I'm still not 100% sure how the county decided to have two co-campus places with different schools, but whatever, point is the Central Jr./Palm Beach high/Twin Lakes/DSOA campus is essentially all the same thing. ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 21:05, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how common it was, but I understand there was a Jr. High on the same campus with Atlantic High in Delray at one time. The high school eventually took over those buildings. -- Donald Albury 11:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Informal mediation

I do not see where one has been started yet.Rogue Gremlin 13:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Since you kept saying that you would not agree to informal mediation unless the article was changed back to your version first, I saw no reason to go ahead with the request for mediation. I am considering whether to go straight to an RfC. -- Donald Albury 20:21, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I did not say placed back to my verison, I said placed in a neutral state, which it is kind of in now.Rogue Gremlin 01:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

- Rogue, can we get a more neutral note on the main page than the one that is currently shown next to the 'disputed' section on Burt's place of birth? At best its out of date, but I'm pretty sure most would agree this is written from the perspective of somebody convinced that Burt's birthplace is Waycross, GA, and doesn't fairly cover the dispute. Currently it states:

"While most sources give Burt Reynolds' birthplace as Waycross, Georgia (Birthplace. The Biography Channel.). Reynolds himself said on Dinah Shore, Carol Burnett, Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas and Johnny Carson he was born in Waycross, Georgia. It alludes in Reynolds autobiography that he was born in Lansing, Michigan Reynolds. P. 10. Burt's website is now up and running, but it doesn't mention either Michigan or Georgia, it only mentions his hometown in Jupiter, Florida."

You (assuming you wrote that) do a pretty good job of arguing for Waycross there, with the only case made for Lansing being that his autobiography alludes to him being born in Lansing. I'd suggest something like simply stating that various sources list both Waycross and Lansing as his birthplace, and then refer to the discussion on this subject here so they can see the sources for themselves. I was just going to update the info about his Official site stating that he was born in Lansing, but I didn't see how I could do it (maybe you need to be a board admin or something to change that section, I don't know). If you don't want to change it, we can do the informal mediation thing, or the RfC I saw mentioned, I just need to read up on how to do it first. I just thought even though we obviously don't agree on his birthplace, we can still possibly agree on a 'neutral' description connected with the 'disputed birthplace' note. JSDA 08:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Added Material

I added back some of my referenced material (with just one of the many links) that deserves to stay along with the other stuff til dispute is taken thru mediationRogue Gremlin 13:58, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comment

There is disagreement on the proper way to indicate that sources differ on where Burt Reynolds was born. Burt Reynolds has stated in several venues that he was born in Waycross, Georgia. In his autobiogaphy, My Life, Burt Reynolds does not mention Waycross, but strongly indicates that he was born in Lansing, Michigan. there are reliable published sources for both birthplaces. 20:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Everytime I have ever seen an interview he says Waycross, he even talks about that being a huge bond for him and Ossie Davis. Also the stuff you added about his dad being drafted in 1941 is total bull, if you can get access to the military records database you will see as i can that yes a Burton Reynolds did enter the Army then, BUT it was Burton M. Reynolds NOT, Burton Leon Reynolds. plus in a interview after his book was released he talked about his book being made, and that he all he did was over the course of 3 days he told all his stories into a tape recorder, and turned them in for a big paycheck, Because at that time he needed the money. The book was ghost written.68.16.11.98 17:57, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

