Talk:British National Front

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Contents

[edit] Title

Just a note to say that this organization is officially called the British National Front, so listing under "National Front (UK) is wholly unnecessary, and having the article under British National Front removes the need for a country in parentheses and confusion arising from other groups' bearing the name 'National Front'. Brown Eagle 01:23, Apr 3, 2004 (UTC) Incorrect -the NF is officially registered as "National Front" (See Electoral Commission).

I'd say it's still desirable, though. "British National Front" is pretty obscure -- it doesn't even make it onto UK ballot papers, which preserve in aspic "Conservative and Unionist" and "Labour and Co-operative" in some cases. The WP policy seems to be 'official name unless common usage is different', which could be a tad more rigourlessly expressed, but in this case "National Front" is overwhelmingly the 'popular' usage. I'll wait for comments before perpetrating a move, though. Alai 07:17, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would have to agree with the latter thought. The common name for the political organization is The National Front, and not the British National Front. Also, the appearance of the National Front in N. Ireland pushes for the treatment and necessity of having it be the National Front (United Kingdom). However, that is just how I see things best set for navigation.

I'd like to suggest a paragraph or two on the aims and manifesto of the NF. I recall last time I was on this site that there was such a paragraph and that it included the NF's goal of creating a Distributionist system to replace the arrantly flawed Capitalist one. Why was this paragraph removed? Could it be that the NF's (unique) goal of a Distributionist society is one-hundred times more socialist than warped 'socialism' actually is, and thereby this showed the NF in a light other than the Nazi image this twisted system likes to label them as? Just a thought...

[edit] Accounts

The accounts filed with the Electoral Commission are rather odd to my eye. Would probably make sense if I were an accountant - which I'm not. Can anyone have a look at [1] and see if they can decode it? Just seems to show bank balances with no idea of turnover. Morwen - Talk 19:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Win Elections?

Sounds like they've never won an election; could we have a clear statement of how many if any?
--Jerzy•t 01:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not believe any acting NF member has ever been elected. Recently, sadly, we have had a fair few BNP councillors elected, but the NF never managed it. Back in the 1970's two far-right councillors were elected in in Blackburn, but these were members of the splinter breakaway "National Party" rather than the NF. The National Party presented itself as more moderate than the NF, just as the BNP does today. After a young Asian man was murdered, National Party leader John Kingsley Read commented "One down - a million to go." Very moderate you see, just like our modern day BNP. -BJG 6.6.06

It should be noted that Kingsley Read always denied the charge, which was made by members of the Anti Nazi League on a tip off from members of the Tyndallite NF - strange bedfellows indeed. Kingsley Read later quit politics & became a well respected community activist before his rather early death: upon which Searchlight claimed he was one of their moles during his NF years all along! Whether this was true or not will now never be known (certainly Gable & Co have never proffered a shred of evidence to substantiate their claim), but it certainly provided a bizarre twist Mark Boyle Talk 19:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The NF has never won an actual election - however they did have one councillor elected in 1975. This was to Carrickfergus Town Council in Northern Ireland, where there were more seats than actual candidates. There was also two Conservative Party councillors in Wandsworth - one being later Tory notable Athlene O'Connell - who defected to the NF temporarily in 1967. This latter business was surrounded with much skulduggery, as accusations flew later that O'Connell's return to the Tories was to act as a mole Mark Boyle Talk 20:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ian Myars?

I've removed the claim that Ian Myars "founded" the NF. I for one have never heard of this character within the ranks of the League of Empire Loyalists, the old BNP, the Racial Preservation Society, or anywhere else for that matter! He doesn't even appear as one of the LOEL or BNP negotiators during the talks to create the party.

