Talk:Burning of Washington

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is supported by the District of Columbia WikiProject.

This project provides a central approach to District of Columbia-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the Project's quality scale.
(If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.


Contents

[edit] Ok, this is just bad.

Clearly, some of the people who've contributed to this article haven't done much research.

First, there were no Canadian or Canadien troops in the attack on the City of Washington. Canadians in Upper Canada were mostly second and third generation exiles from the American War of Independance who had chosen to remain loyal to Britain. They had a hard life and were just interested in protecting what they had built themselves. The Canadiens were the original French Catholic settlers of Lower Canada who viewed the War of 1812 as a war between English Protestants and English Protestants. They didn't care who won as long as the victors would leave them alone. If anything, the residents of Canada were in local militia units, not the British Army Units that attacked Washington straight from the fields of battle in the Peninsula War in Europe.

Second, as to "Background", the burning of Washington was not in retaliation for the invasion of York. Rear Admiral Sir George Cockburn arrived in the Chesapeake Bay in March of 1813 and started developing his plan to attack Washington long before he had heard about York (remember that, before railroads and the telegraph, news only traveled as fast as a man on horseback). When Vice Admiral Sir Alexander Cochrane and Major General Robert Ross arrived in the Chesapeake Bay in August of 1814, they were reluctant to attack Washington. Instead, they wanted to attack Baltimore, the homeport for many American Privateers who were disrupting British shipping elsewhere in the world. They didn't want to take a chance on reducing their force by attacking a villiage with little strategic significance that might be heavily defended. Cockburn convinced Cochrane and Ross that Washington would be easy pickings, so they consented. In fact, during the advance on Washington, Cochrane, still in his flagship at the mouth of the Patuxent, ordered Ross and Cockburn to withdraw, but Cockburn convinced Ross to ignore the order.

Third, as to "Occupation and Burning", the timeline is a little disrupted (no doubt a result of multiple edits.) The last sentence of the second paragraph should be the first sentence of the fourth paragraph. It refers to the episode regarding the National Intelligencer, which happened after the epidode at the President's House described in the third paragraph (What we call "The White House" today, was called The President's House or The President's Mansion back then. Though it had been painted white long before the British arrived, only a few people refered to it as The White House, usually in a overly familiar tone that bordered on irreverent.)

This account also fails to mention the other public building to be spared. Along with the US Patent Office, the Residence of the Commandant of the US Marine Corps, in the Washington Navy Yard, was spared. It is the oldest public building in the city of Washington.

Also, the last sentance is meaningless and inflamitory. It also presumes that President Madison and the rest of the government were able to prosecute the war effectively before the British attack, which has not been substantiated.

Fourth, as to "Aftermath", in addition to being a gross oversimplification of the circumstances, much of what is said in the last paragraph is just plain wrong. The attacks refered to as "Britain's three objsective" were not British Objectives but a few of the many objectives of the local theater commanders. In Upper Canada and the Northwest Territories, the objectives of the local British theater commanders were mostly to defend what they already had, which they did quite well, and to limit the ability of the US forces to advance on them, which they did with varying degees of success. Remember that the US was the agressor in this war (though not without significant provocation), so The United Kingdom didn't have any military objectives.

Also, Cockburn's plan was to attack Baltimore by land after invading Washington, a march of just 35 miles. This would have caught Baltimore's defenders off guard, but Ross saw that his men were exhausted and wanted to return to the ships. Remember that this was a hot, humid August, and the British Army uniform consisted of three layers of heavy wool. Many of the British Soldiers that died at the Battle of Bladensurg hadn't suffered a wound; they died from heat related exhaustion.

Last, a lot of well documented information has been left out of the statistics in the upper right frame.

I look forward to your comments.