- Note that Burton M. (Milo) Reynolds' Army record from Lansing, Michigan (referred to in the paragraph above) shows that he was a Master Sergeant that served in a Field Artillery Unit. This matches exactly with the Lansing State Journal article that cites a discussion with Paul Corey, an Army buddy of Burt's father, whom he served with the 119th Field Artillery. (http://www.geocities.com/lugnut215/reynolds-family/state_journal_lansing_mi_08-06-84.tif) Clearly this is the same person, and this record is about as far from "total bull" as humanly (or bovinely) possible. JSDA 04:12, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I have never seen anything from a reliable source indicating he was BORN in Lansing (it does NOT say he was BORN in Lansing in his autobiography), in fact until I started coming here I had never even heard that, and shortly after was when someone submited to IMdb(IMdb lets users submit changes) to have there's changed. I have been a devout follower of Burt's career for well over 30 years. One person on here included a link once saying it was in a newspaper interview with Burt saying he was from Lansing. But if you paid to join that newspapers website, It was NOT an interview with Burt, It was an interview with someone about Burt. I have almost all of Burt's interviews on VHS, He always states he was born in Waycross. In the movie "Stroker Ace" he had a line changed, to say; "The Man from Waycross, Georgia, STOKER ACE". If you call the Waycross Chamber of Commerce the will tell he was born in Waycross and is on record as such. If you call the Lansing Regional Chamber of Commerce the will tell you they heard it as a rumor but they have nothing on record. That alone should dispell the myth. not to mention, All the major encyclopedia's credit Waycross as his birthplace. I will be back to add more Rogue Gremlin 00:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a source of heated debate amongst editors on Burt's page. There are a couple of seemingly reliable sources in cyberspace that list Lansing, Michigan as his birthplace, but overwhelmingly by more than a 10:1 margin Waycross, Georgia is listed as his birthplace in references. In the late 1970s, I remember seeing Burt on the Dinah Shore show talking about growing up in Palm Beach County. I distinctly remember him saying that he was born in Waycross, Georgia; and that his dad had been the police chief in Riviera Beach, Florida and prior to that was a high ranking officer in the Waycross Department. I don't remember him ever mentioning anything about living in Michigan as a youth - only Georgia and Florida. That's my two cents on the subject.--Hokeman 04:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I am not hiding anywhere. As I've seen lately there are more and more people who are seeing the bullyiness (for a lack of a better word). I guess in a certain person's mind I'm to blame for any edit that contradicts theirs. /// As I've tried to mention before, it's a matter of Image vs. The Truth of where Burt was born. He tells in interviews that he is from the south, which is fine. And has said he likes to reinvent himself. But there is much genealogical evidence in Lansing, Michigan, that supports that he was born there. How can someone just dismiss the scans of the Lansing newspapers as false? And that his autobiography as false too, he put his name on it, so he approved of the book, no matter if you believe he wrote it or not? Don't you think he would have or had someone else mention "Georgia" at least once in this book that has his name on it? And why in 1936, in the middle of the Great Depression, would his family move to Florida. This makes no sense. I support any third party mediation. Good Luck, Mr. Albury! Lugnut215 20:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Links to pages in encyclopedias, magazines, newspapers, TV companies, and websites that list Burt's birthplace as Waycross (Most notable first)some you have join but you can use their free trial period. Most uneditable by users or users cannot submit changes to be made.: Encyclopedia Britannica / Encarta MSN / TIME Magazine (article from Monday, Aug.21, 1972) / CNN / Chicago Sun-Times (article from Feb 7, 2007) / New York Times / State Handbook & Guide Resources / Turner Classic Movies / AMC tv / A&E tv / The Biography Channel / E! / Hollywood.com / Allmovie.com / Yahoo Movies / MSN Movies / AOL Movies / TV.com / Yahoo TV / FYE / Filmbug / Georgia Monthly / Answer.com / Fandango / Netflix / USFL Owners / eBay / Channel 4 (UK television) / Sky Movies / Tribute Entertainment Group / eNewsReference / Yahoo Shopping / Starpulse / Matchflick / website from Norway / Celebrity Wonder / Trivia Tribute / LAMP Travel Series / Infoplease.com / Palm Beach InterContinental Hotels Group Rogue Gremlin 22:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Links to various websites that list Burt's birthplace as Lansing, Michigan:

Burt Reynolds' Official Website / New Georgia Encyclopedia / Yuddy.com / TopSynergy.com / The Ledger / NNBD / Platinum Celebs / The Films / Lifetime / Astrotheme / Vegas Attractions / Teleboy / Actors of Hollywood / Castlerock Cinema Zone / Filmweb / slcoolj.de / monsite.wanadoo.fr / interstar-astroservice.com / Libase / Scifi Universe / Movie Meter / WGOW / JSDA 09:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The link to that Lansing Newspaper was NOT and interview WITH Burt. It was an interview with someone else talking about Burt. Not to mention it was NOT an article conducted by the Lansing newspaper, it was an interview in a Palm Peach newspaper used on the Lansing Newspapers website. Furthermore neither of those are genealogical evidence. And like most people out there, I'm willing to bet you Burt did not have final editorial approval on his book.(Which by the way NEVER says he was BORN in Lansing. The book does not say where he was born. Also Burt never tried to re-invent himself by saying he was from Waycross, he has in every interview on TV said Waycross his only refernce to Michigan is that is where his parents where from, and when you see the man say he repeatedly he was born in Waycross, where as I know you did not she him write it. You may have read his book, but did you watch him write it? I think not, therefore I will beleive what I saw him say. Rogue Gremlin 22:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Also Lugnut I went to your website which is all wrong, all your references are to Burton Milo Reynolds which was not Burt's dad, Burt's dad was Burton Leon Reynolds and just incase you try to say there couldn't be 2. In just one random birth search on 1 site I found BURTON A REYNOLDS, BURTON C REYNOLDS, BURTON H REYNOLDS, BURTON H REYNOLDS, BURTON H REYNOLDS, BURTON K REYNOLDS, BURTON K REYNOLDS, BURTON L REYNOLDS, BURTON M REYNOLDS, & BURTON REYNOLDS 6 of them over 70 Rogue Gremlin 04:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Is there a source proving that Burton Milo Reynolds was not Burt's father? Because the 1930 Census shows the exact opposite to be true. Burton "M." Reynolds is listed with his wife, Fern H. Reynolds, and their daughter "Nancy A." Also, as I've indicated below, Burt's maternal grandfather was Leon Miller (this is surely where Burt got his middle name), and Burt Sr's maternal grandfather was Milo Thompson (where Burt Sr. surely got his middle name). - JSDA, May 24, 2007

