Talk:Bruce Hornsby

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Good article Bruce Hornsby has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bruce Hornsby article.
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Contents

[edit] Biographical information and trivia section

Added more biographical information; created a "trivia" section; added external link.

[edit] The Range/Grateful Dead

I've tried very hard to provide relevant details in THE RANGE section about Bruce's collaboration with the Dead (which seems to be an ongoing controversy on THE GRATEFUL DEAD Wikipedia page). I also Krazychris81 (talk) 00:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)feel that Bruce's own opting to focus on his solo work (having been invited by Lesh and Garcia in 1990 to be a full time member) suggests that the Dead role in the initial paragraph should be minimized, as I have attempted to do...the details provided as accurately as possible later. There are more important things about Hornsby than his role in the Dead, although they certainly serve as an important influence (one among many). If citations are needed for my additions (perhaps I am less-adept at Wiki than others), that is fine, but my additions strive towards truth and are well-informed. Taking quotes out of context (i.e., "most of the time sit in player" for 1990-92, when Bruce played EVERY show with them for those dates...although he evidently ought not to be called a "member" of the band) is not helping to improve this page. Controversies within the Dead family about how Hornsby should be classified SHOULD NOT become part of Hornsby's page. Edits like the recent ones by Hu12 are uninformed and are making the page less-accurate...just because there is a citation doesn't make the information definitive or correct. Educate yourself before removing edits, because it is very frustrating to have to add them back...


[edit] Regarding image request

I've been attempting to add images to this page for weeks. All of them, for one reason or another, have been immediately contested and removed. I wish anyone who is brave enough, or who has enough time to deal with the anti-Image-Upload Wikipedia Inquisition, best of luck in finding images for upload. BoaTeeth 02:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I've found a solution. Snidleysnide 16:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The images should be here to stay. Snidleysnide 22:37, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

That's good to hear. Good for you. BoaTeeth 02:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA

I've failed this article for GA status. The writing needs a decent amount of work. There are lots of often long quotations from Hornsby himself to the point that it's interfering with the continuity of the article. The trivia section needs to go. Important and relevant information should be merged to the main article body, and everything else should be removed completely. The Current Projects / Recent News should be converted to prose. There's still lots of unsourced information that comes across as OR. For example, "The jazz feelings that peppered the previous album would be expanded on here, intermingling with bluegrass, giving the album a constant uptempo party sound." ShadowHalo 05:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I've made efforts to address these concerns as well as others brought up in follow-up conversations on talk pages. Preparing to re-nominate article for GA. Snidleysnide 23:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
This article looks to be in a lot better shape now compared to when I reviewed it. Here are some improvements to make before someone reviews the article:
  • "In 1984 he formed Bruce Hornsby and the Range" WP:MUSTARD generally recommends against linking lone years like this one.
  • The {{cite web}} templates are incomplete. At the very least, it should include the URL, the title of the link, the publisher, and the retrieval date. As appropriate, it should also include the author, date of publication, issue number, etc.
  • The album titles that are in the captions should be italicized.
  • Since there's now a Bruce Hornsby discography article, it'd probably be best to move the singles to that page and have the albums on both articles.
  • The free images look like they should be tagged with {{PD-author}} instead of {{PD-because}}.
  • While you're replacing the templates, you may want to tag them with {{Copy to Wikimedia Commons}} (or move them to the Commons yourself). While this isn't a requirement for GA, it'll allow editors of the five Hornsby articles on other language Wikipedias to use the images.
Hope this helps some. ShadowHalo 18:28, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Made all corrections suggested, although I did leave the "in music" links for the first mentioning of each year. I figure those can be easily removed later, and certainly if it becomes a GA/not-GA issue. I removed the repeated "in music" links for repeated years, though. Reformatted all citations as per your suggestion, and I fixed everything else...thanks. Snidleysnide 21:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redundant links

I'm going through the article and removing redundant links. If anyone objects to this, please let me know, but it sure seems like a good idea. (For instance, the section "Hornsby & the Grateful Dead" contained 12 separate wikilinks to Grateful Dead. I reduced it to one.) I'm leaving all the text intact, just removing links (or disambiguating them, as needed). --Wayne Miller 15:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems like a good idea to me. I had created a lot of those links, but only because I've been editing the text pretty thoroughly...I was planning to go back through and remove some, if not all, of the redundant links. Thanks for taking care of it! Snidleysnide 18:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
You're welcome! I enjoy doing maintenance tasks like this so other people can just add content and not worry about them. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking some obvious reason the links needed to be there.  :) This is a really nice article, by the way, GA or no GA. --Wayne Miller 19:36, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the kind remarks about the article. And thanks for your continued edits, much appreciated. Snidleysnide 20:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations / Links

