Talk:Buenos Aires

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Contents

[edit] why is this relevant? Definetely not!

""Buenos Aires had a sizable number of Afro-Argentines until the mid-19th century; the black population was centered in the neighborhoods of San Telmo and Monserrat, to the south of the city center. Their number dwindled after the end of the Rosas regime in 1853.""

I mean it matters if Buenos Aires HAD A BLACK COMMUNITY ALMOST 200 YEARS AGO????

It's not relevant to te origins of TODAY'S population at all!! There are way more chinese, and jews and almost anything than black people in this city today!!!

This comment is a ridiculous as the Colorado's demographics saying that 200 year ago the population was mostly american creole (african, native american, english and spanish mixture)

You could put it in the demographics article in the history section. But here? It's about today's demographics!!.

you are talking about almost 200 years ago, when Buenos Aires was 70,000 inhabitants not 13 millions! that is history not a relevant fact for today's demographics!

And about the immigrtion i think is a huge problem in today's buenos Aires and the people from th provinces has nothing to do with that. The new immigrants ae from bordering countries not wonder we have a 10% of foreign people in BA and the 80% of the poortowns (or villas) are80% (according to Clarin and la Nacion) from bordering countries.

But it's ok, if you want to add the provinces but peope from another provinces except the in the NOA (which is just 5% of the national population anyway) is like people from Buenos Aires.

Please explain yourself better. What is it that you want? elpincha 04:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change Log, comments, etc.

* Please don't correct "Good Winds" back to "Good Airs".

When discussing the origin of name, it's Virgine and not Virgen because it is in Sardinian, not in Spanish.

Reference: http://www.sandanzas.com.ar/NUEVO/espanol/historia_buenosaires.htm

* Please don't correct "Argentines" back to "Argentinians".

Reference: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ar.html

um.. the name is translated as both "good airs" and "fair winds" in the introduction. i understand that these are synonyms but i think it should be consistent. "fair winds" sounds better but i'm not going to change it as i'm not familiar enough with spanish to be sure which translation is best. --142.68.236.133 10:37, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miscellaneous Clarifications

Buenos Aires is the Federal Capital of Argentina, but it is not a part of Buenos Aires province. To symbolize federalism, it is an autonomous city belongs to no province -- like Washington, DC, México DF, and Brasilia.

The capital of Buenos Aires province is La Plata, 60 km to the south.

The inhabitants of City of Buenos Aires are called porteños. The adjective spreads to anything related to the city.

The inhabitants of the province of Buenos Aires are called "bonaerenses".


We use the world "porteños" because of the seaport, so the people of the city with a seaport is called "porteños".

And nobody called "bonaerenses" to the inhabitants of the province but the information is correct. The inhabitants of the other provinces of Argentina called us "porteños" in a bad generalization without making diffenreces.

(sorry, my english is a mess, but if the important thing is the information i am a real "porteña")

[edit] Argentine Lore

"Dios está en todas partes, pero atiende en Buenos Aires"

(God is everywhere, but conducts His business in Buenos Aires)

[edit] Needed

Somebody please write a page on Edmundo Rivero.

Done - - - - elpincha 05:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Subway Network

Shouldn't we add something about the subway network? (Subte)

Yes Here is the link!!! Buenos Aires Metro

Get in here www.metrovias.com.ar the offcicial site.


Hi,

Is there any English medium schools in Beunos Aires?

[edit] Immigrants

Mestizo population? You would be hard pressed to find many other than those of foreign origin in the Capital. They are found mostly in the outlying provinces. What about the large number of Germans and Poles in Buenos Aires; recent indications are that Polaco-Argentinos constitute a large chunk of the population. Someone make note of the rich immigrant history besides Italian!

Disagree. Lots of people with mixed Spanish-indigenous roots in Buenos Aires if you venture outside the rich parts. Ever been to Soldati? Or to a choripan stand? And about the Poles... not so many. Definitely. They don't even have a club worth mentioning. There are quite a few newcomers from the Ukraine though. elpincha 00:12, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
That is interesting, but: what is the definition of mestizo we are going for? The "one-drop rule" of the Jim Crow Southern United States? My grandmother was half-native (noticeably), but the rest of my grandparents were white. Does that make me a mestizo when I'm nothing but obviously white, and the strains are not even noticeable in my mother? Yes, a few choripan vendors and mani sellers have their "look" but I must stress the mestizo element, if we are searching for a significant Indian "look," is minimal compared to the European in most of Capital Federal. I ran into one, exactly one Mapuche in my entire life, and he was of the type that did not marry into the Euro population. He too, was from Buenos Aires. Just to note: traditionally Jewish area around Corrientes and Pasteur (near Once as well) is flooded with Koreans immigrants, with Argentine born children. --Tuttobene 21:50, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
For the Jewish part, see the article on Balvanera. Anyway, and about the main point, most people would disagree with you about the subject matter, and most people would refuse to even start a racial debate like the ones they have in the USA all the time. In fairness you cannot talk about communities and leave out the ones that make up such a large part of the population - even if noticeably less so than in the rest of the country. elpincha 19:33, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Even though, statistics show that 85% of the Argentine population is of european origin, what is highly noticeable in Buenos Aires. I'm not saying that there are not mestizos at all, but at least not in the quantity and way that in other places. Just go to the street in different barrios, and make your own stats on how many white and real mestizo people you see.
To the last person, please signature your paragraph when commenting, otherwise it gets bewildering. In any event, you basically touched on my intitial point, and what elpincha didn't quite grasp from my comment. That is, there is a metizo element, and that should be duly mentioned, but they are few and far between when compared to the European in Buenos Aires. In any event, the city is a wonderful melange of peoples and it is ony getting richer as more immigrants arrive, albeit slowly with the present economy. --Tuttobene 21:56, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