Please note that Reynolds does not mention Waycross at all in his autobiography. He talks about his parents meeting and marrying in Lansing, about being born in his parent's house on Donora Street, about his father's parents living on the street behind them, and about returning to Lansing from Fort Leonard Wood after his father was shipped off to Europe. Burt Jr., his mother and his sister spent most of the time Burt Sr. was in Europe at his mother's grandparents' farm, but they met Burt Sr. in Lansing when he returned from the Army. The move to Florida came early the next year, and Burt Jr. describes the car ride down without making any mention of Georgia. He does say that they crossed the Smokies and took U.S. 1 down to Florida, so they presumably traveled through Waycross, but he doesn't mention anything about it. -- Donald Albury 23:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Has no one else noticed and commented on this discrepancy? Jkelly 00:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Outside of this talk page? I haven't seen anything. It would be nice to have some third-party commentary on it. -- Donald Albury 00:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

There is also a discrepancy as to when Burt Sr. became a police officer. Reynold's autobiography states that his father first became a police officer two or three years after they moved to Riviera Beach, Florida, and that he became the police chief when the previous chief, who had recruited Burt Sr., died. Reynolds says that his father was stoking boilers when he met Burt Jr.'s mother. He apprenticed as a toolmaker, but lost a finger in a lathe. Reynolds also says his father "dug ditches, unloaded steel, worked in the automobile factories". His first job in Florida was building houses. Burt's parents were running a lunch stand when Burt Sr. joined the Riviera Beach police department.

We have here two quite different, often contradictory, versions of Reynold's early life. As both versions come from Reynolds himself, and can be attributed to reliable sources, we are not in a position to pick one over the other. We need to cover both versions in the article. We need to do so in a neutral manner, and we need to be sure that every single statement is attributable to reliable sources.

I intend to add more material to the article from Reynold's autobiography. As this material covers his life after he started Jr. High School, there should be little controversy about it. -- Donald Albury 00:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

- - - As I become more familiar with the procedures for dispute resolution, I now notice there already is an existing "Request for Comment" section on this page. That being the case, I'm going to repost what I'd posted above here as it seems that might be the only way other admins see my additions - Evidence provided by Lugnut & myself supporting that Burt Reynolds was born in Lansing, Michigan and RogueGremlin’s responses to these:

1. Autobiography implies Burt was born in Lansing, not in the south. Rogue’s explanation: Autobiography was ghost written and is wrong.
2. Burt’s Official website states he was born in Lansing, Michigan. Rogue’s explanation: Website is wrong, just repeats wrong info from elsewhere.
3. VPI (company hired to design & create Burt’s Official website) states they have ‘confirmed’ Burt was born in Lansing. Rogue’s explanation: ???
4. City directories from Lansing, Michigan show Burt’s parents lived in Lansing from 1923 through 1941 (Burt was born in 1936). Not only that, but in 1936 they were living on Donora St. (where Rogue has acknowledged that Burt Reynolds lived when he was born). Rogues explanation: None, other than it is a coincidence that there is a Donora St. in Lansing, Michigan where a Burton M. Reynolds and Fern H. Reynolds just happened to live. (note: Burt’s autobiography states that he lived on ‘Donora Street’. Not Danora Drive (which is the only name close to this near Waycross, GA)
5. Burton Leon Reynolds’ birth is noted in the Ingham County Birth Index in 1936. This is the county where Lansing is located (images of the index are provided). Rogue’s response: These documents are posted on a page hosted by Lugnut, therefore they easily could be created or modified. They also would not hold up in court since it’s a photocopy. (Note: Lugnut provides a link to the FHL catalog where anyone can request a copy of the films to verify their authenticity). He also questions the FHL’s legitimacy as a reliable source of information. (he really tried to cover all of his bases on this one...and who can blame him? We're looking at the next best thing to seeing Burt's birth certificate, which we couldn't see because he is a living individual)
6. In 1974, Wanda Bookman (a cousin of Burt’s) brings a photocopy of Burt’s birth certificate to the Lansing State Journal showing that Burt was born on Feb. 11, 1936 in Lansing, MI. The birth certificate shows that Burt’s father was Burton Milo Reynolds and his mother was Fern H. Miller. Mrs. Bookman had to show that she was related to Burt to get a copy of the birth certificate. Rogues response: Rogue doesn’t believe anything from the Lansing State Journal since it states that Burton ‘Milo’ Reynolds was Burt’s father, which he contends is incorrect (Note: See Census record info in #13 below)
7. Paul Corey, an old friend of Burt’s father who served in the same unit with him in the war, visits Burt’s father and Burt’s father confirms that he was born on Donora Street in Lansing and also says that he has no idea why so many biographies state that his son was born in Georgia when it simply isn’t true. Rogue’s response: ???
8. 1987 - Lansing State Journal cites a telephone interview with Burt Reynolds where he states, “I was born in Lansing on Donora Street, but then we moved to Georgia and Florida.” Rogue’s response: Claims this was not a phone interview with Burt Reynolds, but rather a quote from an interview about Burt.
9. 1987 – Burt Reynolds visits the home of his birth on Donora Street in Lansing. Visit is covered by the Lansing State Journal. The homes current owners describe the visit in the article and are photographed in front of the home. Rogues response: ???
10. 1930 Census shows Burt’s parents and sister living in Lansing, Michigan. Burt’s father is listed as “Burton M. Reynolds”. Rogue insists Milo wasn’t Burt’s father’s middle name and claims it was ‘Leon’. Rogue’s explanation: He has no explanation for the middle initial ‘M’ being listed on the Census record.
11. 1920 Census shows that Burt’s maternal grandfather’s name is Leon. This almost surely proves that Burt got his middle name from his maternal grandfather, not his father as Rogue contends. Rogue’s explanation: None (possibly coincidence?)
12. 1870 Census shows that Burt’s paternal grandmother’s (Effie Thompson) father was named Milo Thompson, almost surely showing this is where Burt’s father got the middle name “Milo”. Rogue’s response: Irrelevant because Burton Milo Reynolds wasn’t Burt’s father.
13. Rogue claims Burt’s father was Burton Leon Reynolds, Sr. Census records show there was no such person. Rogue admits that Burt’s family was from Michigan, but the only Burt/Burton Reynolds listed in Michigan was Burton Milo Reynolds. There was a Burton Lee Reynolds and a Burton L. Reynolds in Maine, but dates and locations show neither of these men could have been Burt’s father. Also, only Burton M. Reynolds was married to a ‘Fern’.: Rogue’s explanation. None, other than to question why Burt is a ‘Jr.’ if his father wasn’t a Burton Leon Reynolds.

