Talk:Brian Epstein

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	Brian Epstein has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
April 21, 2007 Good article nominee Listed

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[edit] GA pass

This article is well written, broad, informative, and is filled with references. I do have one small concern, though, and that is that the McCartney quote in the introduction really ought to be cited. Besides that, I'm passing this article for GA. ErleGrey 23:12, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article

What more can one say? andreasegde 01:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

Any edit made without a verifiable reference will be deleted, including edits that are slipped into referenced sentences, BTW. --andreasegde (talk) 08:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Isaac Epstein

Does anyone have more information regarding Brian’s grandfather, Isaac? I know he was a Russian immigrant, and arrived in Liverpool with his sister. He opened his first shop in Walton Road and presumably lived above it at first. I would be interested in knowing where he then lived etc. Thanks, --Patthedog (talk) 12:10, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Patthedog knows this now, but other editors should know that Epstein's father was from Hodan, Lithuania.--andreasegde (talk) 00:09, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Brakn has unearthed a census that says Isaac and Rachael Epstein were born in Russia, although I have seen Lithuania mentioned a few times on the net and in books.--andreasegde (talk) 21:41, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Got it: "In 1795, the joint state was dissolved by the third Partition of the Commonwealth, which forfeited its lands to Russia, Prussia and Austria, under duress. Over ninety percent of Lithuania was incorporated into the Russian Empire and the remainder into Prussia." From the Lithuania article.

Good work Andreasegde & Brakn! Just one more thing (sorry). 80 Walton Road was the address of the shop that he opened (the current wording suggests that they later moved to another premises to open the shop - we still don‘t know where Isaac first stayed in Liverpool) so I’ll change the wording to reflect this. Also, (ok, that’s two things) I’m intrigued by the revelation that Hyman was Dinah’s maiden name. Their son, Harry, also married a Hyman. Was there a connection? "So what?" I can hear others thinking! I know this is an article about Brian, but I hate loose ends.--Patthedog (talk) 09:05, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, a very charming and interesting picture is beginning to emerge from all of this. One possible scenario could be: Isaac arrives in Liverpool with his sister from Russia. That would have been some journey - and by all accounts that I have read - they were penniless, and neither spoke any English. There were other Epsteins in Liverpool according to Brakn, so possibly they were able to initially stay with them. Then we have to skip a short period of time, and Isaac is now married and has his own furniture shop - that’s pretty good going! His wife, Dinah Hyman, is second generation English, and is from a relatively wealthy Russian immigrant family who have an established furniture business in Manchester. It’s unlikely they would have met by chance - that would have been a long hike in those days - so, it’s probable that Isaac and Dinah were introduced, get married, and then money is made available by her family to finance a business. This was probably a loan or a gift, as his furniture shop grew as an independent venture. We don’t know if Isaac was involved in the furniture trade before coming to England (do we?), but he certainly is now! Later, it’s quite possible that their son, Harry, was encouraged to follow in the same footsteps, as this sort of thing was quite common in those days, and he also marries a Hyman. There you have it in a nutshell! --Patthedog (talk) 13:07, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Epstein's mother was registered as Minnie Hyman in 1914 and married as Minnie/Queenie in 1933 and died as Minnie/Malka so really Malka was not her official name.

Brian had two aunts that I know of; Leah born in 1912 and Stella Queenie born in 1923. Leah married John Casson in Liverpool in 1931. (I think) She was also called Lily. Stella Queenie married Myer Julius Canter in Southport in 1948. Myer became a prominent lawyer in Liverpool and was also from a Russian background.

Brakn (talk) 17:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Great to have Stella confirmed as Aunt. I have tried to contact her daughter, Angela (lives in the U.S.) on a genealogy website - to no avail so far! Thanks.--Patthedog (talk) 18:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I think her granddaughter lives here. Brakn (talk) 19:15, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm you may already know that. I think she has a Bebo site. Brakn (talk) 19:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Is “here” U.S. or U.K.? Not explored the Bebo site. Do you have more info on that? Cheers.--Patthedog (talk) 19:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I reckon UK but you'd have to email me. As for the Epsteins, I would think if someone should get Isaac's marriage cert just to tidy it up; but then you straying into The Epstein family and stuff that is probably not common knowledge but still interesting. Brakn (talk) 10:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

From somewhere, I have Isaac & Dinah marrying in 1900 in Manchester. Is this correct, as far as you’re aware? If so, I’ll try and retrieve their marriage certificate.--Patthedog (talk) 12:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

You will have to go to this site http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ then register and order the certificate with a credit card.
Details:- Epstein, Issac - Hyman, Dinah
Date - Mar 1900
District - Prestwich
Volume 8d
Page 479
and that's it. If it's not possible for you to do that let me know and I'll do it for you. best of luck. Brakn (talk) 09:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

O.K. Done that. I’ll let you know when it arrives.Cheers, --Patthedog (talk) 12:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A little bit here and there

I know I'm on a break, but I found some interesting things about Epstein that I just had to put in, especially this: "Brian earned £5 per week starting pay at his parent's furniture store. On his first day on the job he sold a £12 dining room table to a woman who wanted a mirror", which is hilarious. :))--andreasegde (talk) 16:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)