Talk:Bulldog

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[edit] Upgraded the article to "Start" class for the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dogs

The article needs to be expanded to include a more thorough history. -asmadeus 17:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] francis from Oliver and Company

you saw that on disney today too, eh? Gzuckier 23:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation/Bulldog or English Bulldog

Hello, I think Bulldog should be made a disambiguation page and the bulldog page renamed English Bulldog. Each bulldog breed Category:Bulldog breeds and related webpages could be listed on the disambiguation page. There are many types of bulldogs, it seems unfair to give it to just one breed. The English Bulldog is not really just called a bulldog. WritersCramp 17:01, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, I have arguements both for and against this. But at the moment, im leaning towards "yes". After all, the English Mastiff Is more often simply called "Mastiff" but that name is being used by a page describing the Mastiff group in general.
I would vote to rename the Bulldog "English Bulldog" but i would then turn the bage into a bulldog group page over a disambig. Tekana | Talk 17:37, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Hello, glad to see such a quick and definite response. By doing this I do not mean to slight the English Bulldog, I simply believe that stating the are "Bulldog" is really confuses people. Perhaps, an historical perspective of the Bulldog as Tekana suggested would be the most appropriate. I created the Bulldog Categor y, which supports the argument that when you say "Bulldog" is does not necessarily mean English Bulldog. WritersCramp 19:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I have moved the English Bulldog and created a separate Bulldog page. There is certainly room for improvement, I won't be offended if you want to embelish it ! WritersCramp 02:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


Its good you have said that, because in my opinion, it needs a LOT of embellishing!
First of all, remove everything about bullbaiting, that infomation needs to be in the bull baiting article, not the bulldog article! I am aware that they coincide, and a small paragraph or so should dedicated to it. But at the moment, the page is basically just an article on bull baiting!
It needs a lot mor info on the bulldog breeds in themselves. A few things to include might be:
  • What was the origininal bulldog breed?
  • How have the Bulldog breeds changed over the years?
  • How have the breeds evolved?
  • How popular they are as pets/working dogs?
  • Other uses of bulldog breeds (are they used as assistance dogs? detection dogs?)
  • The reputation of the bulltdog breeds?
  • Charicteristics of the bulldogs in general?
  • What makes a bulldog breed a bulldog breed?
  • Is the original purpose of every bully breed to fight bulls, or were they just named so because of physical or mental likeliness to bulldog breeds?
How about a list of Bulldog breeds?
If you need help, my Talk page isnt going anywhere! Also, you could look at the Mastiff, or the Working dog pages to search for ideas! Tekana | Talk 09:00, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Ack, ack, ack, this is me waving my arms and jumping up and down.
  1. One response within one day is not difinitive. There are others of us out there who might have opinions.
  2. Moving a page does NOT entail copying the text and pasting it someplace else; that loses all of the history for that page, leaving it behind in wherever it is that it was copied from. There might be a way now for an admin to undo the copy/paste move and then recreate the new bulldog page, but I'm going to have to research it as I don't remember what the process is. In any event, it's work. If you want to move a page to somewhere where there's currently a redirect, you need to ask to have the redir page removed (and explain why) on the appropriate WP page and then actuallY MOVE the original page.
  3. There was in fact intelligent design in why the pages were named what they were. Back in May '04, dog project had a discussion on this topic, and if I could find that discussion, I'd be so happy I'd be waving only one arm instead of both. The gist was that most kennel clubs and breed clubs call the breed "Bulldog"; UKC calls it the "English Bulldog" and I think they're the only major english-speaking club to do so; one other calls it the "British Bulldog". So "Bulldog" is by far the most-common breed name. Still, at the time we *did* have the discussion about where to put the general discussion of bulldog breeds. I'm going to try asking Sannse whether she can put her finger on that discussion, as half an hour of searching on my part doesn't turn it up. I'm hoping that it didn't somehow get deleted when someone was moving pages around at some time, or overwritten by a newbie, or something like that.
Elf | Talk 22:58, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


