Talk:Burlesque

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[edit] Disambiguation

I would suggest two separate articles: one for the literary form; the other addressing burlesque as a stage performance. soverman 02:53 03Feb06 (UTC)

It should add that Burlesque is a live and very well in the UK, where Burlesque nights attract huge audiences - the article is at the moment too US centric..

AndrewShoben 03april2006

[edit] Images

Initial finds:

Include them if you like. pfctdayelise (translate?) 14:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Photo

On 29 June 2006 editor Nino Gonzales removed the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang photos, stating that it "represents a kind of burlesque which is not the one discussed in this article," although the article clearly states that "burlesque has come to be a genre of adult entertainment, focusing on aspects of humor, satire and sexual tantalization." The photo clearly illustrates burlesque, fills a request, and the article benefits from an illustration. Accordingly, I am reinstating the photo. SteveHopson 19:24, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted picture

I have deleted the picture of the women baring her breasts for all to see. It is inappropriate, and would not stand in any decent encyclopedia.

I think the entry is miscategorized. It is misleading to call it a sexual art, especially when the entry details the non-sexual part of burlesque's history. Burlesque, as a precursor to vaudeville, belongs with the other performing arts.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.239.110.134 (talk • contribs) 13:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC). (Moved to bottom of page SteveHopson 15:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC))

I disagree. A tenant of Wikipedia is that it is written for adult audiences. The photo is appropriate to the article as discussed above. Yes, the article discusses all aspects of burlesque's history including strip tease. As such the photo is appropriate and I am restoring it. SteveHopson 15:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not censored. Mdwh 21:41, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I love how you throw that policy backing your immoral decision. --69.67.230.93 03:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neo-Burlesque Edits

I'm a little unlear as to why the "notable Neo-burlesque" performers section keeps getting deleted/altered. Mikkalai, can you explain your reasoning for doing so in more detail?

  • There does seem to be a problem here with editors who regard burlesque as a fixture of the bygone era. It is not; it is wildly popular in many places, and is growing fast. Fixating on performers like Gypsy Rose Lee would be like doing an entry on theatre and writing it as if Shakespeare were the relevant modern standard.
    When time permits, I'll start working on a set of entries on the many vibrant current burlesque performers who keep getting deleted from here. In the interim, please do not treat this as if it were a mummified subject. Alive and well, I do assure. - Corporal Tunnel 00:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added photograph of Sally Rand

I've seen that there has been a number of "photo wars" on this particular site and a lot of non-sourced photographs. So I searched for US government photographs and found the image of Sally Rand from 1934 from the US Library of Congress. It is featured on the website: The Bill: Bob Hope and American Variety (Library Congress) http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bobhope/thebill.html The photo clearly notes that the image comes from the Library Congress.

Signaleer 11:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Nice photo! Colin4C 18:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Striptease and Burlesque

I have deleted the following, cos it is POV, and unreferenced and true:

The striptease quotient of Burlesque is not akin to modern day strippers; one is theatre, the other is not.

Who is to say that striptease shows are not theatre? What about the shows at Las Vegas, for instance, are they not theatre? Also the famous striptease acts at The Windmill Theatre, in London WERE theatre. There is even a Film about striptease occuring in a theatre called Mrs Henderson Presents.

In reference to your deletion, put Burlesque into context. Are you saying that the act of burlesque in the 1800s or even early 1900s was just strippers? I think not, vauldville and burlesque was very much theatre, therefore, I will add the comment back on to the page. Please do not vandalise the site and keep deleting valid information. Thanks --Signaleer 16:20, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

In reference to your threat: "If you keep accusing me of vandalism I will refer you to the admins. Colin4C 16:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)" I say go for it, you are clearly deleting valid information on the Burlesque site. Let me further remind you that the defition on vandalism.

