Talk:Buffalo Soldier

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Buffalo Soldier article.
Article policies

Contents

[edit] Negroes not "African Americans"

The soldiers were Negroes, not "African Americans."♦OldBoerParty 23:44, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "You People"

Wait, I thought it was Ross Perot who uttered that unfortunate phrase, not Colin Powell. - M.Neko

[edit] Slaves or not?

the article doesn't specify, were the original/early "buffalo soldiers" slaves? Were they forced to partake in wars? --Ballchef 08:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Just FYI - many were former slaves, and most of the original group of enlistees were former Union soldiers in USCT (United States Colored Troops) units who fought during the Civil War. They were not forced to enlist, although once enlisted every soldier has an obligation to fight in wars at the direction of their commanders. This article really needs to be cleaned up and fleshed out. I've started the process, but there's a lot more needed.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.125.149.243 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 27 February 2006.

[edit] Does it really add value

To introduce this subject with "The Spanish called them 'Smoked Yankees'?"

I just don't see what value this statement adds to the article, especially in the opening paragraphs?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.125.149.243 (talk • contribs) 14:06, 27 February 2006.

What did the French call them? How about the Portugese? Canadians? South Africans? Swedes? Irish? This statement in the opening section adds zero value as it stands. If you really want to keep this sentence, how about moving it to it's own section and expanding that section by including slang terms from around the world?

[edit] Gen Powell

As I recall, according to his biography, Gen Powell not only unveiled the Buffalo Soldiers statue, he spearheaded the project to create the monument. Someone with a copy of his book might want to add that and source it. SqlPac 22:45, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Origin of "Buffalo Soldiers"

It may be nice for us to think that Indians referred to these men as "Buffalo Soldiers" out of admiration and respect, but this is generally disputed by Native Americans themselves.


I agree with the statement given by the anonomous user above me, who/what tribe originated this alias to the comparison of Afro-American infantry soldiers, and is there belief that the unknown Native American group significantly described them as Buffalo Soldiers for other bias reasons, as if describing them racially to their comrades? if so, was this a racial slur? --Andres Flores 00:01, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] While in Britain

I seem to remember a story that, while stationed in England (near Bristol, I think) some black US servicemen were being given an unfairly rough time by (white) MPs. This annoyed the locals sufficiently for them to come to their rescue and see off the MPs. Anyone have a confirmation for this? Also, there's no mention of black airmen in the USAAF. Folks at 137 21:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

See also: Tuskegee Airmen ... OTOH, they were stationed in the Med theatre (North Africa and Italy) and were never stationed in England. —141.156.240.102 (talk|contribs) 22:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the link: I've added it to the article. Your reply confuses me: are you saying that no black American unit was stationed in the UK or just that the "Tuskegees" weren't? Folks at 137 15:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

There was already a link in the article (in the See also: section). There were black American units stationed in every theater during WW-II, serving mostly as cooks, engineers, and other support personnel (somebody had to dig the latrines, service the KP equipment, fix broken vehicles, etc.), but those units all had white officers, with the exception of the 92nd Division (colored). I meant that the 332d Fighter Group was never stationed in the UK. --141.156.240.102 19:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I recently read a book on African-Americans in the military and do remember reading of incidents in which English civilians came to the aid of black soldiers being unfairly accosted by white MPs. Similarly, there was another incident in which Nisei (Japanese-American) soldiers came to the rescue of some black soldiers in Italy. I'm not sure how to fit these particular incidents into the article, though. --Habap 16:37, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New pictures added

User Signaleer (talk · contribs) has added a bunch of pictures to the page ... Too Many, IMHO. Does this article really need two photos of them from the Spanish American War, especially so far apart? And what's up with the saddle & holster as the Very First image? —72.75.93.131 (talk · contribs) 17:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that the pictures do add a lot to the article. Perhaps two S-A war pictures is a bit of overkill, but I think the article is far better off with the addition of the images. --Habap 16:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

I got this message on my talk page:

In reference to the Buffalo Soldier article, the user Beetstra has a bot called Shadowbot which is automatically deleting external links which I am trying to provide on the site for additional credible sources of information. The user Beetstra refuses to add the members.aol link The Buffalo Soldier Story which is featured on the official Fort Leavenworth Buffalo Soldier Monument website: http://garrison.leavenworth.army.mil/sites/about/Buffalo.asp therefore it should be credible to add on the Wiki site since the logic that the U.S. Army has approved it for their external link it should be on the Wiki site as well. In addition this user has tried to add a linkfarm on the site, where all of the articles are valid and credible sources of information in reference to the article. --Signaleer 18:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I've protected the article from editing under the terms of the protection policy due to rapid-fire edit warring. Put simply, you're both lucky I didn't block you.