It's solid fact that A K Chesterton founded the NF, and indeed was responsible for most of the moving, shaking and financing to unite the various far-right groups to create it in the first place. Mark Boyle Talk 20:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GrumpyTroll on International Third Position

Just a warning that User:GrumpyTroll several times tried trolling the International Third Position entry, putting left-wing instead of right-wing to describe the BNF. i have now put in far right which is from the summary on this entry, the BNF entry. If someone seriously wants to claim that the BNF is left wing, let them do it here with appropriate references and then see what NPOV results. Boud 19:04, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

The otherside of the argument is: The national front are a party that claims to stand up for the working class, I think that sounds like a left wing party to me although they are fundimentaly a fascist party. Just because a party is fascist does not mean they are right wing. The national front are a contridiction in terms, they are a authoritarian left wing party.

"they are a authoritarian left wing party" -what utter nonsense. Are you thereby claiming them to be in someway Marxist/Communist? I propose that the NF are neither far-right or left-wing: thay lie somewhere in the middle, which is occupied by the label "Nationalism". For evidence please see their manifesto regarding the economy: they would replace Capitalism with Distribuionism -which is far more Socialist than Socialism is. See also their adherence to Proportional Representation -what kind of authoritarian party expouses P.R? Switch on, people and do the job correctly. -RD

[edit] National Front Disco

Why was this bit removed? It was definately relevant.82.69.80.20

        • Don't ask me Anon! A disgrunted Morrissey fan perhaps? I wonder what they'd say if they knew Morrissey had wanted it to be a single but his record company refused? Well done on adding it back in, however I have corrected the bit about the UAF fiasco - though big enough to add his signature to their launch letter, afraid old Morrissey is understandably wary of anything involving the SWP - having picketted his concerts in the past & tried to intimidate fans going in, hardly surprising. Mark Boyle Talk 16:00, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Okey dokey. And Morrissey is hardly old. He's 47!82.69.80.20

[edit] Election statistics

I know a bit about the early years of the NF, and its fascist predecessors, but sort of lost track of their activities around 1980. So, I've been looking into elections and have managed to come up with a list for each General Election since 1970 in which the NF took part (using mostly Wikipeda articles in the series United Kingdom general election, 1970 and so on. I wanted to compile a table showing number of NF candidates, total vote, % vote, but have a slight problem from this page.

In the section "The National Democrats name change" it states there were 12 candidates at the 2005 General Election. A little further on, in "The current NF" it says there were 13 candidates in the 2005 General Election. A clear discrepancy, but it gets worse. The second reference goes on to say they received 8,079 votes. Here's the problem: Wiki article United Kingdom general election, 2005 table of results does not list the NF, or any party scoring 8,079.

Can anyone clear this up?

Emeraude 14:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Just got the details from the Electoral Commission website. It is 13 candidates. I will correct the article. Emeraude 15:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Collapse of the ANL

"for the Anti-Nazi League collapsed in early 1979 amid claims of financial impropriety"

A 'fact' not reffered to on the ANL page, a page which indicates that group went on for some time after 1979.

Er...if you want the truth about the history of the Anti-Nazi League, the last place you should look at is an ANL or Socialist Workers Party source! Let's just say they give the British far right a good run for their money in the selective memory & historical revisionism stakes! :)
The ANL's chequered history - which is NOT appropriate in a page about the NF's history except en passent, can easily be checked by reference to newspaper microfiche/DVD ROM files in umpteen libraries, particularly after the 1979 collapse (which considering the funds raised by "Rock Against Racism" was a nasty shock). The organisation has appeared on-and-off from time to time since then, and been wound up on each occasion with little correlation to far-right levels of activity. Sad to say I would treat Wiki entries on the ANL/SWP with a pinch of salt, as they tend to be both "PR cleansed" by SWP members & vandalised by opponents on a regular basis.
There is some debate as to whether the ANL's real purpose was as an SWP "copycat" for Tariq Ali's tiny but highly influential International Marxist Group, whose members took a "robust" anti-fascist/anti-racist stance (eg. the Red Lion Square demonstation). Ironically, Tariq Ali was later to join up with former NF Directorate member Rodney Legg in the fight for the rights of the people of Tyneham against the British Army (ah, but that's another story!) Mark_Boyle 17th November 2006

Leaders

Both Anthony Reed-Herbert (1974) and Aidan Mackey (1970) were chairmen of the NF (albeit briefly) when the previous chairmen resigned. This is according to the Martin Walker book. What do people think about including them in the list of leaders? Finnophile.