JSDA 15:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Material copied from New Georgia Encyclopedia

I have deleted the paragraph headed "Biography" because it was a copyvio from http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.com/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-1516&hl=y, in violation of Wikipedia:Copyrights. -- Donald Albury 23:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

More genealogical evidence, Burt's place of birth

I recently found more supporting genealogical evidence that Burt was born in Lansing, Ingham County, Michigan. Below are scans of photocopies made at a Family History Center, of a Birth Index with Burt on it. He's the 5th one down on the far right side. Scan 1 Scan 2 Also, here is a link to the microfilm that it was from. FHC Link Please note, that it is against the law to see anybody's full Birth Record. Even with this new info, I will not change his place of birth on the main page, because I've learned that belief is more important than the truth. Will leave it to someone else to do this. Lugnut215 23:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Need I state the obvious about those supposed birth records. And the fact that you have made up documents, to try and get them in, only to have it debunked, because in your stuff you said his father's name was Burton Milo. So can you produce a copy of a CERTIFIED document from the State of Michigan? that was certified at time of birth? I say like others say, Give Burt a chance to get his website up and running. Then we'll see, because those Family learning centers have false information at them. My grandmother (who is a published genealogist)has already proved on several accounts for those centers to be wrong. Rogue Gremlin 16:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

- - OK, I've been reading this entire debate, and I finally have to pitch in my 2 cents here. I've been an avid genealogist for years and any REAL genealogist knows that the FHL is the 'mecca' of genealogical records. Calling their legitimacy into question just makes one look uninformed. Can old records be incorrect? Sure. That can happen anywhere, but suggesting that the FHL is some kind of 'National Enquirer' of genealogical information is wildly inaccurate and seriously calls ones credibility into question. There are family trees maintained by the FHL from people that enter their own information that may have errors in them, but the films that you order from the FHC's are films of the original documents. If you want to say he has 'made up' these documents, feel free to make that assertion, but if somebody orders the FHL film referenced here to their local FHC (which anyone can do...I've ordered hundreds of them), and it shows what the images linked here show, I'm sorry, but Burton Leon Reynolds born in 1936 was born in Lansing, Michigan. One might argue this was a different Burton Leon Reynolds, but it sounds like a real uphill battle to me. By the way, intrigued by this subject, I did a quick internet search myself and ran across a link to the New Georgia Encyclopedia and that states Burt Reynolds was born in Lansing. Doesn't prove anything of course, but it seems to me that if Reynolds was actually born in Georgia, the New Georgia Encyclopedia would be a very likely source to claim its 'native son'. Last, you mention above Burton Milo Reynolds as if he was not Burt Reynolds' father, but I'm looking at the 1930 Census right now and it shows Burton "M." Reynolds married to Fern H. Reynolds, with a daughter Nancy A. Is that not Burt's family? I also note that this has his father listed as Burton Milo; http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=_dsw_&id=I16179 . Last, in the 1910 Census, I notice that Fern Miller (Burt's mother's maiden name) is born in 1902 in West Branch, Missaukee County, Michigan (where 'Star City' is located...the Star City that Burt refers to in his autobiography) and her father's name is Leon Miller. This leads me to believe Burt's middle name comes from his maternal grandfather, not his father's middle name. I don't see the name 'Leon' in any of his father's ancestry. I also show that Burt's paternal grandparents were John Burton Reynolds and Effie M. Thompson (also mentioned in his autobiography). A check of the 1870 Census shows that Effie's father was Milo Thompson (surely where the Milo name comes from). - JSDA, May 24, 2007