I've been going through the references recently, consolidating them and formatting them using the citation templates. I ended up moving one reference, BruceBase: Bruce Hornsby Set Lists, to the External links section. The link simply invites the user to look up a setlist for any given date -- it's not really possible to get a permanent link to a particular show (or range of shows, which is what the ref was trying to do). Fortunately, there's another reference backing up the same bit of text. FYI. --Wayne Miller 12:27, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Wayne. I was trying to cut and paste the url to that exact show, but, evidently it didn't work. I had meant to go back and check that...I'm glad you thought to check it. I like idea of putting the BruceBase in the Links section, too, by the way. Snidleysnide 20:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm done formatting the citations. (Whew.) I did change one, currently #37. The purpose of the citation is to establish that Ricky Scaggs & Bruce Hornsby spent several weeks at #1 on the Billboard Bluegrass chart. The link (http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/charts/currentalbum.jsp) unfortunately required registration to get to the vital stats. I ended up replacing it with a press release (http://www.shorefire.com/index.php?a=pressrelease&o=970) that basically states the same thing. If anyone objects, we can put it back to the way it was. --Wayne Miller 21:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
You did a great job, Wayne. Good call with the Billboard citation, too...I didn't realize that a sign-in was required (I think the computer I mainly use must auto-login at that website). Thanks for all of your help. Snidleysnide 21:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questions

The Lead should be three succint paragraphs (without citations) as all the info in the Lead should be in the article.

Fixed this. Snidleysnide 21:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
  • What are "fraternity ragers"?
Paraphrased to try to fix this Snidleysnide 21:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
  • "three years writing for 20th Century Fox". What did they write, and for which films?
I cannot locate any specifics about what & for which...but I feel like the referenced part should stay for now.Snidleysnide 21:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
  • "Hornsby is the second of three sons born to Lois (Saunier) and Robert S. Hornsby, who was a successful oil and real estate executive in Williamsburg, Virginia. The other sons, Robert "Bobby" Jr., and John Hornsby, are reputable musicians in their own right". Reference?
I didn't add this, and I cannot find a reference, so I've deleted this for now.
  • "The wave of fame continued to roll"... Oh dear...
Oh dear is right. Sorry to have missed that. That wasn't my edit. Deleted now. Snidleysnide 21:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
  • There are sentences in "Range years" about The Grateful Dead/Garcia that should be moved. The Grateful Dead are also mentioned in "The solo records" section.
  • Shouldn't there be a "Session musican" section?
Responded to these two on your talk page. Kind of complicated to resolve. Snidleysnide 21:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm a fan by the way, so don't take this as being unkind. egde 17:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Responses are indentedSnidleysnide 21:08, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA passed

This is an excellent article on an imminently deserving subject. It is generally well-written and flows smoothly, although it is frequently too wordy and in places too detailed. It looks to be accurate and well-sourced, although some of the sources, particularly the ones used for characterizing individual songs and albums (particularly songfacts.com, but to a lesser extent the All Music Guide reviews as well) would probably not pass muster for a Featured Article. It's definitely broad enough in coverage for Good Article status, although I would expect more on Hornsby's personal life before the last paragraph for FA status. At times the language tends toward gushing, but it is just neutral enough at this stage. It is appropriately illustrated, and stable. Very nice work; this article is within range of Featured Article status with some improvement of the weak sources, some fairly simply language cleanup, and some moderate editing to make the prose more concise.--ragesoss 06:07, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Congratulations

Congrats on the GA. This article is in good hands. egde 16:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Emotional About Him

I kind of like Bruce, but I LOVE his music. Sadly, I have felt jealous of him because I had thought people liked him better than anybody has ever liked or cared about me alone. Cbsteffen 03:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)Cbsteffen

[edit] Article still needs work

I'm not a Hornsby fan, just interested in looking him up, and I found this article too detailed, as well as oddly written. I see from the comments that it's been improved, but it's still not quite there. The giveaway is the excessive use of adjectives like "excellent," "highly regarded," etc, which don't have much of a place in an encyclopedia article, as well as awkward constructions like "from which he graduated." It needs additional, firm editing by a non-fan. 68.81.114.143 02:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I've read carefully through the article and I cannot find "excellent" or "highly regarded" anywhere in the text. "From which he graduated" seems to suggest that he attended all three schools, but only graduated from the last one listed...that's the correct grammatical construction, if that's what was intended. In terms of details, the guy's been around for 20 years...check other articles by folks with 20 year (and running) careers to compare length. The details, from what I understand, and the thoroughness of the article are what helped it to meet Good Arts Article status...if you have complaints about articles being long, it's probably best to use the very easy-to-click index that appears at the top of each sectioned Wikipedia article. It's a convenient way to move to the information that you want. 71.176.209.242 23:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the second anonymous user's assessment. Learn to use the article contents, man. 141.166.176.233 20:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor change to the description of "The Way It Is"

I changed the sentence where it says "the song hit a note because of economic decline in the early to mid-1980s" to read "perceived economic decline"...whatever people thought of this song and the economy at the time, the vast majority of economic statistics were positive.Krazychris81 (talk) 00:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)