OK, no more colons:-). I still disagree with Tuttobene. The pre-immigration-waves stock runs the gamut between Spanish (mostly from Extremadura) and aboriginal (Indian). This component, whilst a minority in the city proper, is still very noticeable if you go to the poorer areas (I stand by my previous Soldati reference) or to a football (soccer) match. Avoidance of this specific element comes naturally for expats working in financials who don't venture much, but for many of us natives (and I am not being personal here) carries some vague left-over smell of old-time mild-racism-slash-anti-Peronism à la Revolución Libertadora. As a counter-example, you could argue that the black community in Buenos Aires is very small (the historical reasons are that there ware never many slaves in this area, plus the ousting of Juan Manuel de Rosas, the massive draft over the Paraguay war, the humid climate, etc.) and be basically correct. Anyway, I am not reverting anything. Somebody else will do it better than I could. elpincha 15:39, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

This is a very sensitive issue in Buenos Aires, where people tend to regard European origins as superior to other origins. Most portenos are not 100% European or 100% native but somewhere in between (and there is also a strong Arab component). This should be acknowledged. Sprotch 09:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


"""The pre-immigration-waves stock runs the gamut between Spanish (mostly from Extremadura) and aboriginal (Indian). This component, whilst a minority in the city proper, is still very noticeable if you go to the poorer areas (I stand by my previous Soldati reference) or to a football (soccer) match."""


But that's because most of the poor zones of buenos aires have a strong influnce of north provinces, people who began to emigrate to Buenos AIres during the 40s with the fall of the agriculture. But they are not native population of Buenos AIres.

In 1869, there was about 300000 porteños (check out the spanish version for links). A great percentage of them already were europeans, then around 1870-1940 6 million!! European came to the city. That make practically imposible that any native porteño have native blood at a considerable degree. there were more Polish immigrants (more than half a million according to official numbers) that the native population at that time!. But ofcourse you see native american influence in the poor places because almost a million of persons in Buenos AIres, now are Bolivian Paraguayan, northwest argentines, Peruvians or childrens of them. And they live in those places. But again most of people in Buenos AIres is still of pure (at least about 95% aprox) of european ancestries.

That's why I changed "a plurality" to "most of them" Why do you change it again???

Trelew Girl

[edit] Colectivos and Taxis

I don´t know if it´s fair to say that the "colectivo" is an Argentine invention. It may have different names in different places, but the idea of a bus, or truck, or large car that drives people around the city on a regular route for a given rate is hardly unique or original to Argentina or Buenos Aires. Similar examples of "colectivos" are found in the history of other cities and public transport systems.

Also, the taxi drives that mug people... While it is a reality, I find it hardly representative of the majority of cabs one hails from the street.

Jorge

When everybody you know has been mugged at least once, I think its a sound advice to give. Ejrrjs | What? 19:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The original colectivo was different from nowadays buses un Buenos Aires, which are the same as the ones in most cities of the world. The original colectivo was an oversized car adapted to drive five to ten passengers at the same time, on a fixed route (the first one was the present line 1, beetween Plaza de Mayo and Plaza Once). Some years later, colectivos grew to a small bus of 20 passengers (un mundo de veinte asientos). In the 1960s they were replaced by common buses, and people called them omnibus, to distinguish them from colectivos. Finally, when old colectivos were totally replaced by omnibuses, people slowly started to call omnibuses colectivos again. About taxis, I lived in Buenos Aires for 25 years and I don´t recall knowing nobody who was ever mugged by a taxi driver (when I was little, a taxi driver tried to steal my mother saying that the $20 bill she gave him was a $5, but I found the bill on the passenger seat and that was it, - he was a pichi). I agree that you should have some criteria taken a cab, but saying that all cab that aren´t in a radio-taxi company are muggers, is an exageration. Sorry the length, --Jfa 20:33, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Unfortunately, a lot has changed in the last 10 years. A couple of assorted examples in the media (in Spanish): [1], [2] Ejrrjs | What? 21:05, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well, I moved away last year, so I´m not out of date.--Jfa 14:00, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I agree 100% with Jfa, Taxi drivers are in their majority honest people, and can be trusted. Having said that, it is not uncommon for them to "tour" people around to make the fare higher. All in all, I think the reference is racist and usually overblown by all media. The article is also wrong in that it states that you can't hail a radio-taxi. Not only you can, but people often prefer those since the fact that knowing that the driver can be identified by a company gives a sense of security to travelers. --Sebastian Kessel 20:54, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for interrupting the discussion but I wanted to ask if anyone knows who regulates the colectivos and how routes are set. I have the "guia de bolsillo" but it still seems like there isn't much order in the layout fo the different lines. It looks like every company decides for itself which two zones they want to connect and than randomly chooses how to get there. Anyone has some information about that ? Almogo 13:28, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The subways, buses and trains are regulated by the Comisión Nacional de Regulación del Transporte [3] which is part of the Secretaría del Transporte [4] of the Ministerio de Planificacion Federal, Inversión Pública y Servicios [5]. I peeked the cnrt page and didn't find who decides the routes, I'd say a company states "We want to entablish a route from point A to point B, going through here", and gets a license granted or not by the comision. SpiceMan (会話) 13:08, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
Most colectivo routes exists for most than 50 years unchanged. The route changes I heard of were rare and minor (for instance, line 169 extended from Congreso and Constituyentes to Congreso and Cabildo after subway sta. Congreso de Tucumán opened). I don't know how routes were established in the first place, but my guess is that it was test and error. However, the scheme works, though.--Jfa 17:35, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Buenos Aires taxi driver's are very, very kind, reliable and respectable people. if you wanna take a tour, they're the idicated.

