Talk:Bulgarians in Albania

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Contents

[edit] Neutrality

The references are not neutral but they are Bulgarian so it is not relevant. Officially in Albania there are no Bulgarians and this article has too much BG propaganda.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 21:58, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Albania recognises only one slavic population- and they are Macedonians. Read Albanian official sources. --Raso mk (talk) 22:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Go, look at Macedonians in Albania, tidy it up, and then come with such comments here. --Laveol T 22:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
"More than 800 Albanian citizens of Bulgarian descent have acquired Bulgarian passports". Wow... From now on we will not going to talk about the Bulgarians in the USA because they have American passports and they are now Americans and do not have any kind of relationship with Bulgaria or Bulgarian culture --Raso mk (talk) 22:07, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
They have go BG passports on account of their Bulgarian origin. Basic logic. Enough with the forum already - have you got any constructive remarks to this or the other relevant article? --Laveol T 22:11, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Please read some relevant documents such as reports of the EU and reports of the USA but not some imaginative BG web sites. You are here just to spread your propaganda, go in forums and do such things there not here.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 22:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Everything is properly sourced. If you have any valid objections state them - if not stop using the talkpage as a forum. And stop playing with the indents - the talkpage should be readable. --Laveol T 22:21, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
ha ha ha, you are good in spreading away propaganda. Are you studying a faculty for spreading away a national stupid propaganda? --MacedonianBoy (talk) 22:28, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
For the last time - Stop offending me and using this talkpage as a forum. If you don't do this, I'll inform the administrators. I'm not willing to play with you. --Laveol T 22:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
wow --MacedonianBoy (talk) 22:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Read WP:TALK and cut it out. --Laveol T 22:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Laveol pls stop offending and atacking others. No one said something offending here (except yours atacks).--Raso mk (talk) 22:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
The comment about the faculty of stupid national propaganda by MacedonianBoy was enough. Now focus on the article or use my talkpage. --Laveol T 22:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually what is wrong with macedonians in albania, there is only 2 sentences with irrendentist claims near the middle of the page. You have featured it prominently in the title. Many inhabitants of the Gora region are known as Torbeshi, whose number has been estimated at c. 40,000 - 120,000.[4] External estimates on the population of ethnic Macedonians in Albania include 10,000,[5] whereas ethnic Macedonian sources have claimed that there are 120,000 - 350,000 ethnic Macedonians in Albania [6][7] Also is it really relevent statements by ex politicians who have little or no understanding of either macedonian or bulgarian. I have been to pustec myself, there is no bulgarian school. It is really POV. Oh, and the CIA fact book clams that 2.5% of bulgaria is macedonian, would you accept that on the macedonians in bulgaria page?[1][2][3], If you are willing to put up about the bulgarians in albania, are you willing to put up about the macedonians in bulgaria? P m kocovski (talk) 23:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

It's not a question of what I like or I don't. It's a question of what is or was. You already created an entire POV and mostly OR article about Macedonians in Albania (it should be Ethnic btw) and you have remarks about this one?!--Laveol T 14:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Actually it shouldnt be ethnic as there is no other population to distinguish the macedonians from, unlike in greece or bulgaria where some people claim a regional macedonian identity, in albania people do not claim this, as in the deep south of serbia. Also what is so POV about it? it only claims that ~5,000 people are macedonians, unlike the bulgarians page where an estimate of 50,000 is given. Well macedonians estimate there is 100,000 macedonians in albania, should this be written down as well??? Also why is it relevant what some chauvinistic albanian politician has to say?, i have been to pustec there is no bulgarian school there! And please stop quoting the pro-bulgarian figures and bulgarian government becuase that is hardly neutral P m kocovski (talk) 06:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wording

During the second Balkan Conference in 1932 the Bulgarian and Albanian delegations signed a Protocol about recognition of ethnic Bulgarian minority in Albania.[4] After the Second World War, the creation of People's Republic of Macedonia and the policy of the new Communist states about the founding of Balkan Federative Republic changed the situation and an ethnic Macedonian minority[5][6] was officially recognized. Schools and radio stations in Macedonian were founded in the area.[5].