Tom Cavanaugh The Road to Washington - British Army Style

[edit] "White House" Naming

According to the article on the White House, the story that the phrase "White House" became associated with the president's residence after it was repainted following the burning of Washington is an urban legend, "confirmed" by Snopes. Would there be any objection to removing this bit from this article?--SFBADanceDude 00:55, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I doubt there would be an objection -- I, too, noticed the inconsistency. I say, go for it. --Stevestrange 06:25, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. The "myth" was more than that. The white paint was used to cover up the marks and the term was in wider use after that time. It made it quite an event to rebuild a building that should have been caved in, painting over the blackness with white paint and restoring the building for the President. This "myth" was not a myth. --Noitall 04:42, September 13, 2005 (UTC)
You know, Noitall, I think I'm going to have to go with the White House Historical Association on this one. --Dhartung | Talk 08:49, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

The White House Historical Association states the following:

The occupation of Washington by British troops lasted about twenty-six hours, but evidence of their vandalism survives to this day. Some of the blocks of Virginia sandstone that make up the original walls of the White House are clearly defaced with black scorch marks. They are the indelible stains from the fires of 1814.'Italic text

This section and 'Aftermath' contradict each other - was it called the white house before the war or not?--146.87.82.242 12:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it's ok now --AW 13:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aftermath section

The "Aftermath" section reads as though the British were aggressors bravely repelled in the War of 1812. Here follows a line-by-line commentary of the non-NPOV paragraph. Yes, it's not blatant, and from what I understand it's what American children read in their textbooks, but it's not encyclopaedic.

Of the three objectives of Britain's invasion of the U.S., Lake Champlain, Baltimore and Washington, D.C. this was the only attack that was successful.

Perhaps "retaliatory invasion"? For those that aren't familiar with the war of 1812, this reads as though the British initiated war by invading the US. Suggested: Of Britain's three objectives in its retaliatory invasion of the United States, Lake Champlain, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C., this was the only succesful attack.

Although they had succeeded in diverting the necessary attention of Washington away from the war, the field commanders proved themselves and beat back every invasion that the British launched against the U.S. for the rest of the war.

Use of the word "although" implies that there will be a point and a counterpoint; instead, we have the point that the British achieved their strategic objectives, balanced by the undefended statement that the US commanders (who weren't actually present at the burning, from what I understand) proved themselves. I am not sure that one can prove oneself at an unequivocal defeat like Bladensburg, either. It reads as if American cheerleaders are trying to pass this off as a perverse sort of victory. Suggested: Although the British had succesfully diverted the attention of Washington away from the war, American field commanders succesfully repelled every other British attack for the remainder of the war.

RE: Americans repelling every British attack? -- It was the Treaty of Ghent that made the British leave Maine, which they captured and still held by the end of the war. Would this not be considered a British attack that America did not repel? A stroke of the pen, not of the sword, gave Maine back to them. And, although it's fair to state in the Aftermath that morale did not suffer in the US to the degree that the British wanted, it should also be fair to say that it inevitably affected American confidence in prolonging the campaign: the Treaty of Ghent was signed by the end of the year. SCrews 04:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
It is not accurate to say that America repelled every British attack. The British held territory captured in Maine for the duration of the war. The British naval blockade of the coast was clearly another glaring action that remained in place until the treaty was signed. SCrews 15:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Cockburn's belief that the destruction of the capital would demoralize the American populace also proved false. The destruction galvanized thousands to volunteer for the defense of Baltimore.

Why "also"? What other assertions of his proved false? Also, although galvanized is without a doubt a pretty word, it is not an objective one. Suggested: Further, the attack did not have the demoralizing effect Cockburn intended. Rather, it led thousands to volunteer to defend Baltimore. Kai 20:19, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

A few weeks ago I reverted some vandalism on the article and noticed the poor word choice in the last paragraphs, but I was too lazy to do anything about it. You've raised valid issues about the wording, and your suggested improvements seem logical and unbiased. Go ahead and edit using the suggestions above; I think they sound fine. --NormanEinstein 20:41, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] British or Canadian?

The burning of Washington was largely British troops right, not Canadian? The page below says they were from Wellington's army, thus largely English. Maybe some could have been Canadian too, but if you say that, I bet some were Scottish and Irish as well.