[edit] Comunas

Houston, we have a problem. (Why Houston? We have enough problems ourselves, etc.. :-) The city is divided first in 15 Comunas and then 47 in barrios. This is not explained and there's no map representing this. legislatura.gov.ar has some info about it. Mariano(t/c) 13:19, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, it is convoluted. The Comunas nomenclature is formal but the barrio one is informal. Even though the barrios have standard limits, they don't really perform any administrative function. Comunas, on the other hand do have specific rights and powers under the law. I don't know if my explanation actually shed some light or not, but those are my two cents. ;) --Sebastian Kessel Talk 15:21, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
What happened to the circunscripciones aka parroquias? User:Ejrrjs says What? 23:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
They are gone, since the only practical use they had was for election purposes. Sebastian Kessel Talk 03:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I had included a list of all comunas and belonging barrios in Barrios of Buenos Aires, maybe I can copy the definition here.--Argentino (talk/cont.) 21:03, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I suggest we delete the Internet section

elpincha 09:18, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I suggest we move it to communications in Argentina Mariano(t/c) 11:48, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. Just make sure there's a link from Buenos Aires to communications in Argentina.

Well, that depends. I think the information given is not only valid for Buenos Aires but also for other big cities. (Someone from Cordoba and Rosario to give a word?) Mariano(t/c) 12:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Most of it is valid for Rosario (i. e. we were also f***ed by the download quotas thing). I'm not sure about speeds compared with Buenos Aires. The section seems too small anyway; maybe it should be merged into a more general "communications" section (the article on Rosario has one that talks about the number of phone lines and other stuff). --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 16:00, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

If its a contry-wide situation, it belongs to Communications in Argentina. Mariano(t/c) 09:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I suggest we restore the Political status section

Why was it deleted? Any reason?

I don't know, but it must be restore, I think.--Eloy 07:21, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Opposite Montevideo?

The city is opposite Colonia, Montevideo is substantially to the east. I'll change the article momentarily... I guess I never read it properly. Sebastian Kessel Talk 22:42, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Good you changed that, even though the city that's actually across Colonia is La Plata... look at the sat picture. elpincha 05:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Duchamp

Looks like he spent a few months playing chess in Bs As... maybe we should become more selective on who gets on the main page, or we are bound to face name inflation... (or we can wait a little more) elpincha 20:10, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 200 wifi spots

Unless I am dead wrong, this number is changing so fast that it's useless to have it here... elpincha 20:16, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Aye Aye sir, you're right. Fixed! Sebastian Kessel Talk 20:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
I suggest you remove altogether. "Several" gives the impression of a few scattered ones...
Actually, 200 in a city of 3.3 million inhabitants... it is a few scattered ones. :) Sebastian Kessel Talk 23:56, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No mention of Ibarra, Cromagnon

Who deleted the name of the mayor? Shouldn't he be mentioned? elpincha 21:08, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure he's still the mayor... Mariano(t/c) 15:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, I don't know the technicalities of the matter, but I believe he still is, though the other guy is currently covering for him until a decission is made. The other day I was wondering how to phrase it. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:36, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Speaking of Ibarra, I've added the infobox and I've written "Jorge Telerman" instead of Anibal Ibarra, because and until the impeachment ends, I guess the mayor is Jorge Telerman. If Ibarra is declared not guilty in the impeach, we'll put back his name on the infobox --Ojota 17:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
Mayor: Anibal Ibarra. Acting Mayor: Jorge Telerman (during Ibarra's impeachment, maybe with a link to an impeachment article) elpincha 06:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Caucasian city?

