User talk:Brett epic

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Hello Brett epic! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking Image:Wikisigbutton.png or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! IsleScapeTalk 11:39, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Room for improvement

Brett, I am putting this message at the end of the page because it is the common pratice on Wikipedia. Also, makes easier to follow messages and replies in a thread. For your interest, you may want to join the team at WP:International Development that has plenty of information for a kick start. Although my edit interests have slightly diverted over time but would be glad to be around. And I agree with you that many aspects on co-ops and rural development etc need attention. You can even create many new pages in the areas of your expertise. --IsleScapeTalk 19:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Credit Union History

Hi Brett! Welcome to wikipedia, and thank you for taking up the cause of Credit Union history. I intended to work on it a while back, but haven't found the time, nor am I an expert on it. You've already got more info than I know about, and it's great that you've got a global perspective on it. If you can edit down the current history section of Credit Unions to a brief summary, that would be great. Keep up the good work! --Mmpartee 03:28, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Brett (I'm not good at conversation on wikipedia yet, I assume this is a good place to answer your question on my talk page?) Anyway, to answer your question about "modern" in terms of credit unions, the reason I say this is that the concept of neighbors pooling money to provide financing for each other is probably about as old as dirt, or at least as old as the concept of money. But whether or not such activity can be called a 'credit union' in the modern sense of the word would be up for debate. I'm not an expert in this area, but I think I've read somewhere to this effect. hope this is helpful! --Mmpartee (talk) 19:49, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey Brett, I see that you are in Toronto - very cool. I visited there for the first time last fall. I just wanted to tell you about a recent event we just had at America's Credit Union Museum called BarCampBank NewEngland. (http://barcamp.org/BarCampBankNewEngland ). We even had a fellow Ontario-native attend. I didn't think to check wikipedia for others to invite, or else I would have extended the invitation to you also. If you want to connect, I'm on Facebook. I'm about to start a new wikipedia entry that you may be interested in. --Mmpartee (talk) 15:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Howdy

Hi Brett! Based on you editing interests, I just have to ask. Are you a Kiva lender? Also, if you like editing here, take a look at considering joining us Kivapedians and Kiva Friends. :-) Regards, RichardF 19:16, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Richard! Actually I'm a Kiva-skeptic. There's a lot of evidence that external credit actually harms poor people by undermining local incentives to provide them with quality micro-savings services. Most poor people need savings -- for health care, education and asset accumulation -- far more than they need loans. Poor people's savings is more patient capital, it's more stable, it does more for the local economy, and it helps poor people to build their own institutions. Take a look at Microcredit/Criticism (second paragraph).
This probably isn't what you wanted to hear. For the record, I share a lot of your other interests in development, so let's stay in touch!Brett epic 19:37, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey Richard what is a wiki portal, anyway?Brett epic 20:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Woo-Hoo! A portal is a doorway to Wikipedia! ;-) A good place to start is the List of portals. The "fancy" ones are called Featured portals. I list the one's I've managed to take to featured portal status on my user page. Obviously, that's how I spend most of my time here these days. :-) I started The Sustainable development Portal because I wanted a place to showcase the Kiva article (the article sucks, but you get the idea ;-). I tried finding enough content for a portal on "microfinance" or "international development," but it really didn't "work" until I expanded out to "sustainable development." I'm a "systems thinker" by inclination and "social justice" old fart by scar tissue, so I can relate to your frustrations, although you're obviously more of a seasoned war horse than I (my background is more of community mental health and education - more losses than wins in those fights). From a "sustainable development" perspective, I'm still very optimistic about the potential of the Internet to leverage ways to help poor folks help themselves. Let's keep an eye on things to help guide them in the right direction. ;-) RichardF 21:12, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

How many articles do you need, by the way, to feed a portal (you have me thinking ...)? As for the internet -- such a powerful tool, but so elusive in the battle against poverty. I do dream of a day when it's possible to do very useful things online using an interface that includes no words. We've got a ways to go still :)