- - - Couldn't have said it any better. Lugnut215 22:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

- Unbelievable Again! To anyone who has done genealogy before, (even a little), knows they are real. I believe YOU made up that your grandmother is a published genealogist! Reminds me of Jonny Fairplay from the Survivor tv show. /// Do you have any proof, at all, about him being born in Waycross, Ware County, Georgia, that's not on the internet? /// "Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason." - James Randi. Lugnut215 22:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I did not say the centers weren't real, I am saying what is in them is not always the truth. When my grandmother started on her books of Carter's, Aycock's, Altman's, Sapp's it had several relatives information all wrong. So yes i know for a fact all the information in the centers are not 100% acurate, The information at the learning center are there for reference so you can find where to look for things. Call the center in Salt Lake City and ask them if they know for a fact all their information is 100% acurate, They will tell you 'it is not' furthermore the document you supossedly found would not hold up in a court, because it is simply information someone submitted. I don't see any signature with a certification to verify it. As I have given the the facility name for you to call in Waycross, that will verify where exactly his birth certificate is on record. Not to mention the MAN himself is proof, as he says it from his own mouth in televised interviews, And has never in a televised interview said anything about being born in Michigan. Oh and glad you posted your motto cause it describes you perfectly.Rogue Gremlin 00:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

- - Assuming the links to the images he provided are indeed from the actual FHL films, it would indeed 'hold up in court'. That isn't just "information someone submitted", its the County Clerk Birth Index from Ingham County, Michigan. Its not a document that 'Aunt Betty created to put in her family scrapbook'. Its a register of a government agency. I don't know what the story is behind the documentation in Waycross, but it sure would be intersting to know because the evidence I'm seeing here sure seems to point to Burt being born in Michigan. - JSDA, May 24, 2007

Thanks for the support, and being a logical thinker. But you can't convince someone who only believes what they're told. Basically the Gremlin, and others, only believe what Burt himself acknowledges, as the truth. /// And as you will be reminded of, next time, please sign your username, see below. Because your credibility will soon be attacked, seen it before. Lugnut215 22:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

- JSDA then you do not know what you are looking at. That document is not from a government agency and it is not the county clerks records, and the scans are on his personnal website, with NO links to the actual documents that he says exists. I can in fact make a document myself that looks exactly like that and post it here through my own website the same as he tries. The pic he has posted is from his own personal website not a government one. And in fact what he has there would not hold up in court. It is a photocopy, and at that a photocopy that doesn't even bare the resembliance of a certified mark anywhere on it. The guy you are trying to back has already been caught trying to fake things to place on here. Once he was caught he ran away for a while, kept blanking his page and coming in without being signed in and vandalising this page along with others. I can in fact point you to the other IP's he used and show you how to trace it back. And you will see it was him. He has a history of vandalising Burts page as well as other all over wiki. If you go to his personal page, you will see where he keeps going to it and blanking it because he keeps getting warning from the staff on vandalising. Rogue Gremlin 02:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

- - As I said, if you want to make the claim that he is falsifying documents, feel free. All that has to be done to see if its the real deal or not is to order the film yourself. He DID provide a link to the film that anyone can order. The FHL has filmed the County Clerk's Index to Births which is compiled from the actual birth records (which we're not allowed to see for living individuals). They use the index to retrieve the original records (note that it tells you which book & page his birth is recorded in). The images of these films aren't on-line to be linked, so Lugnut put them on his own site. Does that mean he could have falsified them? Sure, but why would he provide a link where anybody can order the film themselves, knowing it would show that he falsified the document if he did? As for me, I simply followed the information being exchanged here, and went to the Census records myself and it backs that Burton Milo Reynolds was his father, and you have a newpaper article quoting Burt himself saying that he was born in Lansing. - JSDA, May 28, 2007

There is NO newspaper article with Burt saying he is from Lansing, If you pay to access the website he provides, It is an interview with someone about Burt, NOT an interview with Burt. The man himself in television interviews from as early as 1969 to as late as 2002 has stated Waycross as his birthplace. Note 2002 is after his supposed autobiography, that even he admits he did not write any of it. He simply spoke some stuff into a tape recorder over a period of 3 days and handed it off. So I will continue to believe the words spoken by the man himself. Plus you are just trying to make assumption as to how he got his name. If you try to use your logic, of Leon. Then why isnt his name Burton Leon Reynolds, and not Burton Leon Reynolds Jr. if there was no Burton Leon for him to be mistaken for? This stuff has all been hashed out with the admins already and what is here about his birth and childhood is to stay as it is. Add anything else you want about his life and career. As those of us that truly care about this article do. I personally have added almost half, dalbury alot of the rest. His birthplace is to remain as is until his website is put back online.Rogue Gremlin 14:14, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