I've just reverted an addition by 200.48.226.232 (talk · contribs) claiming that Buenos Aires is "the most populous Caucasian city in the Americas". Cities are not Caucasian or of any other race, and moreover, the comment was not sourced and seemed rather inappropriate, as well as trivial. Demographics of Argentina already covers this in proper terms, citing genetic research and self-assumed ethnic heritage. --Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 00:50, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

What he probably meant is the city with the most caucasian population. I don't see why that is relevant but even if it were so, I'm not quite sure it's even true. Sebastian Kessel Talk 01:01, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
There is no such thing as a Caucasian city outside of the Caucasus, which is, ahem, quite far from Buenos Aires. (And yes, I do know what 200.48 meant...) elpincha 05:46, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Pablo I changed "a plurality of porteños" for "most porteños". IDK what you think? but it does make more sense and is more precised imo.

I didn't notice when that was changed, but yes, "most" seems correct, while "a plurality of" is awkward. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 10:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coat of arms

I guess the offficial coat of arms is another one. See this article to see what I mean --Ojota 05:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I know that isn't the official coat of arms without the link, in "Simbolos Nacionals de la República Argentina" ISBN 950-691-036-7 by the Government illustrates another coat, i suppose the one linked, i repeat i didnt see the link, but i know that coat of arms put in a white background is the city's flag, so we could keep it and change "coat" by "flag". I saw it in the preview and opened another window. that's the present c.of armsArgentino (Talk cont.) 15:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location Map

I've made a location map. as we haven't got a divided map for the centre of our country i did it with the whole big map. The result was this:

Buenos Aires
Buenos Aires
Buenos Aires
Buenos Aires Province

I don't add it because i dont find a place for it, but i leave it in this talk. The "float_caption" doesn't work, but i leave it so maybe someone can fix it The code is:
{{Superimpose| base = Argentina provinces, blank.png | base_width = 200px | base_caption = Buenos Aires | float = Locator_Dot.gif | float_width = 10px | float_caption = Buenos Aires | x = 149 | y = 122 }}
Argentino (Talk cont.) 15:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not porteños

i've just founded a mistake, inhabitants of province aren't called "porteños", that's only for the people of the city of Buenos Aires. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.48.121.54 (talk • contribs)

I don't know were do you tihnk porteños is used for the inhabitants of the province. Could you be more precise? Thank you. Mariano(t/c) 08:16, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

i've changed it before i talked to you about this, it would be uncorrect to keep it on the article-

[edit] Avenida 9 de Julio

Isn't it important to include information about the (supposedly) largest avenue in the world? Victah 00:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Avenida Rivadavia does certainly deserve it ;-) User:Ejrrjs says What? 09:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Largest? Longest? Widest? Yes, 9 de Julio Avenue, Corrientes Avenue and Rivadavia Avenue should be mentioned. Mariano(t/c) 10:39, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes it is certanly a motive of proudness for us, it must be mentioned--Argentino (talk/cont.) 00:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

9 de Julio is certainly the WIDEST STREET in the world, not the longest (RIVADAVIA is the longest STREET)

Not longer than this one... elpincha 03:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Of course, but Rivadavia is the longes urban (not highway) street in the world—Argentino (talk/cont.) 20:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Which doesn't change name. Mariano(t/c) 08:03, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Rivadavia only goes to Moreno (Reconquista river), 35 km according to Clarin. But, adopting the same criterium as Yonge st., the following Ruta 7 ends in the chilean border, much more tnam the 1800 km of Ontarios's Route 11... i think... Juan (--Jfa 13:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC))

Buenos Aires to Mendoza (capital) is 1100 km via route 8 to Villa Mercedes, and a little shorter when going straight from Plaza Congreso. Therefore... (This is elpincha 02:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC))
We agree that Rivadavia is the longes URBAN street, don't we?, now, adopting the same criteriun, it does not finish in the chilean brder, because it keeps on. rout 7 to mendoza is ~1150 km. To the chilean border ~150km and to Santiago ~250km. Still shorter (1450km).—Argentino (talk/cont.) 12:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it's silly to count routes as an extension of a street. I would go with 'one of the longest streets in the world', or 'locally considered to be the longest...'. Mariano(t/c) 13:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I dont like how "locally considered" sounds to me, but i think we shouldwait for Elpincha and Jfa —Argentino (talk/cont.) 13:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Wait no more! I'm here! Now, Yonge is 16 km inside Toronto (a little longer than Rivadavia thru Gral Paz) and the suburbia of Toronto are quite big themselves (even though the GTA is less dense than the GBA, and dissolves into cottage country). Anyways my friends: other than our semi-illiterate primary schoolteachers (who kinda seared this info into our little heads), who gives a (censored) about this issue? Certainly no respectable encyclopaedia would want to be conflated with the Guiness Book of Records, where this bit of info does belong. (By the same token, please please take note: speculations about whether Abbondanzieri's grandma had a Croatian twin half-brother are not relevant either in an encyclopaedia.) elpincha 15:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Factories

The railroad construction allow the flow from raw material into the harbor, not the factories, because there weren't important factories in Buenos Aires until 1910 Boris 00:03, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Details on History

I removed the following text added by anon user 201.250.9.239 (talk · contribs), which had detailed information of Argentine history that don't belong to this article. First because this is the article of a city, and historical events should be commented but not deeply developed, and second because the only connection with the city is the proson where these people from other cities and provinces were taken from.

