Talk:Bu Ali Shah Qalandar
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[edit] Accusation of Vandalism
User:Hello32020 has called my edits as Vandalism and has threatened to block me. Can you two gentlemen look at my edits (which were no more than adding material in view of the discussion). Thank you Hassanfarooqi 15:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] General discussion
The above account on Shaikh Sharafuddeen Bu Ali Qalandar Panipati reeks with fantasy and is totally unacceptable historically. He was certainly not a native of Panipat as an embossed epigraph on the right wall of the entrance to his mausoleum reads in Persian and gives his family tree (Shijreh Nasbi) that links his descent from Imam e Aazam Nauman Ibn Saabit (Abu Haneefa) and quotes his birthplace as Ganjeh (in present Azerbaijan). The left wall has a qaseedeh (panegyric) embossed and painted in blue and gold, written by Zahuri Neishabouri who had visited India at Akbar's reign. The mausoleum and the mosque and the enclosure were constructed by Mahabat Khan a Muslim noble in service of Emperor Nuruddeen Muhammad Jehangir. Mahabat Khan's tomb is in red sandstone and is adjacent to the Shaikh's mausoleum.
The reference to the saint's name Bu Ali and the funny anecdote following it ( receiving of Hazarat Ali's scent as a reward for standing for days in water from the Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him and his following! ) is baseless! Islam does not teach such practices as in Hindu Hatha Yoga where yogis practice siddhi by standing in water or standing on their heads for days. Baseless accounts from uneducated storeytellers who mostly became sajjada nasheens at bygone saints' dargahs centuries later, have been invented and passed on to generations of newly converts mostly from illiterate Hindus, to gain credibility and popularity by showing similarities in their uneducated interpretation of Tasawwuf and their followings' forsaken Hindu faith. The epigraph showing his family tree says his kuniyyat (nom de salute) is Abu Ali meaning Ali's father and referring to Abu Talib Ibn Abdul Muttalib. He was a qalandar (Turkish word meaning nomadic people trading in animals like goats and sheep ) by birth and a descendant of the school of Khwaja Bahauddeen Herati a qalandar saint of the Silsila Haideria. Another notable name from this silsila of qalandars whose peculiarity laid in keeping their eyebrows shaved along with mustaches and carrying a sharp razor always along, is Shaikh Abu Bakar Tusi Haideri who had visited Delhi in the reign of Sultan Jalaluddeen Feroze Khalji and whose mureeds accompanying him, at the behest and in the presence of the Sultan, had cruelly put to death a Sufi of Delhi, Sayyadi Maula who was from the Shia sect of Muslims.(Tareekh Ferozeshahi-Ziauddeen Barni).
Shaikh Sharafuddeen Bu Ali Qalandar was a contemporary of Shaikh Nizamuddeen Auliya of Delhi and a close friend of Khwaja Rukunuddeen Thanesari. He had the habit of wandering alone in the dense jungles near today's city of Panipat and his body had been found lying 4-5 days after death by wood-cutters who had brought it back to Panipat and had him buried. He certainly did not disappear in thin air as the above citing reads. Refer to Badayuni's Muntakhab ut Tawaareekh for the verse in Farsi giving the year of death. The grave of the renowned Urdu poet Shamsul Ulama Maulana Haali Panipati a pupil of Ghalib and Hakeem Momin Khan Momin, lies at the left of the entrance to the complex.
Sources:- 1)Muntakhab-ut-Tawaareekh. Mulla Abdul Qadir Badayuni. English translation by John William Greers. The Royal Asiatic Society Calcutta. India. 2)Epigraphia Indo-Islamica.Vol XIII.Archaeological Survey of India. Sir Ghulam Yazdani (Director General ASI).Institute of Archaeology, New Delhi.India. 3)Aab-e-kausar. Dr.Shaikh Muhammad Ikram. Shaikh Ghulam Ali & Sons. Lahore. Pakistan. 4)Akhbaar-Ul-Akhiyaar. Shaikh Abdul Haq Muhaddis Dehlavi.( Urdu translation by Professor Ghulam Rasool Mehr). Maktaba Usmania. Hyderabad.A.P. India. 5)Tareekh-e-Ferozeshahi. Ziauddeen Barni. The Royal Asiatic Society. Calcutta. India. Lutfullah 14:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)Lutfullah
[edit] Points need transferring to article page
Lutfullah, it seems that you have gathered a lot of genuine information on this historical personage. Would you be able to transfer it into the article itself, especially the points that come from the sources that you have listed? If you do not have much experience of Wikipedia editing I, or other more experienced editors, will be able to help you. You could leave a message on my talk page user talk:itsmejudith if you need that help. Itsmejudith 18:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Can we find ISBNs for sources?
The books cited by Lutfullah all appear to be scholarly histories and highly appropriate for the article. However, there is potential confusion about which edition is being used. If you read this, Lutfullah, do you have citations that are quite readily available and especially do you have ISBNs. Thanks. Itsmejudith 20:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
Madam! The primary sources of information abnegating the article are the very epigraphs on either walls of the door leading to the Shaikh's mausoleum. They are not books but their excellent writing material has withstood both time's ravages and the very poor conservation of the complex since it's construction by Mahabat Khan Circa 1585, by the local authorities. This either needs a visit to the shrine or maybe a photograph (if at all taken) can be obtained by request to the Archaeological Survey of India, New Delhi India or Haryana State Tourism Department, Chandigarh India. If you wish I can photograph these using a macro 85mm lens and send you prints.