I like to have at least 10 each "good" articles, pictures and biographies (preferably 20) before I start a portal. You can start one with fewer basic items, but that means the scope/coverage really isn't sufficient/noteworthy enough to be a solid featured portal contender. I think it's probably possible to do one on microfinance, but I concluded from a little feasibility study I did (actually creating a "first draft"), that even the international development topic was too weak on Wikipedia to warrant a portal. An alternative would be to pick a few articles, make them "portal worthy" and then add them to Sustainable development. If something like that interests you, I can show you how to include them when they're ready. :-)

Thanks for all your comments Richard! I appreciate the time you're taking with me!
When it comes to getting articles 'portal-ready' I'd love to help with some of the microfinance ones (though some (especially microcredit) seem almost beyond repair :(. I know eventually as I keep writing I'm going to have to deal with the problem of copyright for photos and try to insert more graphics. Do you know any shortcuts?Brett epic 02:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree many of the articles on this topic suck. "Un"/fortunately, I'm much better at the "no words" part of wikilife (e.g., portal design) than I am at the words part. You really can't get around copyright issues here. For words, you can paraphrase. For images, you're pretty much stuck with playing by the rules. Know anyone with a good digital camera?

Since you're a newbie with portals, here's a tip you might not know yet. Go to Sustainable development then click on Show new selections It will randomly change what shows in all of the "Selected..." and "DYK" boxes! To see where they're coming from, click on the "...Archive/Nominations" links at the lower left-hand corner of each box. That's how you can see what articles, pics, etc., already are included with the portal. If you have a good prospect or two to add to any of these sections, let me know when they're ready to go in and I'll make sure all the adjustments are made to have them randomly/magically appear! ;-) RichardF 03:36, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Richard -- I like the sustainable development portal. Very nicely laid out! I hope I can help you on the content side of this in future!Brett epic 16:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Cool, I'm sure it's just a matter of time! By the way, you now are an authority at Kiva Friends. :-) RichardF 17:58, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I admire your approach Richard -- I hope your chats at Kiva lead to something useful! Brett epic 21:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Stay tuned. ;-) RichardF 23:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your contributions!

Hi Brett -- this is Ramón. Richard alerted me to your page and contributions here on Wikipedia-- great! I wrote a response at Kivafriends regarding a shift in focus from Microfinance to Microsavings. I think the objective is noble, but I think that growing people's net worth in developing countries mainly means increasing people's non-monetary assets there. Having lived in Latin America, people distrust both the banking system and the monetary system (especially if it's not in dollars/euros) since both have let them down in the past and caused them to lose all of their savings. Therefore, poor people see money merely as a way to obtain or convert assets rather than a way to create value for them. Solutions? Well-- major improvements in governability is one of them. Creating value for assets beyond their utilitarian value is another. (ah-- yes I may have been influenced a bit by Hernando de Soto...) I think until this trust issue is addressed, poor people in developing countries may be more interested in Microcredit as a way to invest to increase their assets and less in actual monetary savings. And increasing this trust will take lots of time... I'm going to read your Cambodia article-- we may have lots of ideas in common! BTW-- I am not an economist (I'm a telecom engineer), but I *am* an analytical thinker that likes to ponder about these issues. I'm also a Kiva enthusiast as you may have guessed... Thanks for all your contributions! It's great to have a discussion about this, make people think, develop ideas and opinions, and ACT ON THEM. Ramonk 11:26, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Ramón -- I have done very little work in Latin America, but it sounds from what you say very much like the context in much of Asia. The problem of trust, lost savings from the banking system etc. -- very familiar! Very much a perpetuator of poverty.
As a big de Soto fan myself, I don't want to be misunderstood either. I am not denying that in some settings the prospects for building strong institutions can be so remote that 'relief' (through externally funded microcredit for those who know how to play the game well enough to access it) may be the best we can hope for in the forseeable future. (Though I also find far too many donors and practititioners using that argument as an excuse for engaging in superficial, relief-style interventions rather than taking on the much tougher development ones.) Even for those people who do gain access to microcredit, development will be slow since there is no safe place for them to save their earnings at home and so in effect, little potential for them to accumulate or reliably protect their assets. I like the progress I've seen in India with self-help groups -- especially APMAS or you can go to the Self Help Group Gateway. There are other cases (ASCAs and CVECAs in West Africa, FSAs in East Africa, and re-invigorated cooperatives in various places), and I plan to keep that 'new microfinance' moving! I hope you'll join me.Brett epic 17:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] International Credit Union Operating Principles