"In 1974 and '75, approximately 10,000 members of the leftist militant movements and student organizers were taken as political prisoners by the government and put in such prisons as Penitenciaria Nº 9 in La Plata, Provincia de Buenos Aires, Rawson, in Patagonia, Devoto in Capital Federal, and later Caseros Prison (in Spanish La cárcel de Caseros) in Parque Patricios, among others."

Mariano(t/c) 07:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tourism

Should we leave a little bot on the subject in this article? At least mention a couple of places to see and a few comments, one or two paragraphs. Mariano(t/c) 14:19, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree. Will do it myself if I have time... elpincha 14:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Immigration (2)

I moved this to the bottom from a previous section to preserve chronological order (the other section was closed more than a year ago).

Pincha

I edited the part of "large communities of English, Poles, Germans etc", because most of the people of these origins (like me) are mixed with other european origins and they don't have a community, just like in the case of the people of Spanish and Italian origins their greatparents arrived about a century ago.

We can speak of communities in the case of Ukrainian, Romanians and Koreans of course, because most of them come in the last two decades.

About the mestizo population of the Nothern province and the indian/mestizo population from Bolivia, Peru, etc.

I placed it after the part where you mention the basic population of European origin, because it was a mix up.

Trelew Girl


About the mestizo discussion here, you should notice that Clarin published a month ago that about 2 million Peruvians, Paraguayan and Bolivians live in Buenos Aires!!!

That is like 20% of the population!!. What are these people Argentines or Porteños?

Here we set another discussion, because the thruth is they are not even Argentines!.

I know Pompeya, Soldati etc like the back of my hand, and many people people there is foreign. I wen to a school near Bajo Flore when I was a child and most of my mates like 90%, were Bolivians or Peruvians or have Peruvians or Bolivians parents, in La Nación also a moth ago, they said that in La caba 70% of the population were foreigns.

Trelew Girl


Hi! Please place your new comments at the bottom of the article starting a new section, so we can keep track easily. In the past we've had very serious problems around the issue of demographics of Argentina, as you can see from the discussion there, so I advise you to cite your sources when you substantially change an article regarding that. I'll leave to established editors of this page to decide which version is more correct.
About the population of Buenos Aires, I guess that when you speak of it you mean the number of residents, regardless of whether they were born there or their immigration status (legal or illegal), as long as they're not simply tourists. Also, while newspapers are OK, the INDEC and its associated surveys are to be preferred as sources (if nothing else because they're official). —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 21:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Whatever. elpincha 01:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination prompts some thoughts

The GA nomination has made me have a new look at the article and I think that was is there is great, but it is lacking in a few respects. Hopefully these aren't material to the GA review.

Firstly, many of the photos, whilst interesting, bear no relation to the text they are in. Any guide to BA would have pics of tango, Caminito, etc. We should be original and not a tourist guide but an encyclopaedia, but the pics aren't exactly inspiring. I have added some pictures that are hopefully more relevant to illustrate history, sport and tango, but decided not to remove any, for now. I'm not sure what the Puente de la Mujer photo is for, for instance.

Secondly, the number of pictures illustrating the city's architecture made me realise that this isn't really covered in the text. Neither is a geographical outline that illustrates BA's position as an internal and foreign port, etc, etc. Again there are photos for this but no real text, which is odd. Pictures and architecture are two of my weak points however. Martín (saying/doing) 00:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Puente de la Mujer may represent Puerto Madero, the latest expansion (or renewal, in any case) of the city. User:Ejrrjs says What? 00:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diputados

Disculpen mi casi nulo conocimiento de inglés, pero Buenos Aires no tiene representación nacional en la Cámara de Diputados, ya que los diputados no representan ni a las provincias ni a la ciudad, sino al pueblo de la Nación Argentina. Las provincias y la ciudad sólo tienen representación en el Senado. --190.48.101.23 12:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Por un rato pensé que te referías a que la Ciudad Autonóma no tenía diputados nacionales. Sí, técnicamente está mal dicho que los diputados representan a un distrito, según lo que expresa la Constitución:

Artículo 44.- Un Congreso compuesto de dos Cámaras, una de diputados de la Nación y otra de senadores de las provincias y de la ciudad de Buenos Aires, será investido del Poder Legislativo de la Nación.

Voy a ver cómo lo expreso en el artículo. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 13:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article nomination has failed

The Good article nomination for Buenos Aires has failed, for the following reason:

Lacks specific citations for factual data. Although many "External links" are listed, please match these up to the facts they reference using WP:CITE and WP:CITET. Once you have done that, feel free to either re-nominate it, or come straight to me on my talk page and I'll have another look at it. Otherwise, it has GA Status written all over it. Killfest2—Daniel.Bryant 03:14, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I have added a bunch of references to address this concern, but it needs some more, especially in the history and language sections. I could add more from travel guides but this is inappropriate for this article (I hope they are acceptable to everyone for culture and transport matters). Martín (saying/doing) 10:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Immigration (la tercera es la vencida?)

In order to avoid future arguments on the issue on how much of Buenos Aires is "full of Bolivians and Paraguayans", here are the latest data released by INDEC (Encuesta Complementaria de Migraciones Internacionales), summarized in a table.