[1]

Awiseman 19:57, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


The term "British" refers to those from Great Britain, so listing English, Scottish, et cetera separately is the equivalent of saying "Canadians and Quebecois" everytime you refer to Canada. I am under the impression that the term can refer to Irish people who were ruled by the British. If Canadian troops were involved, the question is then whether the troops from Canada should be referred to as British. Today, people from current British colonies can be referred to as British, and since 2002 can be British citizens; before then, they could not be, making the term less apt. Chances are, the hypothetical 'Canadian' troops would have thought of themselves as British, but also as Canadian. A key point is that, if Canadians were involved, they are the ancestors of many current Canadians literally and culturally, and as such their actions in the war of 1812 are as much a part of the Canadian cultural identity (or more so) than of the British. Many Canadians would fight tooth and nail to have the troops called Canadian; I'm a Canadian, and I think it would be nice, if in fact there were troops involved who lived in what is now Canada. Historical accuracy, if it comes down to it, would trump sentimental nationalism.

Of course, as the sharp readers might have picked up, a key point here is whether any of the troops involved were from Canada; as well, their status within the British army may make a difference.

Thoughts?


Kai 05:02, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Good points all, but the reason I bring it up is because somebody changed "British" to "British Canadian," although I have always read it was mostly British regulars from Wellington's European army who attacked Washington. I haven't heard anything about British Canadian troops in Washington - they couldn't have fought their way down from Canada, so did the British troops come straight from Europe, or did they stop somewhere in Canada, maybe pick up some Canadians, and then come down the coast? Awiseman 15:23, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I would have thought that post 1801 that any Irish participants would have also been British (as there is no adjective for United Kingdom-ish)

[edit] Canadian involvement (?)

I've just moved the following line here, from the end of the second paragraph under the first section (Background) in the article:

"This is contrary to the belief that Canadian forces participated in the Burning of Washington, as it is unlikely that any Canadian militia would have been brought to invade the first place, and if so, they would have been routed at the Battle of Plattsburgh."

The British North American command during the War was called the North American Station. It was first commanded by John Borlase Warren. As the Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online says at http://www.biographi.ca/EN/ShowBio.asp?BioId=37311 -- with selective emphasis added:

"Warren's major North American service came during the War of 1812. As admiral of the blue he was appointed on 3 Aug. 1812 to the Halifax, Leeward Islands, and Jamaica stations, the Admiralty having unified the three commands to allow him to direct the overall naval strategy of the war. Warren's initial task upon his arrival at Halifax in September was to negotiate an end to the conflict with the American secretary of state, James Monroe. After this attempt failed, he laid out his strategy of fighting a defensive war off the North American coast to protect trade, while keeping up limited blockades of American waters with forces operating from the two main bases of Halifax and Bermuda. Writing privately in December to Lord Melville, his patron at the Admiralty, Warren argued that a series of raids on the enemy coast, and selective blockades until reinforcements were sent, would keep American military forces tied down and relieve pressure on British North America. To strengthen inland naval defences, Warren advised the Admiralty to send a force to the Canadian lakes, a recommendation which was followed in March 1813 with the ordering out of seamen under Sir James Lucas Yeo. Warren also urged Sir George Prevost, the military commander in North America, to build more ships on the lakes, and dispatched three of his lieutenants, Robert Heriot Barclay, Daniel Pring, and Robert Finnis, there."

"Unfortunately for Warren, the force at his disposal always lacked ships, seamen, provisions, and stores, even after reinforcements arrived. His incessant requests probably irritated the Admiralty, and he was reprimanded for them by its secretary, John Wilson Croker. Yet Warren's vessels had to blockade the main American ports from New York City south, watch and restrain scores of privateers, be alert for forays by the American frigates and sloops, guard the convoys from Jamaica to Quebec, protect Halifax and Bermuda, and carry out raids on the coasts of Chesapeake and Delaware bays. He was relieved in March 1814, when the Admiralty re-established independent stations and appointed Sir Alexander Forrester Inglis Cochrane to the North American one. Warren was embittered enough to protest to Lord Melville and to hold up transfer of the command to Cochrane until 1 April."