Hello Brett. Welcome to Wikipedia. I am not sure exactly why your article was deleted, but you should not be discouraged. Do you have a copy of the text of your article, either in a sandbox or your browser's history? If you could show me the text of the article and copy and paste it to here, I will take a look at it and let you know what I think. It's quite possible that your article just needs a small change or two to avoid deletion. Gobonobo T C 16:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Brett & Gobonobo. As long as I was in the neighborhood stalking Ramon, >;-o) I'll chime in. Just keep plugging away. There's always some way to get around pesky "deletionists." It's just a matter of getting the citations straight, which might mean quoting a little less text per block. Also, since the World Council of Credit Unions article is just a stub, you might consider adding some sections there, one of which could be a summary of the Operating Principles, e.g., a bulleted list of them with brief summaries. Just keep in mind there's more than one way to eat / feed! an elephant! ;-) RichardF 17:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your advice, both of you! I've contacted the World Council to inquire whether they have any copyright issues. Editors probably confuse WOCCU with a normal corporation and so over-reaction may be quite natural. Anyway, I'll keep plugging away and as you say, there's usually more than one way to 'skin a cat'.Brett epic 17:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gidday Brett and thanks...

... for all the great work you've been doing on Cambodia related articles - it's great to see another editor taking an interest. I noticed you've been having a go at the many missing Cambodian district articles starting with Banan (Cambodia). I've been slowly working my way along that list as well, starting with the districts in Pursat Province. It's slow work and it's great to see someone else working on them. I notice we've both been using different naming styles for the article and wanted to discuss using the same naming conventions just to keep things consistent. I've been using [[districtname (district)]] but it may not be the best way. Let me know what you think and a belated welcome aboard. Cheers, Paxse 14:40, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey Brett, sorry for the late reply - yep I'll be here in August, this is home now. Don't give up on the Cambodia articles, we need editors who are interested in the place. Being familiar with Kampong Thom is an added advantage :) On that note, can I suggest you might like to stick your name down at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cambodia? It's a collection of editors interested in Cambodia - no commitment involved but it would be great to have you on board. Cheers, Paxse 07:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:BRAC villageorg 1.jpg

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[edit] Development stuff

Hi - just saw your name at WP:International Development, and checked your userpage - seems we have many common interests. I'm mainly at Appropedia these days, but still contribute encyclopedic material here.

Will come back when I have more time and look more at your KIVA-skeptic comments. My initial thought is that credit and savings are not mutually incompatible - a scheme I was looking at in East Java recently has mobilized a substantial amount of money* in savings, which are used in making further loans. The women I spoke to were positive about the effect the loans had had in their lives, though I would need to look a lot deeper to make very confident statements about this.

  • The figure I recall was about Rp 500 million (US$50,000) among 3000 women... which actually doesn't sound like much, so I'll have to check back on that.

I'm currently in Taipei for Wikimania - very exciting! --Chriswaterguy talk 07:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 14 August 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Edward Filene, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 20:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Excellent job with the expansion. I enjoyed the read -- Samir 22:16, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oral Tradition

Hi Brett-- I added a bibliographical note to address the sourcing issue; see the discussion page for the article. Maybe that'll help. DavidOaks 20:52, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query On 18 August 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article orality, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
--Carabinieri 23:01, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MFI interest rates