Sorry Elf I did not realize that the copy and the move had destinctive functions. I still believe that the Bulldog page should be a default page for all Bulldog breeds. However, if I am out voted that is okay. If there was a discussion on the Bulldog page it should have been pasted here, so others can find it. Cordially WritersCramp 23:39, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I agree about that last bit--it drives me crazy when I can't find stuff like that. I think most of us try to move discussions to the appropriate places, but obviously this one didn't. Sorry I can't refer to that. Elf | Talk 00:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Restarting discussion

Since no one else has weighed in on this issue and I can't find the original discussion from over a year ago, and the more I think about it, the more I agree with the two of you on how the articles should be organized. I really just wanted to make sure that the page histories stayed with the correct text, and I didn't want to muck too much with moving things around, so this Bulldog/Bulldog breeds split was a quick fix. I know that Bulldog Breeds isn't a consistent article title--it shd be either Bulldog breed (which doesn't make much sense) or List of bulldog breeds (which we already know we don't want--we want (and have) an explanation of what a bulldog is, including a list of bulldog breeds.

So what I'm saying is, following tekana's argument about Mastiff/English Mastiff, OK, I can go for the Bulldog/English Bulldog split. And I can do the move/rename correctly this time, if y'all still want this to be done. Elf | Talk 16:06, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bulldog/English Bulldog/Bulldog breeds

OK, here's what I did to try to get most of the page's history back with the text that goes with it:

  • Created a new page, Bulldog breeds, to hold the generic bulldog article written by WritersCramp.
  • Left this page (already reverted by someone else) as the breed page for the specific breed "Bulldog" and folded in the two small changes (as far as I can tell) made while it was at English Bulldog
  • Turned English Bulldog back into a redirect here.

Now--that does not mean that that's how these pages have to stay. When the naming is decided, we can rearrange the pages with proper moves. If anything needs to be deleted to accomplish that, I can do it. Elf | Talk 20:08, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The history section is ridiculuous

I see we repeat here the apocryphal nonsense about this dog being in some way, shape or form descended from bull-baiting dogs, and that the smushy face of modern "bulldogs" somehow served a purpose in bull-baiting.

"Its short and slightly upward facing snout enables it to breathe while keeping hold of the bull, its wrinkles allowed blood to flow away from the dog's eyes and nose, and its thickly-muscled neck and light hind end helped to prevent the thrashing of the bull's head from breaking the dog's spine."

Again, ridiculous.

Its short snout gives it breathing problems even when it is lying down. Its weak jaws mean that latching onto a bull would be impossible. Its odd build means that it is among the most unathletic dogs. This dog does not have blatter problems.

These animals were bred for their comical appearance.

I object to having factoids dressed up in the form of an encylopedia entry.


While this information may be true today, when the breed was used for bull baiting it was not. The breed has changed dramatically over the years. Since bull baiing was banned, enthusiasts of the breed made it more compact with a shorter nose and exaggerated wrinkles. The modern bulldog is nothing like its fighting anscestor. Tekana (O.o) Talk 18:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


I agree, the history section needs to be edited. The "English Bulldog" did not achieve its present form out of the utility of bullbaiting, the dog was bred to be what it is as a service of fancy. Further, I think we need to be truthful here, the "English Bulldog" is a bastardized product of the Bulldog of the pre-Victorian era and the Pug.
You're right the modern bulldog was bred specifically with the Pug. That's why the pre-Victorian bulldog appears to be far more like a modern (bull)terrier than that of a modern bulldog. The histoy section is pathetic for not mentioning this - it stupidly looks like a mediocre English kennel club advertisement or something. So I edited it a bit - but somebody needs to do a more extensive job of it. Loginigol 11:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