The point of this lengthy quote? From the start of the war in 1812 until April 1814, the British naval command of the eastern seaboard was based in Halifax. Even after April 1814, the commander of the Halifax Station (not the commanders of the Leeward Islands or Jamaica stations) was responsible for planning the combined operations of the navy, British Marines and British army forces. Including substantial raids on the US eastern coast.

That commander of Halifax Station was Vice Admiral Alexander Cochrane. He was the senior British office in theatre command, and both Admiral George Cockburn and General Robert Ross would report to him.

A substantial portion of the raiding party, including over a thousand Royal Navy Marines, sailed from Halifax in what is now Nova Scotia, Canada. Therefore the mention of Plattsburgh (and the land campaign south from Quebec) in the line I removed should be irrelevant.

In order for Canadians (either Canadians serving in militia forces, or Canadians serving in the regular British Army or Royal Marines) to participate in the Burning of Washington, it is very likely all they had to do was walk on board a British ship docked in a harbour in what is now Canada. Given that at the time the Baltimore/ Washington raid, the War of 1812 had been in progress for two years and nearly two months, it is also entirely reasonable to assume there were Canadians in the raiding parties. Either in militia companies, or serving in the regular British army or Royal Marines.

In a war when militia companies frequently travelled long distances -- a Newfoundland regiment was present at the Battle of York (now Toronto) and at Mackinac, for one example -- to assume no Canadians were in the forces used in the Chesapeake campaign, seems to me to border on absurdity.