The books barring Epigraphia Indo-Islamica, Vol.13 and Aab-e-Kausar by Late Shaikh Muhammad Ikram PhD.,were read by me at Aligarh Muslim University Library, Khuda Bakhsh Oriental Library Patna and Usmania University Library Hyderabad in India some twenty odd years ago while compiling my doctoral thesis and were very old publications even then, perhaps not having ISBN listing at all.
You can get reference on Epigraphia.... from Institute of Archaeology New Delhi and reference from any leading bookshop/library of Pakistan on Aab-e-Kausar by Dr.Shaikh Muhammad Ikram.
On Abdul Qadir Badayuni's Muntakhab-ut-Tawaareekh, Ziauddeen Barni's Tareekh-e-Ferozeshahi, and Shaikh Abdul Haq Muhaddis Delhlavi's Akhbaar-ul-Akhyaar, reference can be sought from The India Office Library London UK and the museums/libraries of UK where probably manuscripts too can be traced out of these centuries old renowned chronicles. Thanks.Lutfullah 21:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)Lutfullah
- Dear Lutfullah. I'm sorry for not having replied to your very full reply before. I take your points about the sources you have cited. They are fully scholarly and the fact that they were written before the ISBN system is no obstacle to them being cited. I have looked in the on-line catalogue of the British Library and leading British university libraries and there are indeed copies of some of the books, although sometimes it is difficult to tell what is a translation of what, and there are also many potential difficulties with the English transliteration of Urdu names. You will see that I have made a series of edits to this article and to the related articles Panipat, Karnal and Karnal District. I have doubtless made many errors and would be very grateful if you could point these out or just correct them in encyclopedia. I am trying to do my best but am hampered by my dreadful ignorance about south Asian cultures.Itsmejudith 00:13, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unsourced material
I moved this material from the main page as it has no source and I cannot find links to the places and people mentioned.
On the contrary to what is mentioned above, Hazrat Bu Ali Shah Qalandar was born in Kuram Agaency of Pakistan (India at that time). His Father Fakhr-e-Alam is also a well renouned saint. After initial years in Kuram, he went to Panipat. His dynasity of Shajara-e-Nasb ends at Hazrat Hussain Al Asghar bin Zain-ul-Abideen bin Imam Hussain bin Imam Ali (A.S). Big number of Shah Sharfuddin's decendents are still present in Pakistan.
[edit] Birth date confusion
There are three dates given in this article for his birthdate; 1090 in the category, which I think is a mistake for 1190 in the text, but the next paragraph cites 1400 as an early birthdate; checking the Library of Congress website gives 1205?-1324 and cites sources such as a an Arabic book about him pub. in 2004 and the 1960 Encycl. of Islam; any way to align these and correct the dates? Thank you. --FeanorStar7 15:38, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
- I can't give any easy solution. Lutfullah (an IP using that signature) has access to scholarly accounts from the days of British rule in India as well as being able to look at the temple inscription itself. He gave the 1190 date. I think you are right that 1090 is just an error for that. 1400 was stated without any source in an early version of the article. That version was pretty incoherent and obviously based on legend, and Lutfullah was insistent that it should be changed. The Library of Congress website should count as a reliable source, but we can't have a great deal of confidence in 1205?-1324, since it is very unlikely he lived till 119. I wouldn't be able to read the Arabic book, but the Encyclopedia of Islam may be available on-line. Up till now I was going to have confidence in Lutfullah's sources but you're right that this needs some more investigation. Itsmejudith 07:53, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Madam Judith,
Nowhere in my contributions or comments on this subject, have I cited any year of birth of the Shaikh. I fail to understand from your post above the reasons for attributing to me the citation of the year 1190 Alhijri being shown in the article as the year of birth! 1190 Alhijri will roughly translate to circa 1758 A.D. And then 1190 A.D was an year in which the earliest of historically known Islamic missionaries and Shaikhs had yet to arrive at Delhi and its neighbourhood including Panipat.
I have just seen this post and shall visit Panipat in the next 48 hours to see if any year of birth is traceable from the epigraphs and also look up the Epigraphia Indo Islamica volumes in the Institute of Archaeology at New Delhi on my way and shall post here my findings. ThanksLutfullah 09:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)Lutfullah
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- So if 1190 is a Hijri date, we should change it in the article to reflect that; currently it says 1190 CE (Common Era/AD) which is why the category would be 1190; if 1190 AH is meant and it would be 1758 CE than that should be the correct date; thoughts? --FeanorStar7 (talk) 12:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
1758 AD is unacceptable totally. The Shaikh was a contemporary of Delhi's Saint Shaikh Nizamuddin Auliya who was born during the reign of Shamsuddin Altamash and had lived a ripe age of 99 years before dying during the reign of Muhammad Bin Tughlaq. All these years roughly mean 1235-1334 AD. Also Shaikh Sharafuddin Bu Ali Qalandar had died many years before the death of Shaikh Nizamuddin Auliya of DelhiLutfullah (talk) 13:27, 14 February 2008 (UTC)Lutfullah —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lutfullah (talk • contribs) 13:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