[edit] Return of neo-Nazi sock puppet

Note that User:24.203.217.170 is a neo-Nazi from Montreal who has used several accounts and IP addressses and has been banned from editing Wikipedia. Keep in mind that his edits to this article are likely motivated by his political/racial POV.Spylab 20:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

"Keep in mind that his edits to this article are likely motivated by his political/racial" -what, you mean like Wikipedia's? For those with a background knowledge of the National Front together with a scutinising eye, it is clear that you editors managing this site are twisting the truth and subliminally entering discreditable text and being remiss with facts and details. It seems to me you are no better than the twisted Indy ("independent") news website, which is tantamount to a pretty colouring book for use only by Marxist silly little boys and girls that are scared of someone disagreeing with them. The TRUTH is something which, like all supposed 'Left-wingers', they are devoid of. I don't want an argument but if you feel you can justify Wikipedias neutral stance, then please feel free to email me: subric@hotmail.co.uk I wait in earnest and defy you to refute what I've said here above (I have evidence, where's yours?) Good day to you all... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.195.236.65 (talk) 10:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, now you've upset him, Spylab! :) Actually I would say the entry for the NF has largely been very good, giving a far broader sweep to its history, personalities, influences & effects than most people have the opportunity to glean from elsewhere. There are of course the occasional mutton-heads from the far-left & the far-right trying to vandalise in accordance with their own testosterone drenched "platforms", but I would say that it has been easier to maintain a sense of perspective on this page as opposed to, for example, the pages for the British Social Democratic Party or the continuing Liberal Party! Mark Boyle 21:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Phil Andrews, the NF, and the Isleworth Community Group

I've undone Vivonot's edits, which to be charitable seem to indicate he does not know much about the subject matter in hand!

Phil Andrews, his NF past, and his work with the ICG are hardly a secret. I've put in one link, but a casual visit to any library with back issue of Searchlight (any port in a storm!), Martin Buford's book Amongst The Thugs, or the various works of Larry O'Hara will see a smattering of name-drops about Phil Andrews former views and activities.

Or alternatively, here it is, straight from the horse's mouth:

"I was a member of the National Front between 1977 and 1989, and of the International Third Position between 1989 and 1991, before rejecting their racist and right-wing policies, publicly and repeatedly. I have been an outspoken opponent of racism and fascism ever since." [1]

As I understand it, Phil is somewhat sick to death of having his NF/ITP past dragged up every election ad nauseum. Mark Boyle (talk) 20:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

  1. ^ http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:zKbzfCKVOG8J:boroughwatch.blogspot.com/2006/04/fact-or-fiction.html+phil+andrews+national+front&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8
Mark, firstly my username is spelt "Vivenot". Secondly, you should not be so patronising! I made my edits as there were no references cited linking Phil Andrews' departure from the NF and policy of standing as an independent to the NF's obtaining the Green Book. Now that you have provided a reference, I am happy for the text to stand. --Vivenot 14:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
"Vivenot" sunbeam, you asked to be patronised. Everytime there is some fleeting reference to the far right within the British media, you can happily put your house on some self-styled "anti-fascist" or "British nationalist" type waltzing in & doing half a dozen edits based on what they read 5 minutes earlier in Searchlight, The Flame, The Sun, etc. If you haven't a clue about the topic, keep out of editing it and leave it to those Wiki moderators that are clued up enough to know when to step in & when not to. Mark Boyle (talk) 18.30, 05 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Political activites

Here is a vid that shows that as of late the NF is as active as it was in the 70's and 80's http://youtube.com/watch?v=4gkNusLZgZ8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by WhiteTiger86 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Nowhere near as active as they were in the 1970s/80s! This one small bunch of thugs is nothing like the massive demonstrations they organised then. Where are the hundreds of election candidates? Emeraude (talk) 18:56, 25 January 2008 (UTC)