Cheers, Madmagic 04:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The invasion force that attacked Washington consisted of British forces from the Peninsula War in Spain, Scottish volunteers (85th Regiment Bucks Volunteers), and Royal Marines from the Napoleonic Wars in Europe. Admiral Cockburn's forces were also from the European theatre and had been ordered to conduct raids on the Atlantic coast. The Royal Marines were having manpower problems during the Napoleonic War, and it's ranks were supplemented by British army regulars, not Canadian militia.
Consider this, if the force of mostly British from Europe had recruited a few Canadians (over the more readily available freed slaves or European mercenaries) as replacements, does their presence automatically give the Canadians a substantial credit to the occupation of Washington? By that logic, the Scottish, Spanish, African slaves, and who knows what other individual nationality could have been present there, should also be given credit to the glorified vandalism of government propery. Godfather of Naples on 23:03, 20 March 2006, (UTC)
Please re-read the line I moved from the article to this Talk page, the citation I quoted, and my reasons for doing what I did. And please provide citations for your statements above.
I am not suggesting substantial credit be given to Canada, to Canadians, or to Canadian units for the occupation of Washington. I am saying the Canadian contribution to the Chesapeake Campaign and the occupation of Washington should not be ignored or dismissed out of hand -- as it was in the statement I moved from the article to this page.
Regarding what you call "the glorified vandalism of government propery" -- the destruction of US government buildings in Washington in August 1814 was in part a retaliation by British forces for the same kind of destruction done by US forces on government property -- when the US occupied and burned the Parliament Buildings of Upper Canada in the Battle of York on April 27, 1813. However, unlike the US forces in York, the British didn't pillage or loot private homes.
You might also check the geographical location of Halifax, the headquarters of the British North American Station during the War of 1812 (see citation and quote, above.) Halifax is not located in Scotland, Africa, or Spain. Cheers, Madmagic 23:00, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Again, your point about Halifax is irrevelant. Simply because a city in British North America served as a military headquarters and staging area doesn't mean the force that invaded and occupied Washington was, or had any military units, that were Canadian. All of the units available were either British regulars or marines. My point about Africans, Spaniards, or Scots was not about were the invasion was launched from, I was merely pointing out that the nationalities of individuals present at the invasion is irrevelant. Credit is to be given to the national army responsible, in this case, the British. Your point seemed to be that a few Canadians may have ended up at Washington, "by simply hoping on a British ship", though a more educated and creditable explanation is that they may have joined as replacements.
Unfortunately for the point you are trying to make, such an assumption is not only unprovable, but irrevelant as the military units they joined are British, not Canadian. There were no militia (other than American) present at the Burning of Washington. Seriously, ask yourself, would a veteran British army of over four thousand strong even need militia?
http://www.warof1812.ca/charts/regts_na.htm
Those are the regiments in the War of 1812. The regiments present at Washington are the British 4th Regiment (King's Own), 21st Regiment (Royal British North Fusiliers), 44th Regiment (Essex), 85th Regiment (Bucks Volunteers), and Royal Marines. All of which are either British or Scottish regiments.
As for the remark about "the glorified vandalism of government propery", it was not to show that the Burning of Washington was unjustified, but rather that an event that so many Canadian "historians" not only falsely claim is credit to Canada, but fight so hard to stand by these statements when the Burning of Washington was nothing but that -- "the glorified vandalism of government propery", and overall a strategically unimportant victory which ultimately led to a major defeat at Baltimore. By your logic, Canadians could have possibly been present at Baltimore as well as Plattsburgh (of which they more likely were present at) or New Orleans. Rather than me seeing countless Canadian wiki "historians" edit their nation's pre-history involvement into these defeats, they naturally seem more concerned about stealing historical glory from the British. I guess you can't expect historical revisionism to work both ways though. Godfather of Naples on 15:46, 22 March 2006, (UTC)
Look, go back up and re-read the line I originally removed from the article. I've asked you to do this before -- see above, where I wrote "Please re-read the line I moved from the article to this Talk page, the citation I quoted, and my reasons for doing what I did."
I removed the line for good reasons. I gave those reasons in what I wrote, immediately following. And within that context, my point about Halifax was not -- and is not -- irrelevant. Read the original line and the comments.
Regarding your comments about historical revisionism, I strongly suggest you read Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not -- especially Wikipedia is not a battleground.