The following are numbers of people born in Bolivia and Paraguay, residing in the city of Buenos Aires and its metropolitan area, by period of arrival to Argentina (the total includes previous periods). Note that this doesn't say whether these people were naturalized or kept their original nationality, or whether they're legal or illegal immigrants.

Bolivians
Arrived 1980–1989 1990–2003 Total
City of BA 11611 29129 49475
GBA 13932 29990 69639
Total 25543 59119 119114
Paraguayans
Arrived 1980–1989 1990–2003 Total
City of BA 8934 17876 46279
GBA 32455 53834 190419
Total 41439 71710 236698

There are many more data at the INDEC's website. We could use some for this article and of course for Argentina, Demographics of Argentina and Immigration in Argentina, though I'd rather not clutter them with tables. —Pablo D. Flores (Talk) 15:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Non calentarum. Facts won't do much... it's an old porteño thing. Many people think badly about the immigrants, and there is also the real or imagined Boca Juniors link, which keeps bringing up some mock racism (taunting) and also some of the worst, real Racism in Argentina. The "anti-groncho" racism is a Buenos Aires thing, which is kept healthy by the element that went with the unitarios against Rosas, and then with Uriburu against Yrigoyen, Aramburu against Perón, and Alvaro Alsogaray's Ucedé after 1983. (Lots of Basque names there eh?) elpincha 17:30, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Besides, not all morochos are Bolivians. Salteños and Jujeños (to name some) are also Argentine! Mariano(t/c) 07:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
The xenophobia excuse is used to avoid being seen as overtly racist. On the other hand, and for the benefit of most readers, let it be said here that most Argentines feel OK if their teacher, accountant, doctor, or traveling companion belongs to a different ethnic group. When a patient is admitted to a hospital, there is no "race" question in the admission forms the way it is in the USA. And "Lucy marrying Desi" is not seen as a violation of God's law.
Most Argentines also feel that the old-money aristocarcy has failed the country then and again (so that early Peronism's emphasis on denouncing the "oligarchy" met with success). It is in that enclave that most of the prejudice lives. elpincha 11:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of Buenos Aires

The real translation of Buenos Aires is good airs, not fair winds. User:Mariano Genio

Literal translation is not always the best choice. Fair Winds is the common translation, much like Río de la Plata is translated to River Plate instead of River of Silver. Mariano(t/c) 07:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Is that explained anywhere in the article. I have minimal knowledge of Spanish, but Buenos is usually 'good' as in ¡Buenos dias! (good day). Aire is Spanish for air. A girl from Argentina told me it was good airs. 58.169.157.145 09:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Literal translatiion isn't the best choice,--AleG 16:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC),I'm a poteño P.s. fair winds is the real meaning

[edit] "More Resources" section

Why is that terribly commercial Buenos Aires site the only link in the more resources section? It is VERY thin on good Buenos Aires content, and is really just a commercial for a load of hotels, so why is it in this article?

Can we agree to remove it? Inglesenargentina 22:27, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geography & Climate

How about a section on Geography and Climate? Maybe a relief map? A monthly climate table (avg. daily high/low, precipitation, etc.)?

THANKS to everyone who has contributed content.  :)

Doctor Doolittle 05:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

    • EDIT: Sorry, I just realized of course that this is covered in the Wikipedia entry for the country Argentina.

[edit] Cosas oficiales/Official issues

A ver, según la Constitución de la Ciudad (1996), art. 2: "La Ciudad de Buenos Aires se denomina de este modo o como 'Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires'"; o sea, estos dos serían los nombres oficiales de la Ciudad, aunque se usa más el segundo en documentos oficiales, incluso en el título de la misma constitución dice "Autónoma". Pero, en fin, el asunto es que esto no aparece más que en la caja de informaciones porque lo puse yo. Por otro lado, no hay referencia acerca del uso popular de "Capital" o "Capital Federal" en el texto excepto la que puse en el encabezado (y que se ve feísimo). ¿Hay alguna razón para no hacerlo o sigo adelante con las modificaciones?

Otra cosa: tanto acá como en el resto de artículos relacionados a esto, se usa "Chief of Government" para "Jefe de Gobierno", ¿no sería mejor (aun estando en la Wikipedia inglesa), usar el título en castellano?

About your last question: no. elpincha 15:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok. I'll continue fixing the official name of Bs. As., then... if there is nobody against it. --Neigel von Teighen 12:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

This is what in philology is known as a "free translation", this is, not an exact and literal translation from the Spanish so it sounds as written directly in English. Thus, don't try to compare vocabulary and grammar between my Spanish and my English!

According to the Buenos Aires City Constitution, art. 2: "Buenos Aires City is called this way or 'Buenos Aires Autonomous City'"; i.e, this are the both official names of Buenos Aires, altough the second one is the most widespread used among offficial documents, including the title of the same constitution. But, the problem is that these doesn't appear excepting for the InfoBox (because I wrote it there). There isn't, also, any reference to popular "Capital" or "Capital Federal" excepting the one I included in the introduction. Is there any reason to don't put it or should I continue editing the article so it appears?