- - - So in his autiobiography, its just coincidence that the people he mentions as his grandparents, uncle, etc happen to match with the people in the Census records? Its just coincidence that there are no Leon's in his paternal ancestry, but his grandfather on his mother's side was named Leon? Its just coincidence that Burt's paternal grandfather was named Milo (Burt's father's middle name)? Its just coincidence there is a birth certificate on file in Lansing stating that Burton Leon Reynolds was born at 1703 Donora Street, on Feb. 11, 1936. (Ref: April 7, 1981, Lansing State Journal) with the father listed as Burton Milo Reynolds and the mother as Ferm Miller...". That 'coincidently' matches what the Ingham County Birth Index shows. Wow, a Burt Leon Reynolds born on the same street that even you concede is the street he was born on, with the same birthdate as THE Burt Reynolds. Its just coincidence that the 1930 Census shows (without a doubt) that Burt Reynold's father is listed as Burton M. Reynolds. You sure do want people to believe there are a lot of coincidences. The newspaper article refers to a telephone interview with Burt himself stating that he was born in Michigan. I didn't say the article itself was an interview with Burt. There is also an article there with a family friend of Burt's father who was told by Burt Sr. that he has no idea why some biographies claim Burt was born in Georgia when it simply isn't true. JSDA 21:45, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Well LugnutJr. If you ae a real Burt Reynolds fan. You would have watched all of Burt interviews on TV. ALL off them (from his own mouth) he says he was born in Waycross, Georgia. He even had them add a line to the movie Stroker Ace paying tribute to the fact.Rogue Gremlin 03:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Well Stan, I see you realize you're fighting a losing battle now. When presented with a mountain of evidence pointing to Lansing as his birthplace, all you can fall back on is "I saw Burt on TV say he was from Waycross". You will get no argument from me that Burt considers himself a southerner. Thats obvious. He even stated himself in the telephone interview that is quoted that he never considered himself a Michigander even though he was born there...but the subject is where he was born, not whether or not Burt considers himself a southerner.JSDA 20:21, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

And furthermore funny how this JSDA showed Lugnut showed up and left comments on the exact same day. and how the JSDA is not signed but a fake signature so you can't trace it back. Sure seems funny to me + the fact that this fake person acts as if the have no interest in burt reaynolds but are not only on his discussion page but makes comments as if they have been here often. Strange how once again lugnut trips himself up.Rogue Gremlin 04:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

- - Well, I didn't sign in because I don't have an acct. Accusing me of being Lugnut is pretty funny. I can create an acct so you can see my IP and verify that I'm not the same person, but something tells me that if I do that, you'll just create some other reason why this is all a big scam. By the way, when did I say I have no interest in Burt Reynolds? I'm a Burt Reynolds fan and was reading about him when I noticed the 'disputed birthplace' and thats what led me here. Lugnut responded on the same day because after I posted my comments, I emailed him telling him that I had weighed in on the subject and that what I'd found in the Census records bares out what he has shown. - JSDA, May 28, 2007

It's funny how you mentioned emailing Lugnut, since after you posted on here, i kept a watch on you ip address usage on here, as well as Lugnuts page (which hasn't had ANY activity on any part off it since May 11)and, the page that would have became yours and yet there was no email addy's anywhere. Which means you're him or either you know him outside the context of wiki and just came him to try and back him up or something else even stranger, but i don't want to know. If you are an avid fan of Burt then add something of value to his page, and not stalk it and vandalize it like Lugnut does. He himself only comes here and tries to delete things and mess with his birthplace. And not add anythig substantial to the page itself. These discussions have do ne been had with admins, decisions have already been made. Burts personal site will be up and running soon. Please only add substantial stuff to his page.Rogue Gremlin 14:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

- - - This is crazy. I am not Lugnut and knew nothing about him OR this page more than a week or two ago. As I said, I am nothing more than a Burt Reynolds fan who happened to come to his wiki page and noticed the 'birthplace disputed' section and went to the discussion page to see what that was about. Then, being an a REAL genealogist, as compared to one that thinks the FHL is the National Inquirer of genealogical records, I decided to use the REAL tools at my disposal (as opposed to "I saw on tv"), to get to the truth. Thats it conspiracy guy. JSDA 18:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

- - - Here, I just created an acct to show that I'm not Lugnut. Turns out I'm not a 'fake person'. JSDA 22:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

And JSDA your link to worldconnect.roots web had this disclaimer on the page "The data posted here is from a variety of sources and should be used only as a guide for further research" and "RootsWeb.com, Inc. is NOT responsible for the content of the GEDCOMs uploaded through the WorldConnect Program. If you have a problem with a particular entry, please contact the submitter of said entry. You have full control over your GEDCOM. You can change or remove it at any time." This was put on this site undoubtably by one person and one person only. I can create the same lineage on this site but replace anything i want.Rogue Gremlin 04:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

- - No question, anybody can create whatever they want and post it. I was just using that to show that other people show Burt's father was Burton Milo Reynolds as well. You seem to want to discredit all of the evidence Lugnut has posted based on the notion that Burt's father wasn't Burton Milo Reynolds. Problem is, Burton Milo Reynolds WAS Burt's father. You've got a mountain of evidence that you're trying to discredit based on an idea that you have that is incorrect. In addition to the County Clerk Birth Index for Ingham County showing that Burt was born there and newspaper articles backing this up (including a quote from Burt himself from a telephone interview), the Census records make it pretty obvious who Burt's parents were, who his grandparents were, and where the middle names come from:

