Talk:Buddhism and Jainism
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59.95.164.38 09:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC) I have added a description about the non-extreme way of life under the Jain tradition. The previous author perhaps might not be aware of these nuances. However, Jainism does prescribe a moderate and non-extreme way of Dharma, which I have described.
-rishabh-
Second Edit
"Early Buddhists posited the existence of 24 previous Buddhas (Buddhas who walked the earth prior to Siddhartha Gautama, as established in the Buddhist text Mahavanso 1:100:1 among others"
Think for the sake of clarity, it is best we stay inside the Buddhist Pali Canon for doctrinal comparisons between it and Jainism. As historical commentaries written a thousand years after the time of Buddha may include ideas not generally accepted by Buddhism, where as the Pali Canon tends to be embraced by Buddhist of almost any tradition as basically historically accurate as to what Buddha said and didn't say.
In the Pali Canon, I don't think Buddha makes mention of more then six prior Buddhas to of been on Earth and only predicted the next immediate one that would be coming. Those 6, being Vipassi, Sikhi, Vessabhu, Kakusandha, Konagamana, Kassapa and the coming one Metteyya. He also talks of large numbers of paccekabuddhas. The 24 previous Buddhas comparison between Janism and Buddhism is interesting, but maybe just a confusion or adoption that made its way into the Mahavanso. It is not an generally accepted Buddhist cosmological idea.
Hope nobody is bothered, but I'm going to alter this section, as I feel it would be misleading to people.
- Iamlog
--
Reason for edit.
"The Buddhist formulation of the "Middle Way" may have been a post-Buddha response by the Buddhist monastic community to criticism by the Jains"
Think maybe the whole associated paragraph to the above should be removed, or seriously reworded. As the idea of the "Middle Way" being a post-Buddha monastic creation seems unfounded, at least when considered within context to basic Buddhist philosophy. Conventional wisdom may make such an idea seem plausible, but this doesn't take into account how central to Buddhism the idea of the "Middle Way" is. Although, on the surface it can seem to just be a backing off some of the more stringent ascetic practices, this really isn't the point of it. The "Middle Way" is maybe better thought of as specifically being the Arya(Noble) Eightfold Path, rather then some compromise between indulgence and self-mortification or a later defense against any Jain criticism. Especially given that the Eightfold Path really has little to do with denying either ascetic or hedonistic practices.
I'm also considering removing the, "In short, a large body of evidence suggests vividly that, in large measure, Buddhism is an offshoot of Jainism.", as from what was presented in the article the case doesn't seem to be made. If there is a large body of evidence to make this case, then it would be a great if it was posted. As it is though, it seems to only be conjecture from a Jain perspective. However, Buddhism is no doubt heavily influenced by Jainism, and much of the early Buddhist canon freely admits this. Although at times, some of Buddhist behavior in the Pali Canon as it related to Jainism, seems to be more in a sense of appeasing the Jain sesnobilities, because in their eyes some things Buddhist were doing appeared to be needlessly destructive (like Buddhist traveling during the rains) or not very wholesome. If it wasn't a big issue either way for the Buddhist, they'd acquiesce for the sake of harmony (related to the whole Middle Way thing). Like if you're grandma tells you to take off your hat, in her house. There really is no reason to take it off, but there is no reason to leave it on and upset her.
For now, I'm going to delete the paragraph and make some other small edits. If anybody object, feel free to return it to its original format and we can discuss the matter.
-Iamlog
--70.55.12.61 21:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)In Jainsim.... it is wrong to say that Siddartha Gautama was contemporary of Mahavira. In fact, Mahivira hada disciple named Gautama and hence the confusion. Nirgrantha nathaputta was contemporary of Buddha. Nirgrantha nathaputta and Mahavira are different people
Mahvira's site of moksha attainment is in Bihar (Pava Puri).
Still a further research to be undertaken, may be the jain perspective needs to be publsihed that will clarify the above.
B Mehta
[edit] mutual rise from / reaction to hinduism?
lonely planet India says both of these religions arise from Hinduism but react against the caste system. it says Jainism is frank about this but Buddhism is not. It's not much of an authority, but if this is true it would make an interesting addition here.--202.53.85.74 11:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
59.94.113.39 14:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)Digvijay Echology in Buddhism and Jainism There may be, unknown to me, already some discussion on this topic. But exact reference may be posted by persons who know. Or serious discussion with correct references may be started right now. Digvijay
Mutual Influence not Derivation.
There is some confusion in the article in relation to Mahavira and Gautama Buddha. They were contemporaries, and it is certain that later there was a great deal of friendly debate and intercourse between their two traditions. However it is incorrect to postulate that one is a derivative of the other, nor is it correct to postulate that either are derived from 'Hinduism'. This is the collective label that was once applied to 'Indian Religious Traditions' that in recent times has changed to mean only 'Vedic Religion'. During the lifetimes of Mahavira and Gautama there was no overall sense of collective identity in Indian religions, only an array of competing philosophical schools, which had many doctrines in common. There was also only a very limited form of the caste system in existance at that time and it was confined to certain regions. The idea of a rigid and monolithic Indian religion stretching back to antiquity out of which Buddhism and Jainism later developed is a fiction. The religious institutions of 'Hinduism', 'Buddhism' and 'Jainism' developed much later, hence the mention of Jainism as a pre-existant religion in Buddhist texts; these were written centuries after the lifetimes of both Gautama Buddha and Mahavira. Lastly, although I love the information contained in the related article 'Shramana', it is an eccentric and old fashioned form of collective reference akin to 'Tantrism' or 'Padmaism'. These terms have different meanings in their respective traditions and therefore it is incorrect to group them together in this way. Any personal interpretation or theory, such as the existance of an autonomous 'Shramana tradition', should also be clearly indicated to be separate from historical fact.
[edit] POV Tag
I'm doing POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. This is a drive-by tag, which is discouraged in WP, and it shall be removed. Future tags should have discussion posted as to why the tag was placed, and how the topic might be improved. Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements.Jjdon (talk) 16:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Intro?
The introduction to this article is definitely too large. I'm not very good at restructuring articles, but if anybody's up to the task, perhaps they could move most of the details into other sections. --Qmwne235 21:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