"willful wanton and malicious destruction of the property of others."
WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University

--Signaleer 16:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

If you keep calling me a vandal I will report you to the admins for personal abuse, which is agaist wikipedia guidelines. What you call 'valid information' is both POV and false. The Windmill Theatre, London was and still is a 'theatre' which features strippers. That is just one example, so saying that striptease 'is not theatre' is not just POV - it is is false. I have every right to delete false and POV info in wikipedia articles: that is not 'vandalism' and you should know it. Your personal abuse of me also breaches wikipedia guidelines.
Thanks for the definition of 'vandal': as I have not engaged in wilful and wanton of the property of others, but have rather given a reasoned edit, removing info which is both POV and false, and have discussed by reasons in the Talk page I am not a vandal. That is just a malicious smear by you. Colin4C 16:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for butting in. Burlesque and tableaux girlie shows conformed to the legal situation at the time, and in their particular locale. That meant they had to titillate through suggestion, and (indeed) theatre. The phrase Colin appears to object to is simply perjurative towards modern strippers. Yes, you might be right about the sleazier sort of dive, but Colin does have a point with regard to theatres that continue the Burlesque and Vaudeville traditions, but are now allowed to go much further; examples that spring to mind are the Windmill and Moulin Rouge. I don't think the sentence would be missed, it adds nothing. Looking at the Burlesque link at the bottom of the article (a not particularly helpful external link), their new burlesque shows include strippers, who disrobe to the buff. I think if Signaleer were to rephrase so the sentence is not derogative, that would be acceptable to all. If you follow the link to striptease, you will also see examples claiming to be modern burlesque shows.
I'd also suggest you both cool down a little! Kbthompson 16:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The explanation that the user Colin4C used was a poor explanation for removing the comment. On the history tab of Burlesque the reason for the removal of the sentence was:
"(cur) (last) 12:28, 31 December 2006 Colin4C (Talk | contribs) (Deleted somewhat POV distinction between striptease and burlesque, in my experience most burlesque performers are also 'ordinary strippers' and not ashamed of the fact)"
So you're saying that your personal experience is valid enough to remove what I have said, your point of view and personal bias, is more valid than what the majority think--what I said in the first place. I think not.
If you Kbthompson, would like to edit the sentence so as not to offend the angry and immature Colin4C, by all means, please have at it. --Signaleer 17:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Kbthompson, thanks for editing the site--much appreciated. --Signaleer 17:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Does that do it for everyone? Either party, please feel free to make changes, I hope I captured the essence of what Signaleer was trying to convey, without the derogatory connotation.
I'd also note that derogatory remarks about other editors aren't acceptable, either way. I'd also point out that by posting on Wiki you give express permission for your work to be edited by others. So, an edit war, while extremely undesirable, is not vandalism. Kbthompson 17:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
That's just my POV and the way I see it, didn't say it was Wiki's view of what "they" consider vandalism to be--that was mine ;-) --Signaleer 17:33, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Burlesque pre-dates Vaudeville

Burlesque has been around since the early 1800s. Vaudeville didn't come into existence until teh 1880s yet this page indicates that Burlesque has its origins in Vaudeville. Wasn't the whole point of the Vaudeville movement that it was going to be a "cleaned up" family type of Burlesque? (anon.)

In fact it dates back to the early 18th century: Estcourt's Prunella (1708) is the earliest reference I've seen. It was a musical parody of opera. -- Kleinzach 08:51, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Burlesque dates back to the 1600s, in the sense used above. However, that sense is detailed in Burlesque (genre). This article refers to the burlesque show, which is a different phenomenon and which does, indeed, originate in vaudeville. DionysosProteus 19:10, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Simpsons

Don't see why we can't mention Bart After Dark; it's not a passing "trivia" reference, but the main plot of the whole episode... AnonMoos 17:44, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Famous Burlesquers

I imagine the list will get as messy down the line as all such lists get if unattended, and so I suggest that we work through proposed names here before adding them.

I've removed an incorrect link from the listing of Dirty Martini - it linked to the beverage. I wonder if she belongs in this list, though. She is terrific and well-known, but she has no Wiki page and may not be right for the list. Both she and Julie Atlas Muz should have Wiki pages, and I'd argue for Miss Saturn as well, but the list is probably something that deserves discussion rather than inclusion by fiat. Thoughts? - Corporal Tunnel (talk) 00:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)