If you want to discuss Canadian, British or US historical revisionism, then kindly take your views to a forum where it is appropriate. Respectfully, I'd also strongly suggest you read Wikipedia:Etiquette. If you're not prepared to Assume good faith and practice civility, this may not be your kind of place. Cheers, Madmagic 19:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
You just keep telling me the same thing, to 're-read' your post (As if I was mysteriously able to intake literature without reading a first time). Trust me, I've read your points, debunked your points, and if you are feeling so offended by it that you need to bring up etiquette, as if I had committed ad hominem which clearly isn't the case, then you should just lay down the horn. Your original modification to the cited line was that a three way invasion was staged from Canada. Since this is a crude generalization of the invasion, the line was removed.
Claiming that Canada was involved in the Burning of Washington is like saying that America was involved in the capture of Berlin during World War 2 "because part of the command was based from there". It's simple historical revisionism. I dealt with your fallacies in this discussion without having to issue etiquette 'warnings'. You skewed history by saying, I quote, "it is also entirely reasonable to assume there were Canadians in the raiding parties. Either in militia companies, or serving in the regular British army or Royal Marines", I merely attempted successfully (until otherwise proven) to prove that Canada's involvement was less glorious, more likely non-existant.
Your next reply should show me credible sources linking to a Canadian militia, let alone national regiment, present at the Burning of Washington, not attack my writing style because you might consider something or other offensive. I know what etiquette is. Don't waste my time with replies which assume that I am ignorant towards debating values, and leave all assumptions that I'm some 'wikipedia troll' at the door. I came here to prove that Canada has no stake to claim in the Burning of Washington, not to waste my time discussing ethics, nor to let this degrade into mudslinging. If you desire otherwise, feel free to clear the discussion. Godfather of Naples on 20:45, 22 March 2006, (UTC)
If I wanted to prove Canadian militia forces were present at the Burning of Washington, or debate with you whether any Canadian forces were present, I would research and cite other references. I have no interest in proving the first point to you and I have no interest in debating with you. Nor am I interested in discussing this issue with you any further. I have already made my points above, and in my opinion you have not responded to them. Which is the reason I have twice suggested that you re-read what I first wrote.
I did not attack you or your writing style. Neither did I call you ignorant or a troll. What I wrote was: "Respectfully, I'd also strongly suggest you read Wikipedia:Etiquette." And specifically, the two articles on assuming good faith and civility. The reason I strongly suggested you read them is because, in my opinion, 1) you are not being civil, and 2) you are not assuming good faith.
Kindly stop your negative and unfriendly comments or I'll take this to dispute resolution. I'm here to write and edit articles -- I've made over 1200 edits -- not to insult or to be insulted. Madmagic 22:27, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
You claimed that Canadian militia regiments would have been present at the Burning of Washington and to think otherwise was absurd, then compelled me to find 'citations' that proved otherwise. I gave you the regiments present, two of which had no chance of having a Canadian in it, the other three may have had scattered nationalities but what difference does it make. There are no listings of any Canadian militia present at the Burning of Washington. Any Canadian militia would have more likely been spared in the Plattsburgh offensive. My statement was correct. Stop going on about your edit count and etiquette... I'm not intimited by veterancy, and if you think I'm being too hard on you then all I can say is be a man. The internet, especially online discussion, is an 'in your face' environment and I'm not even being rough on you. Instead of threatening to take it to dispute resolution (as if it's even that serious), perhaps you should convince me I'm wrong. Try to keep it one paragraph too, the posting in this section is getting cluttered as it is. Godfather of Naples 23:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Sort out this "Canadian" issue with the article on the War of 1812 article, which clearly states: "It is also important to point out that, when the United States attacked British North America, most of the British forces were engaged in the Napoleonic Wars. This meant that British North America had minimal troops to defend against the United States, who had a much larger (though poorly trained) military force. For most of the war, British North America stood alone against a much stronger American force. Reinforcements from Britain did not arrive until 1814, the final year of the war. The repelling of the stronger American force helped to build unity in British North America. This was most notable between the French and English divisions in Upper and Lower Canada."