  • Actually, I agree with the idea that the history section needs to be re-written (I'm working on that currently) however the bulldog as it is today, started with the dog being bred for bull-baiting characteristics that have been since been accentuated/exaggerated by selective breeding. So regardless of nay-sayers with little to no knowledge of the breed may think, the dog as it stands is a product of breeding for bull-baiting, but has been exaggerated over the years to what it is now which bears little to no resemblance to the dog initially - that doesn't change it's roots however. I disagree with the statement that the section currently looks like an advert and haven't any evidence as yet that Pug was used to help create the modern animal (however I can't rule that out at present) hence I have removed it until it can be cited correctly (as is standard Wiki policy). However, the dog as it stands did indeed come from bull-baiting stock (that much can and will be proven in the history section as and when I finally complete it, work providing) and the section in question will be updated. Drivenapart 11:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
You are the one who haven't provided proof that it was just a product of just bullbaiters and yet you demand proof for Pug? I'm curious which historian is backing you up (besides a possible kennel club that is) Loginigol 12:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
  • As I maintain, you complain about lack of sourcing information yet you put in unsourced information yourself - while I have freely granted that the history section requires a rewrite, inputting further unsourced information by yourself doesn't help the situation. If you'd read what I had said, I'm researching fully and tracing bloodlines of the bulldog right back. I don't work for, and am not affiliated with, any Kennel Club in any capacity whatsoever and am actually using established methods to trace the history correctly. As for what historian, there will be none however this won't be original research rather the bringing together of already available information. Why are you so convinced of a conspiracy? Drivenapart 08:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I sourced my contribution. So you are resorting to lies and deciet when you start claiming something about "lack of sourcing". Do you own Wikipedia? If you don't then you have no right to do what you are doing: deleting sourced information and lying about it. You are acting like as if this is your website or something. This is Wikipedia. You're supposed to challenge the facts - not me. The record shows that the history-section has been looking rubbish for too long. The rest of us have no obligation to wait until you bother yourself to sort out the mess, To my knowledge you are not the owner of Wikipedia. Loginigol 14:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Whether or not sourced, the information you have put in is equally as debatable as the information there which is why I have removed it (the opening line which says that one sections believes one thing and another believes another is proof of this). So sourced or otherwise, your information is no better than the information that's there already. No, I don't own Wiki, but for that matter neither do you as a result information which is verifiable dubious at best (as is the information you have added, will be removed until correct information can be put in it's place. I have challenged the facts, which is why I have deleted that information you have put in (the sentence says that there is debate over the issue, which means that saying it came from a Pug is not been proved so regardless of referencing it doesn't make any more correct than the information there). And actually we all have a duty to challenge the facts, which is why we end up with a more accurate section. Just out of curiousity what exactly have Ilied about? I have removed information that, althought referenced, says that there is debate over whether it came from a Mastiff or a Pug...there's no lie there. I certainly haven't claimed you lacked sources, I have debated the quality of the information you have put in due to it being questionable and stipulated as being so in the article to which you referenced. If you insist on putting in information then please back it up with unquestionable evidence - we are all together trying to write a better article not crate a war because you're placing information in an article, the author of which states that the facts aren't certain. As a result, I have perfect right to remove said information. If you have a problem with my doing this, I suggest that either we go to a consensus of readers of the article or take it to mediation. Your attitude across articles however suggests that you prefer a more aggressive tack. Drivenapart 14:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merge

The old english,original and wilkinsons bulldog pages should be merged.

No Merge - these are separate breeds SirIsaacBrock 03:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)


I don't know about merging the "English Bulldog" page with the other ones, considering it is a different breed and its ancestry has already been sufficiently covered; however, I like the idea of merging the Original English Bulldog page with the Wilkinson and American Bulldog pages. The only problem is that such an article would become rather overwhelming.