Do the sources actually say that a Bulgarian minority was recognised as a Macedonian minority? If not, it is just some original research. BalkanFever 08:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Ummm, the text doesn't state that. It says Albania recognised a Bulgarian minority and that after the founding of People's Republic of Macedonia it recognised an ethnic Macedonian minority. It does not say that Bulgarians were recognized as ethnic Macedonians, but that an ethnic Macedonian minority was recognized (which is the case).--Laveol T 12:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
TOO MANY BLOGS AS REFERENCES ON THIS PAGE. IT IS NOT ACCEPTED: AND MANY REFERENCES ARE INCORRECT.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 22:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Stop shouting, please. Which are the problem sources? --Laveol T 22:39, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
The 7th, 8th and the first one look like and they are blogs.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 08:17, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Bulgarians in Albania are Bulgarians living in nowadays Albania and most particularly in Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. What kind of sentence is this? Bulgarians in Albania are Bulgarians.....--MacedonianBoy (talk) 08:21, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Nope, they're not blogs. Do you know what a Blog is? --Laveol T 09:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes I know, but they are typical BG blogs, where the Bulgarian propaganda is spread away.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Bulgarians in Albania are ethnic Bulgarians living in nowadays Albania and most particularly in Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo. Ethnic, how this come? Ethnic can be only the neighboring nations, not a nation that is separated from Albania with another country.--MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
You are kidding. Ethnic is ethnic. Just like ethnic Macedonians. Stop making up things. --Laveol T 10:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Sory but i steel dont see any sources????We shoud discuss about deleteation of this article,becous it has no sence!!!There is no Bulgarian minorety in Albania,and it is stated by Albanian govermant and Albanian Helssingi organisation!!!The only Bolgarian thing is Bolagrian passports given in Bulgarian propaganda,of denideing Macedonian ethnicety!!DO YOU NEED Sorces of this state,i meen if is valid Bulgarian newspaper and Bulgarian foregin ministery,i can find at least 10 sorces like that,confirming my writteing!Makedonij (talk) 16:36, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Try in English next time, seriously. I can't figure out most of the stuff you write. --Laveol T 17:12, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
There is no Bulgarians in Albania and this article shoud be deleted,becouse it is not an article,it is just what you call propaganda,i all ready give you infos Here.the only Bulgarian thing in Albania are Bulgarian passports!And then you will say in few years we miss a lot of Bulgarians!!!

[edit] Delete

  • This article shoud be removed becouse it is only spreading false informations,and spreads Bulgarian idea of San Stefano Bulgaria.Makedonij (talk) 08:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge?

Could a solution to the dispute be a merger of the Bulgarians in Albania and Macedonians in Albania into a Slavic minority in Albania article? --Soman (talk) 21:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

No Macedonians are recognised minority and Bulgarians are not,and state of Albania is that there are no Bulgarians in Albania,you can say what you think

here--Makedonij (talk) 21:51, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, the two articles used to be one, but then some users insisted on having two POV forks of one and the same thing. I am for. --Laveol T 22:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] misleading statements

  • CIA Factbook The CIA World Factbook supports these claims pointing to the 1989 census- Actually here are the results of the 1989 census[1], A combined number of 782 persons were of Romanian, Bulgarian and Czechoslovakian nationality.
  • 50,000 Bulgarians- State Agency for Bulgarians Abroad states that about 40,000 to 50,000 persons with Bulgarian origin are living in Albania that may be very well but the agency also claims that there are 300,000 bulgarians in america and 1,300,000 in macedonia, obviously unreliable and should not feature in the Second Sentence.
  • Politicians statements- “I wouldn’t like to offend anyone who would call himself a Macedonian, but in the territory near Lake Prespa there is a school instructing in Bulgarian”.- Alexander Meksi Politicians statements are really uneccesary in such a politically tense issue, even when the statement is coming from an anti-macedonian figure. Bulgarians claim Macedonians dont exist, so do Greeks. Greeks claim the macedonian language is a bulgarian dialect. Hardly objective information.

The Article focuses on the macedonians in albania as much as it focuses on the bulgarians. It seems like an attempt at proving that these people exist and that they number in the tens of thousands. This is not encylpedic and should be revised. PMK1 (talk) 09:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

  • It says what it says - the CIA factbook is used in the article Ethnic Macedonians in Bulgaria in the same way - let me remind you you were the one that put it there.
  • No, the Agency doesn't say anything about 1,3 mill Bulgarians in RoM - stop making up things.
  • Why are they irrelevant? Categorizing the Slavic-speaking inhabitants of Albania as ethnic Macedonians is a political decision so why should the opinion of politicians that do not agree be excluded? --Laveol T 12:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
So what is classifying people as Macedonians also a political decsision? No the Bulgarian government does, which runs the agency. Please accept others POV. And only 782 people in total claime either bulgarian, romanian and czechoslovakian nationality in an official census! this does belong in the first paragrapgh. PMK1 (talk) 06:03, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removing website

does anyone object if i were to remove the link to the website?? PMK1 (talk) 00:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes - what's the problem with it now? Let me guess - you don't like it. --Laveol T 11:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
no i dont have a problem with it. But it is only a page under constuction? It doesnt even give information or anything. PMK1 (talk) 05:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
It has tons of info on the subject in English. --Laveol T 12:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)