Wikipedia:British Isles

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This proposal has failed to attain consensus within the Wikipedia community. A failed proposal is one for which a consensus to accept is not present after a reasonable amount of time, and seems unlikely to form, regardless of continuing discussion.

[edit] Scope

This proposal covers the use of the term "British Isles" in Wikipedia.

The problem, in a nutshell is this:

• The term "British Isles" is offensive to many Irish people, who object to the labelling of Ireland as "British."
• There is no equivalent term that unambiguously describes the whole archipelago including Great Britain and Ireland.

The problem is compounded by:

• The extreme importance attached to the use of the term "British Isles" by people on both sides of the Irish Sea, and sometimes elsewhere, and
• Careless and unthinking use of the term "British Isles", often without noticing the difficulties inherent in its use.
• Risk of confusion with the (UK) legal term "British Islands".
• The word "Ireland" can mean either the island or the state of that name. (Note that "The Republic of" is a description of its constitutional status, not its name).
• The Channel Islands, though not part of the archipelago, are regarded by many in Britain as part of the British Isles.
  • And this list is further compounded by being a part of the general ignorance of the complex terminology involved in the region's geography.

The purpose of this proposal is to:

• Provide guidance about the use of the term "British Isles",
• Clarify difficulties with some potential replacements for the term "British Isles",
• Encourage avoidance of the term in newly written material, and
• Encourage a relaxed and tolerant atmosphere in evaluating existing material.

[edit] Proposal

• The use of the term "British Isles" is contentious. As a result, its use in new prose should be avoided where possible, as likely to cause needless offense. Often there are better equivalents which could be used instead, and editors are urged to consider whether language which is not politically charged might be a better substitute. Sometimes, however, "British Isles" is the only or the best term to use.

• There is unfortunately no other term which describes the entire archipelago. If there were, it would be a simple matter to substitute. For those who live there, "these islands" is a particularly nice substitute, but obviously it isn't workable in Wikipedia.

• There are some common circumlocutions which cannot be simply substituted for "British Isles", but may be appropriate in particular cases.

• • The term "Great Britain and Ireland" is sometimes seen. It is sometimes used to refer only to the two islands in question, and sometimes to the archipelago as a whole. Because it is ambiguous, it is best avoided, except when precision is unimportant. Tb (talk) 23:19, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

• • The term "United Kingdom and Ireland" is almost right. But the Crown dependencies of the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom; they are independently subject to the British crown. This term should therefore only be used in political contexts where the reference is specifically to those two states. In matters where the Crown dependencies share administration with the UK (for example, in foreign policy), the term "United Kingdom and Ireland" might be appropriately used. Be careful to understand the ins and outs of Crown dependency status before doing so: the UK is responsible for the defense of the Crown dependencies, but they are not members of the EU, and so forth. Further, this term is anachronistic when used in contexts before the formation of the UK.

• • The term "British Isles and Ireland" is problematic for two reasons. Just as it is often offensive to the Irish to include Ireland as part of the "British Isles," this term implies the opposite. When the goal is to avoid causing offense, it is no good to just reverse the offense. This is particularly important because Northern Ireland is a part of the UK. Moreover, "British Isles and Ireland" will invite unaware editors to remove "and Ireland", thinking it is redundant.

• • Remember that "outside the British Isles" is not the same as "on continental Europe" (there are other islands associated with Europe, and whole continents like Africa which are outside the British Isles but not on continental Europe).

• • Some text from the 1911 Encyclopedia Brittania uses language like "abroad", which has been changed on Wikipedia to be "outside the British Isles" or other such phrases. A word like "abroad" is of course no good, and such a change is necessary, but unfortunately, "outside the British Isles" is no better. Generally further work is necessary to figure out what the correct geographical reference is.

• • The term "British Islands and Ireland" is legally correct: "British Islands" includes both the UK and the Crown dependencies. "Ireland" is the name of the state. It may sound stilted to some readers and offensive to people in Northern Ireland.

• • There are some neologisms which could be used in restricted contexts, for example, the "Islands of the North Atlantic" or the "British-Irish Isles". These have the difficulty of being unclear on first reading, and generally unsuitable for a general encyclopedia.

• Use of "British Isles" is acceptable in geographical, biological, zoological, etc. contexts when describing characteristics generally shared. For example, it is appopriate to refer to the weather or climate of the British Isles, or the fauna or languages of the British Isles. Be careful, however, that the statements made are genuinely true of the archipelago. If the statement is really only about Great Britain and its nearby islands, then say that, rather than "British Isles." It is appropriate to refer to the English language as it is spoken in the British Isles, but only if one is genuinely talking about features in common between England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland at the least; if the point is really about the language in England proper alone, then say "England". Don't assume without justification that what is true for England must be true for the whole archipelago, and be sensitive to regional differences.

• In historical contexts, use terms appropriate to the time in question. Note that the term "British Isles" first appears in English in the late 16th century. It is controversial whether the Roman "Britannia" referred to only Great Britain or to the whole archipelago (the province only referred to roughly modern England). England, Scotland, and Ireland, in particular, were not politically united at all for most of their history: they were one United Kingdom only for about 120 years, and it is anachronistic to write as if they were politically or culturally united at other times.

• In political contexts, use terms descriptive of political realities for the time in question. The only time in which the British Isles were anything like a united state was the roughly 120 years of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Even during that time, the political entity should be referred to as the "United Kingdom" (or the longer name, when necessary for clarity), and "British Isles" should be avoided, as not properly descriptive of the political reality. (And, as noted above, even then, Man and the Channel Islands were not part of the UK.)

• It is not good to have wars about linguistic issues on Wikipedia. The above guidelines are guidelines for new prose, or rewritten prose. They should not be imposed on existing articles as attempts to "clean them up." Stability is an independently valuable goal. If a factually true statement is made using the term "British Isles", generally leave it alone. Approach the issue the way the difference between American and British spelling is approached: keep consistency within articles, be factually correct, but don't alter existing text to conform to the way you want it to be. Make changes if the existing text is incorrect, not just because the term "British Isles" could have been avoided but wasn't.