A fundamental part of the design of Wikipedia was talk pages, and both of you should use this to discuss your reasons for including/excluding the content under dispute. This is listed as the "first step" in resolving disputes on Wikipedia, see this.

One other clarification: Beetstra (talk · contribs) does not have a bot called Shadowbot (talk · contribs). Please see User:Shadowbot for more details.

Talk, don't revert, or you'll very quickly end up blocked. See Wikipedia:Negotiation and Wikipedia:Edit war. Daniel Bryant 00:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

In response to Daniel.Bryant's actions, first of all, I do not appreciate your threats in reference to being blocked considering the fact that article had not been fully protected.
I did explain my reasoning for adding the external link but I received clarification from another administrator on the reasoning why the members.aol site was blocked due to the Wiki policy. --Signaleer 13:05, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reformatted References

Verified web references and reformatted references. No major content changes, just minor reformatting. SqlPac 02:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template

I created a template that can be fixed up, added to and used often. See Template:Buffalo Soldiers. – Freechild (BoomCha) 17:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Challenge: Date of Death of "Last Buffalo" Soldier

Per the event noted at the link below, I request a change in the notation in this article about the date of death of the final remaing Buffalo Soldier.

http://www.patriotguard.org/ALLForums/tabid/61/forumid/11/postid/580515/view/topic/Default.aspx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.97.45.186 (talk • contribs) 10:15, 15 July 2007

[edit] Comment from main article

Statement by 75.185.61.44 moved here by CosmicPenguin (Talk) 06:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC):

92nd infantry division WWII - this calls into question the statement about there no longer being anyone alive who served in units under this distinction.someone please feel free to delete my edit and put it in properly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.61.44 (talk • contribs) 05:27, 26 January 2008
I'm inclined to agree, but I don't know of any reliable sources that would confirm it, so I'll leave it to more knowledgeable editors. CosmicPenguin (Talk) 06:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
There was consensus on the discussion page for {{Buffalo Soldiers}} that the distinction applies to post-Civil War through Spanish-American War veterans, not World War I and World War II era, so the 92nd was excluded ... Mark Matthews is recognized as having been the last of the Buffalo Soldiers ... Happy Editing! —72.75.72.63 (talk · contribs) 18:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] buffalo soldier

It was my understanding that the name did come from indians, but it was because the soldiers were ordered to kill off as many buffalo as possible to starve the indians and kill those they couldn't starve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.118.185.202 (talk) 13:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lincoln Admits Who Won The Civil War

On March 26, 1863, Lincoln wrote Johnson, "The colored population is the great available and yet unavailed of force for saving the Union."

To J.C. Conkling, August 26, 1863 he said "The emancipation policy and the use of the colored troops constitute the heaviest blow yet dealt to rebellion and that at least one of these important successes could not have been achieved when it was but for the aid of the colored troops."

To John T. Mills August 1864, "The slightest knowledge of arithmetic will prove to any man that the rebel armies cannot be destroyed by Democratic strategy. It would sacrifice all the white men of the North to do it. There are now in the service of the United States nearly 150,000 colored men, most of them under arms, defending and acquiring Union territory. The Democratic strategy demands that these forces be disbanded and that the masters be conciliated by restoring them to slavery...Abandon all posts now garrisoned by black men, take the 150,000 men from our side and put them in the battlefield or cornfield against us and we would be compelled to abandon the war in three weeks."

To Chas. D. Robinson, August 17, 1864 "Drive back to the support of the rebellion the physical force which the colored people now give and promise us and neither the present nor any coming administration can save the Union....The party who elect a President on a War and Slavery Restoration would of necessity, lose the colored force; and that force being lost, would be as powerless to save the Union as to do any other impossible thing."

"It is not a question of sentiment or taste but one of physical force which may be measured and estimated as horse-power and steampower are measured and estimated." To J. M. Schermerhorn, Sept. 12, 1864, he adds emphatically as regards this Negro balance of power, "Keep it, and you can save the Union. Throw it away, and the Union goes with it." Reference: Speeches, Letters, and State Papers, Nicolay & Hay, 1922".

It's clear that without the black troops saving the union, that the United States would not exist as we know it today. Black soldiers won their own freedom with their own blood. They have been repaid through an attempt to write them out of history. I don't expect grammar school history books to be rewritten even with the proof in Lincoln's own hand. The myth of the Union fighting for and securing the end of slavery is much preferred over the truth. Tom 04/09/08

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.125.65 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 9 April 2008