Talk:Buffalo Bill

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[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

Needs citations, but the detail is worthy of a B-rating. May not really need an categorized infobox. Buffalo Bill is one of a kind.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 05:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

This article reads like a not-particularly-organized collection of disparate stand-alone works, repeating itself and introducing concepts already introduced. See, for example, the treatment(s) of Cody, Wyoming, which bounce all around.

[edit] Discussion

According to his biography (http://www.ibiblio.org/gutenberg/1/0/0/3/10030/10030-8.txt) He was born 1845 not 1846 -- --Harno 23:51, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC). check

[edit] wtf?

My great-great-great-great uncle Buffalo Bill didn't claim to have scalped a Cheyenne warrior,he Shot and Scalped the Cheyenne Chief Yellow Hair (mistaken as Yellow Hand)in a duel, but when i changed on his page it reverted as vandalism. WTF? Read any book on him people!

[edit] yeah right.

you are wrong zoe, he was born in 1846 not 1845. look at another dictionary. a real book, and not a website, ok?

Buffalo Bill's only known biography that he wrote does say that he was born in 1845. Who are you going to believe, a text book that was so wrong that it could have said It wasn't Custer's fault for his death, or the man himself who this page is about? Bcody 13:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sources section

What's that 8 supposed to be? --71.112.94.131 00:44, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ???=

removed from article "Bizarrely, evidence suggests that Buffalo Bill was the official guest at the opening of a shooting club in Urmston in the United Kingdom. The club has since been demolished to make way for housing." whats bizzare about it...its seems like a non-sequitor

[edit] Wild Bill couldn't have performed in the Wild West

The dates don't work. Buffalo Bill launched his Wild West in 1883, according to this article, and Wild Bill was shot dead in 1876.

He was never in the Wild West Show. Wild Bill did perform in plays with Buffalo Bill. Wild Bill was known to play pranks on the actors, and after one night Buffalo Bill told him that he had to stop or he would be kicked out. Wild Bill left in the middle of the show. A few days later Buffalo Bill found Wild Bill in a bar and Wild Bill apologized. Wild Bill then went out west where he was shot in 1876. Bcody 13:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Relitave

This dude's related to me! Seriously. He's dead, I know. But he was my relitave. I swear. —The Thing (Talk) (Stuff I did) 15:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 7th Kansas Cavalry Regiment

I have a very interesting newspaper article sitting here withme. I learned a few weeks ago that Buffalo Bill served along side my great-great-grandfather in the 7th Kansas Cavalry Regiment and I have a very very old newspaper article from when he visited my great-great-grandfather... Any suggestions on how to / if to add it. I also have some other information I might add.--Azslande 08:17, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quite Interesting...

I have no source available, but on a British programme QI, it announced evidence that actually, Buffalo Bill slayed bison, not buffalo, due to the obvious problem that there were no buffalo in North America at the time! Unfortunately, nobody could tell the difference. This is all well and good, but without a source, I ought not put it on the page, unless it were in a rumoured section. Unless anybody else can find out the same thing? Alex Holowczak 18:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

  • It's well known that the American bison was erroneously called the "buffalo" in America. Wahkeenah 21:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
  • That's okay then! Alex Holowczak 18:26, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

p

[edit] "Buffalo Bill" Eve - Interesting if true

The long digression at the end of the article about William Eve, another "Buffalo Bill," belongs in its own article, not in the article on Buffalo Bill Cody. I would move it myself, but there are no sources cited, so I don't know if it is factual or not. Anyone know about Buffalo Bill Eve? Plazak 13:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced Story

Moved from the main article - might qualify if it is cleaned up and sourced - CosmicPenguin (Talk) 23:45, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

At another time a man came to the Cody home with a gun and knife and demanded that Mrs. Cody fix him dinner. As he was waiting he told the poor woman that he had come to kill that "damn abolitionist husband of yours" and where was he? Mrs. Cody said he was not at home and she was not likely to see him soon. Waiting for his meal he sat and shapen a knife while drinking whiskey. Mary Cody took William and his sister Julia aside. Isaac Cody was up stairs sick in bed. She told the two children William 8 years old and his sister Julia about 10 years old to get a gun and an ax. If the man started up the stairs William was to kill him with the gun and if he missed Julia was to get him with the ax. The two young children waited on the stair. The Man at his dinner and after falling asleep he woke and left, stealing the Cody's horses as he went.

[edit] Removed from main article

It was a myth that Sitting Bull ever came to England. Buffalo Bill in Liverpool. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CosmicPenguin (talk • contribs) 21:02, 4 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Buffalo/Bison Hunting

There seems to be no mention of his hunting here. I thought that the huge number of bovines he slew was what he was best known for. Epeeist smudge 08:29, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I think that too. He slayed huge numbers of buffalo, and yet there is no mention of this here. Shouldn't we look at both the positive and negative side of this man? 81.151.74.90 (talk) 22:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reference to living relatives

Removed "Currently his descendants Sean Soltys and Benjamin White attend Southington High School in Southington, CT", an utterly unimportant detail, from the Legacy section. Sean Lindsay (talk) 23:51, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I was goingto remove the text as it is vanity of NN. I see where the text is removed in the wiki format, but despite my refreshes it still shows on my screen. 71.66.254.83 (talk) 02:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disney Village Wild West Show

I removed the paragraph about the Wild West Show at Disney Village. While it shares elements with Buffalo Bill's show, it seems to me to be a re-creation of a western show, which isn't that unique. The same exact text was added to the Disney Village page, and I think it works better there, anyway. The section was added by User:Earlycreek which is also the name on many of the posts on the URL posted in the article, so there may be a tad bit of promotion and WP:COI. I can be convinced that something should be added back into the article in a condensed form if somebody would like to try. CosmicPenguin (Talk) 22:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Response from Earlycreek:

I understand your position regarding the paragraph I added to the Buffalo Bill page. I take your point that the wording could be construed to have promotional elements and COI, especially considering I do have connections with the show in question (more below) but I think inclusion of all or most of the text may be justifiable regardless. Please allow me to explain my thinking:

My original intent was to add information about the show to a Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show or Wild West Show page, where it might have been more appropriate, but those links all point directly to Buffalo Bill so I didn't have that option.