1930 Census, Lansing, Ingham Co., Michigan: http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x184/JSDA15/1930InghamCountyMI.jpg

1920 Census, Missaukee Co., Michigan: http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x184/JSDA15/1920MissaukeeCountyMI.jpg

1870 Census, Ingham Co., Michigan: http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x184/JSDA15/1870InghamCountyMI.jpg

Let me guess, Lugnut and I are both creating false documents now? Anybody can order the FHL film he showed, and anybody can view the same Census images that I've posted to verify that I haven't modified them in any way. JSDA 23:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

His website will be up and running soon. The discussion will be over then, Lugnut. Rogue Gremlin 13:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Note: Burt Reynold's Official Website is now live and it confirms that Burt Reynolds was born in Lansing, Michigan. See Link:

http://burtreynolds.com/features.personal_faqs/ JSDA 04:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - - Well there's a real surprise. Elsewhere on this page you say:

....but as predicted, you change your tune when Burt's Official site comes back and confirms what the genealogical records, newspaper clippings, and his autobiography show. Something tells me if his official site came back and said Waycross, GA was his birthplace, the site would be gospel, and our saying "Well, thats obviously not right" would just be sour grapes on our part and 'disputed' would be replaced on the main page with 'Waycross, GA' as his birthplace (tell me I'm wrong there...you know I'm not). You might want to check with VPI (the company that manages Burt's Official site). When I asked them about the birthplace info, they came back a week or so later and wrote (and I quote), "We have confirmed that Burt's birthplace was Lansing, Michigan. We have also posted it online: http://burtreynolds.com/features.personal_faqs/ I hope this helps to clear things up." And note, I didn't ask them any leading questions, or give any indication where 'I' thought he was born. I simply wrote that I'd noticed Burt's page doesn't contain any information on his birthplace, and there is a good deal of debate as to whether it was Lansing, MI or Waycross, GA, and I was wondering if they could clear up the issue once and for all. JSDA 06:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - Well Stan (I figure if you're going to call me by somebody else's name, I can play that game too) public records don't lie. Even if Burt's site came up and stated that Burt was born in Lansing, I'm sure you wouldn't believe it. It would just be the 'Lansing Conspiracy', infiltrating the company that runs Burt's website. No explanation as to why Burt's father's middle initial is listed as "M" on the 1930 Census? Shocking. Or are we to believe again that its just a coincidence that there was an error where his middle initial appears as the same letter that the name "Milo" starts with? JSDA 18:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

- - - - By the way, there are NO other Burt or Burton Reynolds from or in Michigan in the 1910, 1920, or 1930 Census other than Burton Milo Reynolds (and I believe you've already conceded that Burt's parents were from Michigan correct?) In 1930, there are only 2 Burton L. Reynolds in the entire country. One was a Burton "Lee" Reynolds, and the other Burton L. Reynolds, born 1921 in Maine (clearly neither were Burt's father). Not only that, but there are ZERO Burt or Burton Reynolds married to or living with a "Fern" in the 1930 Census (and Burt's younger sister Nancy was alive in 1930) other than Burton Milo Reynolds. I sure would like to see some proof that this Burton 'Leon' Reynolds Sr. existed, because genealogical records say he didn't.JSDA 19:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

- Interesting. I don't get on the computer for four days, and you keep your lying going, Gremlin. As predicted!!! Not ONE administrator ever has told me anything. And please DO tell them about these so-called fake entry's, that YOU made and said were me. I blank my personal page, because of YOUR constant messing with it. Also, I love how you brag that you're responsible for creating most of Burt's page. Another lie. Still haven't seen one piece of genealogical evidence about Waycross. Just one, please, just to shut me up. Lugnut215 20:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you have been warned under your ip address' that we traced, When you choose to vandalize without loggin in, In fact the ip address had 4 seperate warnings against it, with the last one stating if you vandalize one more time the whole ip range would be blocked. You were caught on several occasions. (And i never did anything saying I was you). The most stuff on Burt's page are from me and dalbury, I'm not saying we created it that honor goes to Pagingmrherman, but when you go section for section and content dalbury and I have contributed the most.Rogue Gremlin 22:43, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

- Here are my contributions, (in the box on top right with his pic, i ADDED spouses, notable roles, academy and emmy awards),

(in main the body i ADDED the section and the content of, biography, southern filmaking, sports team owner, Honorary Recognitions, Awards/Achievements, Talk/Variety Show Appearances), (i also had an admin show me how to add the notes section), And i made contributions to the starting paragraph, career, personal life, filmography, tv work and referencesRogue Gremlin 23:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Stop Already

To Rogue Gremlin and JSDA, stop already! Enough! I'm not very religious, but I do know this bible verse, both of you please read and absorb.