Therefore, please note that it is quite likely that Canadians were involved in the Burning of Washington, and also note (Tom) that this war actually brought the French, and the English together in Canada against a common enemy (not just English Protestants versus English Protestants as you claim).

It would be nice to see some actual unbiased proof here, but almost all sources are Canadian, American, or British.

Also, as a point, where is the source for the last bit: "Of Britain's four objectives in its retaliatory invasion of the United States, Lake Champlain, New Orleans, Baltimore, and Washington, D.C., this was to be the only successful attack. Although the British had successfully diverted the attention of Washington away from the war and prevented further American incursions into Canada, American field commanders repelled every other British attack for the remainder of the war. Furthermore, the attack did not have the demoralizing effect Cockburn intended. Rather, it led thousands to volunteer to defend Baltimore."?

Specifically, the last two sentences? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.230.23.184 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


re the comment above that the regiments were either British or Scottish - Alex Salmond will be pleased....but there was no such country as Britain until Endland and Scotland joined in a union. Scotland is fundemental part of Great Britain!

Wow. This whole discussion is very, very awkward. It sounds to me as though Americans don't want to accept 'Canadians' as having been involved in burning their capital, and are neglecting to realize that there's no 'objective' evidence of this because there's none to be had. It's a typically American thing (I see it everywhere--in the use of the word 'independence' to refer to the BNA act, for example) to interpret Canadian history through a US lens.
Put simply, there was *no official distinction at all* to be made between 'British' and 'Canadian' elements in this conflict. There simply is no basis for a distinction. 'Canadien,' for example, refers to an ethnic faction that is a remnant of the Conquest, by England, of New France. At the time of the war of 1812, the Provinces of Upper and Lower Canada were governed by direct representatives of the Crown, in charge of appointed executive councils. Everyone in Canada, (English or French, or otherwise) was a British subject, and aside from the issue of representative government (as it culminated in the Patriote Rebellions, for example), had no problem with that.
If you don't want Canadians to have been involved in burning Washington, you're going to have to start looking at the event in its historical perspective; essentially, there was no such thing as a Canadian in 1812-1815. If you don't want to look at it in that perspective, then you're going to have to accept that the descendants of the people involved in that war (regulars or otherwise) now reside in Canada, a country created in 1867 from the British Province that this event was initiated from.
The answer to this apparently very contentious question lies in your definition of Canadian. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Were the people who lived in Canada British, or were they Canadian? The answer is that they were *all of them* *British* until 1867, and now their descendants (many of which are the descendants of the soldiers who fought in that war) are Canadians.
Maybe the American-oriented perspective could be put aside in an effort to actually understand the unique nature of the Canadian experience? We (Canadians) generally don't care what you think of the British, but *back then*, even when we were French, Irish, Scottish, or German we were British. We're the descendants of the British subjects of many distinct nations who lived in a *province* of the empire. In the historical perspective, the groups are one and the same. Get over it. Canadians burned Washington. Sigma-6 18:18, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Of course. Just like Californians and Kansans burned down Atlanta in shermans March to the sea. There was no distinction among residents of various parts of the union, they were all US citizens, so hopefully US civil war articles will properly credit California and Kansas for all union victories and campaigns. Simply calling them "union" victories would obviously rob Californians and Kansans of their glorious US civil war heritage.Zebulin (talk) 06:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No Historical Evidence of Canadian Involvement

I find it highly unlikely that any Canadian forces participated in the Chesapeake Bay campaign. My reasons for this are simple. All units form the order of battle are British in origin and veterans of the Napoleonic Wars(may have had Canadian members but just because Americans volunteered for the RAF during WWII doesn't mean the United States Air Force won the Battle of Britain). No need to transfer Canadian units(which were mainly militia)as it would be logistically difficult, time consuming, idea unpopular with Canadian governments(in Mar. 1814 Upper Canadian government protested that most available men of working age were on duty and thus unable to attend their farms),completely unnecessary as sufficient forces were already available. Regardless of the pride modern Canadians take in the supposed role their ancestors played in the burning of Washington it is doubtful that many if any Canadians would have greeted the idea with any joy. Canadians were mainly subsistence farmers and couldn't leave home for extended periods of time. In the end their is no current historical evidence to support Canadian participation in the Burning of Washington, and until their is factual historical evidence to support Canadian units(raised in Canada and primarily composed of Canadians)participation in the campaign. I think their supposed involvement should be at most noted but not considered factual until supporting evidence comes to light.Danwild6 06:48, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Dan, the creation of the Canadian Constitution was an Act of the British Parliament that took place in 1982. Please re-examine your perspective. There were no such things as 'Canadian Forces' in 1814. Sigma-6 18:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well I don't believe I brought up Canada's constitutional history but nevertheless that is a nice tidbit of history that I was unaware of. Okay in regards to "Canadian Forces" yes and no, I was referring to units(such as fencibles)raised in British North America trained to European(British in particular)military standards.Danwild6 09:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Aye. My point is, you're expending a lot of effort to write out a group of people who didn't even exist from your history. It's not worth the trouble. Canadians (in my experience living here, studying the conflict) conceptualize this war as a part of Canadian military history which predates the formation of the country (in 1867 and 1982). There simply is no distinction of note between 'British' and 'Canadian' in this context. It's an imaginary, post facto invention by various types of nationalists. Sigma-6 (talk) 02:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Other Things

I being a long time resident of Washington D.C. was a bit disappointed that many of the legends surrounding the burning of Washington were left out of this article. A section should be added to this article discussing some of these myths since they are widespread and would help explain their origins and significance. For example, one story that may or may not be true is that the British troops, before burning down the Federal buildings, met in Congress to vote on the issue. Even though this is probably a myth, it is one of many such stories that should be added here. 128.192.56.52 (talk) 14:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Steve D.

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:13, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category disaster

I see that this article is categorised under Category:1814 disasters while the somewhat similar Battle of York has no similar categorisation under Category:1813 disasters. Is this a POV issue? Richard Pinch (talk) 20:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)