I suggest that two separate pages may be more appropriate to correctly document the two subjects: one for Buffalo Bill and another for Wild West Shows. My argument is that Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show was the precursor to many other Wild West Shows and arguably was largely responsible for creating the romantic myth of the American Cowboy that went on to become the basis not just for Western Cinema but for the underlying cultural movement that defined and in many ways still defines The American Male. The marketing genius of Ned Buntline and W.F. Cody and the impact of their efforts should not be underestimated. I feel that in emphasizing the impact of Buffalo Bill as opposed to other notable people of his era (Wild Bill, Custer, Doc Holiday, Jesse James, etc.) it's important to emphasize the enduring impact of his Wild West Show. Noting the existence and enduring success of Disney’s reincarnation is important in providing that emphasis. To not mention Disney’s reincarnation would be to discredit the enduring impact of Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show legacy.

Although I understand your assumptions, I argue that Disney’s reincarnation is not just another Wild West Show. Firstly, Disney purchased rights to exploit the name and script of the original "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show”. Apparently the branding genius of W.F. Cody and Ned Buntline was not lost on Michael Eisner, who rightly recognized that money spent on securing the original name and script was money well spent. Disney’s production appropriately reflects the grandeur and authenticity of the original: it is permanently housed in a building designed by famed architect Frank Gehry, was directed by Broadway Director Robert Carson, has a musical score written by Oscar-winning composer Alan Menkin, and so on. To my knowledge, no other existing Wild West Show remotely compares.

And lest the Disney brand be misleading, a stark difference separates the polished, tassle-hanging, line-dancer-type performers which you might assume would define a Disney treatment of Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, and the rough, raw, reality of our show. Our cast includes authentic Rodeo Cowboys, Indians, horses, bison, and long-horn cattle imported from Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, Alberta Canada, Mexico, and so on, off ranches and Indian Reservations. Some of the original Crow Indians in our show didn't even speak English. I, for example, was born in Sheridan, Wyoming, raised on a ranch, and spent my teenage summers packing mules and guiding hunters and fishing expeditions in the most remote part of the lower 48 states, in the Bridger-Teton Wilderness west of Cody (not completely unlike W.F. Cody). If one considers that “Buffalo Bill” the Ned Buntline creation was a mythical character based on the real experiences of a real personage of the West, one could argue that he still exists to an extent (I portray Buffalo Bill in Disney’s production). Others are at least as authentic as me. Our Sitting Bull is a Crow Indian who was born about 10 miles from where Custer was killed. Another cowboy spent last summer and fall in the same Wilderness area I was in as a teen. Some of our Native Americans perform traditional songs and sacred ceremonies backstage, beyond the public eye, as a part of their culture to mourn deaths and to celebrate certain events. These types of backgrounds, while not universal, are fairly typical among our cast.

While your comments regarding promotion and COI may initially appear justified, my motive for submitting the paragraph in question was founded not in my connection to the Disney production but in my personal connection to the lifestyle, history, and landscape of Northern Wyoming, where much of the story of Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show unfolded and where I was born and raised. I feel explaining the enduring impact of Buffalo Bill’s legacy by mentioning Disney’s production is important in defining the man and his influence on our world’s culture.

Perhaps another editor’s wording would seem less promotional but still convey the importance behind the fact that Buffalo Bill and his show still exist in an incarnation that very much evokes the spirit, energy, and authenticity of the original. Earlycreek (talk) 01:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I doubt anybody questions the attention to detail and quality that Disney would put into any of its shows; no doubt that it is a fine show. I too grew up in northern Wyoming, and I know very well the thirst that visitors have for the west that they think exists, and so are suckers for staged shootouts, Native American dances, and wild west shows. Certainly anybody can run a stagecoach around an arena and call it a show. We certainly don't want the Buffalo Bill / Wild West article to end up being a directory of these. All that said, you said something very important: Firstly, Disney purchased rights to exploit the name and script of the original "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show”. That is the key - that make this not just a Wild West show, but the Wild West Show which makes it immediately notable. I will need your help finding a reliable source giving us the year and details when Disney purchased the rights (certainly it had to have been reported in a trade rag), and then we can add something like this:

In <YEAR>, Disney purchased the rights to the name and script of the original "Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show" and created a re-enactment which plays at Disney Village in Disneyland Resort Paris. The show attempts to faithfully recreate an authentic experience, including many of the famous elements of the original show such as the Pony Express, Indian Attack, and Stagecoach Robbery.

I think that is a very reasonable thing for the article. And I also agree with you that at some point, separating Buffalo Bill and the Wild West Show might be a good idea, assuming we can accumulate enough information about the wild west show to keep it from being a permanent stub. Thanks for discussing this - and good luck with your show. CosmicPenguin (Talk) 15:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with your comments. On my end, I will try to find some Disney contacts to help verify my assertion regarding the rights to the show. I think a substantial article could be written regarding the Wild West Show based on it's relationship to modern-day Rodeos and the romantic myth of the Cowboys, Indians, and the American West that, as you mention, drives much of the tourism industry in the West. 82.249.36.237 (talk) 00:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)