Capital Federal ceased to be an official term in 1994, but it remains a powerful (unofficial) way to disambiguate the city from the province. elpincha 15:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that's why I say it is a popular name. Official names are only both Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires and older Ciudad de Buenos Aires. I wonder if Cap. Fed. was ever an official term: prior 1994, the name of the government was I. Municipalidad de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires; is there any reference on Capital Federal as official term? --Neigel von Teighen 10:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Plenty. Just look around. elpincha 12:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh yes! --Neigel von Teighen 12:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Another thing: here and also in the rest of Buenos Aires-related articles, the term "Chief of Government" is used in English, wouldn't be better to use "Jefe de Gobierno" in Spanish? --Neigel von Teighen 14:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

No. elpincha 12:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seaport?

I'd say the correct term is "inland port", since BsAs port is by the river. elpincha 15:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improve this article

I think that is time from another renomination for good article, so we can detect the flaws of the article and improve it until its reach de FA class. We can do it better. For example, the pictures have nothing in common with the text. Or there are too much sentences without a proper connection. I'm going to see if I can find proper pictures for the article. I want this article to be on the top BorisDelMas 21:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, the 9 de Julio pic makes it look a lot better... (Wow, who took that photograph?... it's great!) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Imaglang (talk • contribs) 12:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC). (Thank you, bot! --Neigel von Teighen 12:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Idiosyncrasy

I changed a little bit of the article in the Misc section because i think we must keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia and need to show facts not speculations or ways of thinking. Uruguay is an entire different country that has nothing to do with Argentina, except for share borders, and of course they did not called themselves "provincianos". Also I think the important stuff is that the Argentine stereotype comes from the inhabitants of Buenos Aires and this stereotype is common in Latin America. (Faturita 18:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Translation of Buenos Aires 2

Here again someone edits a literal translation of “Buenos Aires”, Buenos Aires truly translates to “Fair Winds”, a word less familiar now a days but commonly used when the city was founded and it's related to nautical and balloon flights centuries past, it's silly to put “good airs” (disparate) witch means nothing and it's plainly a literal translation. Additional comments above. ~ Moebiusuibeom-en 18:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I think it was already agreed and consensuated.--Mariano(t/c) 20:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I third that, even though when you investigate the "Virgine de Bonaria" name, some sources point the other way. Of course, there were no balloons involved in the 1530 foundation... elpincha 14:51, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures are rendered too big

The article looks cluttered and ugly. Somebody? elpincha 14:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid I had to remove them from the article because they don't have valid copyright information. --Mariano(t/c) 16:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the naming revert war

The name comes from the Virgine de Bonaria (or Buon'aria) in Cagliari, Sicilia.

In turn, it is almost universally accepted that the meaning here is "good winds" ("Fair Winds"), that is, winds that help the seamen.

See the Names of Buenos Aires article.

I am going to write a longer article here soon. Meantime, take this link (Spanish) to read more about the subject (from one perspective) and this one from the other side.

And please, do not revert mindlessly.elpincha 06:11, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


Cagliari is not in Sicily, but in Sardinia. It is the 7th or 8th of principal italian cities --82.55.91.173 (talk) 05:45, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Neighborhood named after 9/11?

I heard that Buenos aires has a neighbothood named after 9/11, "Once de Septiembre", and that they have gone so far to name a railroad station "Once" (Eleven) after 9/11 as well. Is that true? 204.52.215.107 15:19, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a neighbourhood called Once, but it's not related to 9/11/2001, it's called that way since a long time ago! Maybe to Domingo Faustino Sarmiento's death (9/11/1888)? --Neigel von Teighen 13:22, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Good guess, but nope. The name Once comes from the date of the battle of Pavón, 11/Sep/1852. elpincha 19:25, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
(¿¿¿Cómo no se me ocurrió???) --Neigel von Teighen 14:54, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Te puedo decir con 80% de seguridad que es la muerte de Sarmiento, no es el "dia del maestro", creo?
Um, I think the name is after a revolution which separed the City from the provinces. It was 11/9/1852, Pavon battle was fought 10 years later.

[edit] snow! snow!

Today, for the first time in more than 150 years, SNOWS IN BUENOS AIRES. This is a historiacal day --Fixman 19:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

YAY!! I can't believe it! I'm watching the snow falling thought my window, it's sooooooo lovely.McMare's 22:59, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
If someone could add a –properly sourced, if own, even better– picture of a snow-covered Buenos Aires landmark, now that would be a great contribution.--Mfolozi 09:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somebody please produce a climate chart that renders well

The current one steps over text, at least for me (Firefox 1.5 over WinXP Pro). elpincha 20:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Versalles

Hi. At the moment the Versalles link in the "Barrios of Buenos Aires" section sends you to a district in Columbia. This needs to be fixed. Just to let you Argentinian fans know. See you soon. 80.200.148.24 22:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Climate: Humid Subtropical?