"God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, courage to change the things we can, and wisdom to know the difference." Lugnut215 20:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Well Rogue, I guess there is your proof that Lugnut & I are not the same person. I rarely lecture myself. Ha! JSDA 15:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Explain This One, Gremlin

As JSDA added above, Lansing, Michigan is now on his "Official Web Site" as his place of birth. How do you explain this one away??? Are you going to continue the hype? And as I've mentioned before, it's fine that he claims he's from the south, but it is not the truth. Again here's the website link. Burt Reynolds.com Lugnut215 00:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

It is obvious the person doing the page is just regurjitating facts found on the web and not fact checking. Because here is another "LIE" that is in the personal FAQs "Reynolds was drafted by the Baltimore Colts, but injured his knee before the start of the season" I can provide you all the draft information, He was NEVER drafted by any team. And his knee injury happened while still at FSU. I also noticed how the whole site overly refers to him in the third person. Bottom line is in his televised interviews when asked his birthplace, he says Waycross, Georgia. He has said it about 10 different interviews, and there isn't one televised interview where he says Michigan.Rogue Gremlin 03:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

- Well there's a real surprise. Elsewhere on this page you say:

Bottom Line

The ridiculous part of this entire debate is that nobody is questioning that Burt considers himself a southerner, or that since his childhood, he has lived in the south. He himself stated "I've never considered myself a Michigander" (Lansing State Journal, Sept. 25, 1987) even though he was born there. Its just a simple fact about where he was born (which Reynolds also mentions in the article cited). JSDA 23:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced material in a biography of a living person

I have once again removed the unsourced claims about what Burt Reynolds has said about his birthplace on various television shows. The official policy at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons states, "Unsourced or poorly sourced material — whether negative, positive, or just questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space." Rogue Gremlin has violated this policy several times now. If he violates it again, I will open a Request for comment on him. A previous RfC on the article did not resolve the issues. -- Donald Albury 23:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted Rogue Gremlin again, as the sources he cited, while giving Waycross as Burt's birthplace, do not support his statement that "Burt has stated over the years that he was born in Waycross, Georgia." -- Donald Albury 09:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Dalbury, I noticed your update that "Reynolds' autobiography (My Life) does not name his birthplace, although it does cover his childhood in Lansing, and fails to mention Waycross at all.". That is accurate in that there is nothing saying "I was born in Lansing", but clearly it is implied as he is speaking about Lansing when he notes that his parents were living in a small house on Donora Street when his mother went into labor with him. He mentions his parents living in Lansing just a few paragraphs before this (with no other location mentioned in between), and there is no mention of where Donora Street is located because I'm sure he assumes everybody would realize that's where he was talking about (not to mention, the only Donora Streets in the U.S. are in Lansing, MI and Pittsburgh, PA). Maybe you didn't add any more than you did because it falls under that 'draws a conclusion from a source - which isn't allowed' guideline you mentioned, so I didn't make any updates to that info, and thought I'd check on it here. And even if its not allowed, I just wanted to note it here so anyone coming to discussion page could see there is more information in his autobiography regarding his birthplace than mentioned on the article page. JSDA 18:25, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of valid citations

Rogue Gremlin is now deleting valid citations from the article. I've already reverted him a couple of times today, so I am holding back. -- Donald Albury 01:19, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of what citations?

Rogue Gremlin, you have just accused me (in an edit summary) of removing sourced information. What are you talking about? -- Donald Albury 19:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm also confused by the 'copyvio' note in the Early Life section. I don't think I've added any info in the early-life section other than the city directories info, which I already removed myself because it just further fueled the birthplace edit-fest. However, I'm not sure what is being referred to in regards to copyvio. Its starting to look like anything referencing Georgia or Michigan at all on the article page (outside of the note about the birthplace dispute) is just going to perpetuate daily editing/deleting of content on the article page. In my opinion, we should all (if possible) agree remove anything referencing either location on the article page (except for the birthplace dispute note) to try to put an end to that. Seems to me the debate on this subject should be taking place on the discussion page, not on the article page. Jockying for position on the article page seems to have accomplished nothing but a messy Burt Reynolds Wiki page. JSDA 20:37, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

My preference would be to ignore the question of Burt's birthplace outside of the footnote, but that will take a consensus of the editors interested in this page, so I'm not going to push it. -- Donald Albury 00:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Also not a regular editor here, but it seems a reasonable solution to me. Nothing else about his childhood is included. The constant reverting seems pointless to me. -Jmh123 00:25, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - Rogue and I have been discussing on my talk page, and it appears that he is in agreement as well. We will remove all references to Waycross and Lansing on the article page except for the note regarding the Birthplace Dispute and reference to the discussion page. JSDA 02:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

- - - - OK, I've attempted to make the agreed upon changes on the article page that remove any reference to Burt being from Waycross or Lansing (outside of the Notes section noting the birthplace dispute and the reference to this discussion page), whether it was directly or indirectly implied. Hopefully this is still acceptable to all. JSDA 04:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I like it, I tried something similar before. Hope RogueGremlin sticks with it. Lugnut215 22:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Hair?

Given Burt's famous wearing of toupees over the years, I think his hair has to be mentioned.