Talk:Bundesrat of Germany

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Germany Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale. (If you rated the article please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no

Wiki policy isn't to automatically translate every non-english word into english. It is to use the word used by english-language speakers. If a non-english word is in effect incorporated into english then it isn't translated. For example, Kaiser, Tsar, Taoiseach. Tánaiste, Dáil Éireann for the lower house of the Irish parliament, not House of Representatives, its literal translation.

Also contrary to what was asserted, in bicameral systems, the upper house does not have to approve legislation and does not have to be involved in the selection of a head of government. I have rewritten the relevant section to remove this inaccurate claim. FearÉIREANN 19:53 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Well done. :-) Still, you had a typo when moving the page. It's "Bundesrat", not "Bundestrat"; see my latest on Talk:Politics of Germany. djmutex 19:58 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Hmm...shouldn't we discuss the Bundesrat in Imperial Germany? john 05:37, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I have (effectively) reverted the move by moving this article to Bundesrat of Germany. The argument FearÉIREANN makes above is totally correct. However more importantly Wilfried Derksen didn't try to achieve a consensus before moving even though there was already an objection registered on this page, which isn't on.

This isn't exactly a revert but was the best I could do because I don't have administrator access. But the two titles are virtually identical anyway.

Iota 03:27, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The composition section is confusing for English-speakers not familiar with German politics, could we add a brief definition for what a 'Land' is? I'd add it but I'm really not sure what would be the best translation.

I did some rewording, turning this passage

A law passed in 2002 with a split vote by the Brandenburg delegation was declared void by the German Constitutional Court.

into:

Conflict between delegation members may lead to a split vote, which would invalidate the respective state's entire vote. The delegates (or their leader) are not allowed to reconsider and cast a unison vote. A law passed in 2002 under such circumstances, with the Brandenburg delegation split, caused much controversy and was ultimately declared void by the German Constitutional Court.

I don't know whether this is clearly comprehensible, so I want to explain the situation back then:

In 2002, the Brandenburg votes were decisive in order to let a certain law either pass or to reject it. However, the two coalition partner found themselves on different sides of the fence. Their agreement would have called for abstaining, but the national leadership of both parties pushed the state leaders to move this way or that way: mainly Schröder's SPD pushed the minister-president Stolpe (SPD) to vote in favour of the law, while the CDU was satisfied with abstention, since that would have defeated the bill.

The Bundesrat assembled and the states cast their votes. The President of the house, Berlin mayor Wowereit (also SPD), asked each state for their votes. When he asked Brandenburg, minister-president Stolpe (SPD) answered "Yes!", immediately followed by his deputy Schönbohm (CDU) answering "No!". Wowereit declared that the vote cannot be split and asked a second time. Again Stolpe answered "Yes!", to which Schönbohm added "Mr President, you know my opinion!". Wowereit asked a third time. Again Stolpe answered "Yes!", while Schönbohm remained silent this time. After this, Wowereit declared that Brandenburg had voted in the affirmitive. This caused a row in the assembly, with shouting going back and forth. Then the vote continued, with all other states casting their votes without any difficulty. This way, the bill passed and was refered to the Federal President, who voiced his concerns over the procedure but signed it into law anyway. The CDU opposition, through some the states governed by them, brought the matter to the court, who ruled that the voting procedure was faulty, the Brandenburg vote invalid and hence the law invalid. (Later, a compromise between the parties was reached and a new bill passed without controversy).

If anyone thinks that my edit does not makes this clear, please don't hesitate to improve my wording. Str1977 21:12, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why not represent the states equally?

I think the German Government hasn't done a good job by having population as a factor. The Australian Government will under-represent any new state that joins up, just like what's happening with the territories there. (Because the Senate has to have half of the House of Represetatives' membership, I think that the first six states will happily let newer states feed off them. :-)) Also, Washington DC doesn't have any representation in the Senate either. If you want a federation to work out properly, represent everyone equally in the upper house. Scott Gall 13:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC) PS: I've found out that the Excel calculation for the number of seats given to each Land is =IF([insert reference here]>7000000,6,IF([insert reference here]>6000000,5,IF([insert reference here]>2000000,4,3))). And if New Zealand became a Land, we'd get 4 seats in the Bundesrat.

Population

Bremen 664,000 North Rhine-Westphalia 18,033,000 Both having the same number of vote would not be considered as fair —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.212.87 (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Has there been a change in the seats allotted?

It has been nearly 30 years since I studied German government, but my memory (which could, of course, be faulty) tells me that no Land had more than five votes in the Bundesrat back then—that it was either 3, 4, or 5 votes each. Now this article says some have six. So I'm wondering:

1. Is my memory of the situation in 1978, per Bundesrat voting, incorrect?

2. If my memory is correct,

• is the change to the current status the result of an amendment to the Basic Law, or
• is the change the result of population growth, and some Länder have simply reached the new plateaus allowing them a larger vote,

3. And finally, if this last possibility is true, does the Basic Law allow for a Land to eventually have more than six votes?

I'd love to hear from someone who knows. Unschool (talk) 01:24, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not shure, but I think they've change it, after the reunification —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.240.182 (talk) 22:33, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Harald Ringstorff isn't the President of the Bundesrat. Since Nov 1. 2007 to 31. Oct. 2008 the President of the Bundesrat is Ole von Beust, the fisrt mayor of Hamburg and President of the Senate of Hamburg. Ringstorff is first Vice President of Bundesrat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.166.160.227 (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)