Brett,

Wikipedia doesn't seem to know what a "flat" interest rate is. I probably don't either. The closest I could find was, "'Flat interest rate' is the rate of interest that is determined at the time of application and is fixed for the duration of the loan." I also seem to be missing the nuances among "simple" "flat" and "nominal" interest. Any help there would be appreciated. More generally, I came across this article, Effective Interest Rate (EIR) (pdf) by William R. Tucker at the UNDCF Microfinance Distance Learning Program. I tried to do some searching at CGAP for the discussions you alluded to, but that seemed like an exercise in futility. Can you point me to a general discussion of how MFI interest rates "should" be reported for comparability comparisons and such? I just raised the question at Kiva Friends, but I really couldn't say much about the relative merits of different approaches, so I didn't. (I also read your comments at the Kiva article after I posted this.) RichardF 02:16, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

p.s. How about this? CGAP. "Microcredit Interest Rates," Occasional Paper No. 1, August 1996. RichardF 03:48, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

ALTERNATIVE 4 — Flat Interest: Same as Base Case, except that “flat” interest is calculated on the entire loan amount, rather than on declining balances, and is prorated over the four monthly payments.
Compute Cash Flows: Total interest is 120 [1000 x 3% x 4 mos.]. Total principal plus interest is 1120 [1000 + 120], or 280 each month [1120 ¸ 4].
Compute Effective Interest Rate: PV = 1000; PMT = -280; n = 4. Solving for i yields an effective monthly rate of 4.69%, which is multiplied by 12 for an APR of 56.3%. (page 6) RichardF 04:01, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
Looks like you've got it! Good luck with Kiva!Brett epic 04:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:River crossing Prey Moul, Kg. Chhnang 1.jpg

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[edit] Wikimania 2009

Toronto Candidate City for Wikimania 2009
Support TORONTO in its bid to become the host city of WIKIMANIA 2009
The University of Toronto is the planned host site, which I see is your alma-mater!

Visit m:Wikimania 2009/Toronto for TORONTO's MetaWiki page and help build a strong bid.
-- Zanimum 16:43, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In Remembrance...

Rememberance Day

--nat Alo! Salut! Sunt eu, un haiduc?!?! 00:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Microfinance

Hi Brett, you left me a message a while ago that I meant to respond to and have just realized I never did! Just to say I think you're very brave to take the subject on :) and please let me know if there's anything I can o to help. I am, as you surmised, a little frustrated by the constant promotion of individual organizations (however noble their work) in an article that is supposed to be about a concept. I don't consider myself in any way an expert on the field and feel inadequate to writing a decent summary. I am however happy to do any grunt work you need, or provide a fresh eye if it would be useful. -- SiobhanHansa 16:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Saving down.jpg

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:Saving down.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

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[edit] chatting...

Hi Brett,

We exchanged notes on our talk pages in around late July last year, about development and MF issues, and were going to get in touch when we were less busy. "Less busy" is probably not going to happen this decade, but if you're up for Skype, my username is the same as my username here.

I'm involved with the Grameen Foundation Australia, though my main work is on Appropedia. --Chriswaterguy talk 00:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV Dispute, Microfinance

Hi Brett. I deal with it like this :-) If there are still issues this will hopefully prompt Cherlin (or any other editor) to provide helpful commentary on the talk page so they can be addressed. When I've made a good faith attempt to address issues flagged by an editor I normally remove the tag with a similar message. Sometimes editors (myself included!) are busy and don't prioritize issues that leave their edits/tags etc. intact on the article - they might well agree with the changes but haven't gotten around to removing the tag. Sometimes the editor has stopped editing for a while. These things shouldn't hold up improving the article. Being proactive like this (obviously with a genuine expectation that another editor may restore the tag and that that's OK) can be a good way of moving things along when talk page notes are not responded to.

I guess ideally we wouldn't have a criticism section at all. Our manual of style prefers pro and con POVs to be handled throughout the entire article (in a manner appropriate to their acceptance within the field) rather than in separate sections. But I think that's a job for an attempt at Good Article status rather than to defuse an NPOV tag. In any case it didn't really seem to be what Cherlin had a problem with - which seemed more focused on the presentation of the criticisms as wide spread without supporting citations and which you seemed to address in your edits. Sorry I haven't been paying much attention to the article lately. I'm not spending much time on-wiki at the moment. Hope this has been helpful. -- SiobhanHansa 02:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)