Bs As's climate is considered as SUBTROPICAL by Koppen clasification (22º+ in warmest month - Bs As warmest is 24º). I would like to know if this is actually a misnomer: I don't really know if cooler areas in CFA of Koppen clasification system are correctly said to be subtropical (another example of this is central US or China, where winters are even colder). In my opinion, I would place this city between the Oceanic climate and the Humid Subtropical. I just made an arrangement in the text: Bs As is undoubtedly "temperate", so I added that and put between brackets "(considered as Humid Subtropical or CFA by Koppen classification)". I would like to know your what's your view in this topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.35.206 (talk) 01:19, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sad article

This article is sad. It treats the city like some mid-continent large town. The introduction is pathetic. Dry and absolutely undescriptive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.236.12.233 (talk) 06:13, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] what?

The Biggest Team is Independiente de Avellaneda, But The best-known rivalry is the one between Boca Juniors and River Plate.168.226.129.254 (talk) 23:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Layout of Article

Hey everyone, Moebiusuibeom here, took the liberty of enhancing «image wise» the Layout of Article, witch suffered from

  • overcrowding and clutter of images
  • side by side images
  • sections with unrelated images —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moebiusuibeom-en (talk • contribs) 15:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
  • unbalanced layout
  • inconsistent sizing of images and
  • broken up sections

Sorry for NOT informing previously but i started with only a couple and kept on going.

I believe it now looks more encyclopedic, structurally balanced and "visually friendly", please!, any disagreements let me know – Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 15:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I did sign my username: Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 17:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Lets reposition Buenos Aires as a was a good article nominee - Moebiusuibeom-en (talk) 17:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Fail

Unfortunately, I believe that this article still does not meet the Good Article criteria. As with the last nomination, the problem is still the lack of referencing. Entire sections are unreferenced and there is a "citation needed" tag. In addition, a few other problems stand out: Image:Geniol .jpg has no fair use rationale, and Image:TangoCouple.jpg has no fair use rationale specific to this article (a separate rationale is needed for each use on Wikipedia). The lead needs expansion to suit the length of the article. Phrases are used that date the article, such as "as of December 2007" and "as of June 2007". Many sections and paragraphs need expansion (single-sentence paragraphs should not be used). To expand sections, vague statements could be expanded ("Sizable Jewish and Muslim communities have existed in the city for over a century." - are numbers available? do they live in certain areas of town? do they have notable ceters of worship? how did the communities originate?) References should be consistently formatted, preferably using a {{cite web}} template and must have at least a title, publisher, url and accessdate. Because this article still has a way to go, I am going to fail it for now. I urge you to address these points, do some copyediting, and preferably place it for peer review before nominating it again. Best wishes, GaryColemanFan (talk) 17:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there are too many images. We should triage and leave maybe 10 to 15 max. The "Jews and Muslims" paragraph should link to the respective articles (probably the applicable ones are History of the Jews in Argentina and Islam in Argentina). About the detail: Jewish history tended to center around Libertad Street, Balvanera and Villa Crespo, but the distribution has been very dynamic ever since the 1980s. Islamic institutions tended to be located in or around Balvanera and San Cristóbal but the recent construction of the Palermo mosque has shifted their dynamics as well. The Armenian neighborhood, by the way, used to be around Niceto Vega and Serrano in Palermo Viejo.
Another thing I noticed is that it is becoming quite hard to actually write in Wikipedia. It used to be that you wrote, threw in a link like this [6] and were allowed to take some time to come up with references. Now the formatting nazis have at you and the reference nazis ask for references about things that are common knowledge and/or can be validated by a 15-second Google session. It's not that fun anymore. I still see a lot of my copy here, but I find it increasingly difficult to navigate the markup, the pictures, the badly formatted tables, you name it. elpincha (talk) 14:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Archbishop of Buenos Aires - primate of Argentina

I have changed "prelate of Argentina" to "primate of Argentina" because every single bishop in Argentina(and elsewhere) is a prelate but only the archbishop of Buenos Aires is a primate(first of the bishops of a particular national Church within the Roman Catholic Church).

Isidoros47 (talk) 19:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Football teams and stadiums

I'll comment as a football fan and an inhabitant of Buenos Aires:

1º Racing Club and Independiente are not INSIDE Buenos Aires, they are in the metropolitan area. We should consider the General Paz as a boundary. Also someone should add Huracán and Argentinos. That's it :)

2º Diego Armando Maradona, born in Villa Fiorito, a villa miseria in the Lomas de Zamora Partido (then part of Lanús Partido) of Greater Buenos Aires, is widely hailed as one of the greatest football players of all time.

This is what Maradona's wiki says:

FIFA conducted a fan poll on the Internet in 2000, to elect the Player of the Century. Maradona finished top of the poll with 53.6% of the vote. Subsequently, however, and contrary to the original announcement of how the award would be decided, FIFA appointed a "Football Family" committee of football experts that voted to award Pelé the title. Maradona protested at the change in procedure, and declared he would not attend the ceremony if Pelé replaced him. Eventually, two awards were made, one to each of the pair. Maradona accepted his prize, but left the ceremony without waiting to see Pelé receive his accolade.

Source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/2000/12/11/pele_maradona/

So? Maradona is widely hailed the greatest football players of all time. (FIFA loves Pele because he helps them but Maradona is always against FIFA)

190.55.123.252 (talk) 11:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)