[edit] The Legendary Bulldog

Anyone acquire this book yet ?? ISBN 1595940324

SirIsaacBrock 10:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mascots

I think that the current mascot section of this article is getting a bit out of control. Anyone have any objection to removing the list and creating a List of Bulldog mascots article instead? - Trysha (talk) 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, i made the above list, the list here was getting nuts - please add new mascots over there. - Trysha (talk) 17:40, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
I am of the opinion that we should do the same for Bulldogs in popular culture. I highly doubt that anyone who's coming to read the encyclopedic entry on Bulldogs is looking specifically for this ever growing loosely referenced list -asmadeus 02:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
No one chimed in. I moved the content to List of Bulldogs in popular culture. -asmadeus 17:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SPEEDY DELETION (Copyright issues)

Original page: http://www.heavensentbulldogrescue.com/bulldoginfo.html
Listed for Speedy Deletion due to blatant word for work copyright infringement

I tried re-writing the article on my own at first, to remove the infringing material but keep as much of the article as I could. But almost the entire article is taken word for word from the other site. I know there are alot of bulldog fans out there though, so hopefully it can be re-written from scratch quickly. 64.230.4.4 00:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

  • I've removed in entirety the infringing material and as such have removed the Speedy Delete tag. Apologies to editors of the WP:DOGS but prompt action was required. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹SpeakSign 03:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reworking temperment section

I've tried the best I can to arrange it, formalize the tone a bit and eliminate extraneous or redundant information. Any other additions or changes would be helpful. Ri3mannZeta 16:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ri3mannZeta (talk • contribs) 16:52, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

I've made some additional edits to this section in an effort to clean it up and add structure/decrease its conversational style 65.241.15.131 20:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding What-A-Bully-Bulldogs.com to the bulldog page

I have been trying to add a link to this page for three days. The link is what - a - bully - bulldogs .com. This website is not just a breeders website. The is a lot of information about the breeding standard and about how to care for bulldogs. The woman who owns What-A-Bully Bulldogs is NOT a commercial breeder. She has maybe one litter a year. She will also give advise to ANYONE who has a bulldog. All they have to do is call or email her. She will help even if the owner of the bulldog did not buy it from her. She will help people find their local Bulldog Club of America. Or if they do not what to buy a dog from her and have it shipped to them, she will help them find a breeder in their area. I have heard a lot of wonderful things about this woman from so many people. Please do not delete this link again.

  • That's nice, but it's not what the 'general information' section is for. It's reserved for websites which offer general Bulldog information ONLY, and not for breeder websites which also happen to have a page or two of breed info stuck on them. Also, Wikipedia has nothing to do with a 'nice breeder' who doesn't mind if people phone or email her. If she creates a web page which is solely devoted to general information on Bulldogs, come back and add it. Frogdogz 09:32, 06 June 2007
  • removed hyperlink from this talk thread. Frogdogz 07:55, 13 June 2007

[edit] Why did Winston get removed?

Under the famous bulldogs section, Winston, the bulldog in "The Longest Day" on Sword beach was removed. Why? Just because someone doesn't catch the reference doesn't give them license to remove it. He was quite the character in the movie and deserves a spot on famous bulldogs list.

Andykass 05:18, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, after I posted this, it showed up again. I suppose it was either my mistake or my computer not refreshing after several hours. Many apologies! If anyone can confirm that it was Sword beach that would be great. Thanks!

Andykass 05:20, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adam Sandler's dogs

adam sandler's dogs meatball and matzoball were both bulldogs. there are pictures of them on his website. it doesn't say anything about them on his wiki though. Whitey138 19:15, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hip Dysplasia Question

I think there should be some disambiguation regarding the hip dysplasia issue. In the UK there is very little hip dysplasia in the breed, however by contrast there are quite a few dogs which have interstitial cysts, which although not as serious can cause the dog discomfort. 26/06/07.

[edit] USMC Mascot changed for accuracy

The USMC mascot bulldog is erroneously referred to in this article by the name of "Chester". Being named after Lt Col. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller (The "Chesty" nickname referred to Col. Puller's Physique, not his actual name), I have changed it to the proper "Chesty".66.56.237.64 22:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] help

this was very helpful for my essay thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Avgirl001 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

OMG DON'T YOU KNOW YOU CANT USE WIKIPEDIA FOR SCHOOL??!?!! tildetildetildetilde —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.33.76.136 (talk) 10:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)