Talk:Brenda Song

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Brenda Song article.
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[edit] Changes

I practicly redid the article: removing unnecessary info, adding on in the "personal" section, rewriting paragraphs...ect. What do you think, is it better? loulou 20:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

and why did you delete brenda's television table ashley tisdale has hers.

[edit] BRENDA SONG AND AMERICAN DARLINGS

STOP THAT she didnt have a fight in a night club with j.lo so stop those comments. by User:prepelos 11:07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.106.200 (talk) 10:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ugh!!!

Ugh! Someone vandilized this page and I had to convert the whole thing back to normal! loulou 21:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Any idea who removed that picture of her? DanTD 05:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

if its vandilized then lets have a semi protected tag for brenda song. User:prepelos 10:45 27 august 2007. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prepelos (talk • contribs) 21:42, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Free image needed

Can somebody find a free image of her that we can use on this article? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CFD

Can an admin change Category:Charmed actors to Category:Charmed cast, please? Thanks, Happy Editing by Snowolf(talk) on 14:30, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extra credits

How do we know she was in Supernatural (TV series)? I can't find it anywhere. Which episode was it? - Peregrine Fisher 07:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brenda Song's MySpace

I heard somewhere that Brenda Song has a myspace. Could someone check that out and see? If so, put it under the links section. Why? Because there are links to celebrities MySpaces in Wikipedia, for example, Nat Wolff from the Naked Brothers Band. Abcw12 06:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

NO NO NO they are all just obsessed fans trying to get attention by pretending to be brenda no one believes them but she does have a fan club on myspace that is extremely popular well popular on myspace like this fan [1] and this one is hilarous actually i dont know it might be the real brenda im not sure. User:Prepelos 10:52 27 august 2007

[edit] Music section

Can anyone provide WP:RS for this: "Brenda will be releasing a solo CD,Ian Scott from Mark Jackson Productions (who also produced popular commericials, TV shows such as Laguna Beach & The Hills, videos, etc.) written & prooduced some of her songs. The release of the CD is not yet confirmed, but is spected to be released sometime in 2008." Red Masque 09:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

first of all yes there is a reliable source check out [2] about her recording career and the references have all disappeared its vandellism and no one is doing anything about it and anyway how ashley tisdale has a huge article and brenda is so much smaller brenda has done a disney channel movie like ashley and she has appeared in a lot of shows the difference is ashley has a album and she has appeared in high school musical (that has a lot of publicity) but brenda's movie wendy wu is popular too (it had a lot of references from the new york post and others) so i dont think its fair on brenda (thats so not fair just because brenda is asian and ashley is white and blonde its not fair and howcome its always about americaa point of view of the world and asia ).

[edit] Birthday

According to one of the links (the AskMen.com profile) it says she was born September 24, 1987. However, the imdb and TV.com links say March 27, 1988 (which is what this article says). Her official site doesn't list a birth date so that doesn't help. Since imdb and TV.com are user generated sites though, I'm going to change the date and put a citation request to see if anyone can find information that confirms either date. Phydend 16:10, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Her official site lists March 27, 1988, under biography. Gimmetrow 16:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh sorry, I looked there, but obviously didn't read the whole thing. Thanks for the fix. Phydend 16:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tables for albums and singles in discography

At this point, Song's recording career is fairly short. There is no real need for wikitables, and those that were used looked rather non-standard. Please don't add them again. An anon recently added Disneymania 2 as an album, presumably based on the presence of the track "A Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes", but the Disneymania 2 article credits that version to someone else. She was involved with the version appearing on Disneymania 4. Gimmetrow 01:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

yeah i guess but she did appear in Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes so why cant we add a chart because ashley tisdale has a huge chart and one side says Dream Is a Wish Your Heart Makes (the chart position is empty but technically there is nooooooooo need for ashley tisdales chart).

[edit] Ethnicity?

Song is an Korean and Chinese name, not Hmong, Laotian or South East Asian. Her father is maybe both of Korean and Chinese descent, actually, her mother is Thai/Cambodian/Vietnamese/Burmese. And she's a buddhist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.210.82.88 (talk • contribs) 2007-06-30 14:28:37

Dude, that's like everything... ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 Refill/lol 03:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Um, it said on her Official website her fathers Hmong and her mother is Thai-American, not Korean or Chinese. --Cinnamonroll 15:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Song is also a Hmong surname. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The spelling of her last name "Song" is actually more commonly spelled "Xiong."--67.115.117.9 16:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


first of all yes there is a reliable source about her reording and the references have all disappeared.

[edit] Reference

Yeah where did all the reference go? x[ --Cinnamonroll 23:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

They're back now. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:21, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] american darlings

brend ais just amazing i cant wait for her next hit. User:Prepelos 10:40 27 august 2007

[edit] Music and album

this producer claims that he has recorded some songs with brenda yes there is a reliable source check out [3]. User:Prepelos 10:43 27 august 2007

[edit] brenda and ali lohan

is ali lohan a brenda fan or a friend because she has been like seen with brenda twice photographed at a premiere and shopping (i think).User:Prepelos 10:52 27 august 2007

[edit] Personal life

she has a bull dog i think and she is best friends with ashley tisdale,hallie harsh, vanessa hudgens and Kristin Herrera. she is close frienda with her co-stars on the suite life of zack and cosy that is going to be cancelled its really sad. Cole Sprouse ,Dylan Sprouse and Phill Lewis ofcourse are also close friends with brend aso its going to be sad.

not to mention the fact dylan sprouse,kyle massey and ricky (phil of the future star ) have been seen kissing brenda in the cheeks so i guess they are really close friends. so i think that she needs a personal life section in her article imm going to add it. User:Prepelos 10:52 27 august 2007

and she is also bfs with aly and aj and i read in this magazine that she has over 100 pairs of shoes and she is also friends with all of the suite life stars and i also read in this magazine that she is dating Devon Werkheiser and i read that she has dated Jesse McCartney. User:Prepelos 11:06 27 august 2007

[edit] Semi Protected

someone wrote I HATE DISNEY in brenda's article i think it should be semi protected. User:Prepelos 9:35 2 nd september 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prepelos (talk • contribs) 20:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Xiong

What is the source for the name "Xiong" that has been added to the article? There is no use of "Xiong" on the official site. "Brenda Xiong Song" gets a total of 7 ghits, which are either mirrors of Wikipedia, or unreliable sites/blogs. Gimmetrow 10:32, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the "Xiong" name staying in this article, as it will tend to spread to other sites. I'm also removing a sentence implying her mother forced her to study Tae Kwon Do, and a sentence about a connection to the Powers agency. Please do not add these without a reference (and for the latter, I wouldn't trust a JRP site). Finally, I would suggest that the listing of "friends" in the Personal section is a bit too much like myspace. Gimmetrow 21:18, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Two Sources for a middle name, or lack thereof

I read the debate about the middle name and I have two sources that can shed light on this.

Brenda Song The California Birth Index lists a "Brenda Song" born on 27 March 1988 in Sacramento County, California (In order to make absolutely sure I had the right Brenda Song I checked and Carmichael is in Sacramento County). According to this her mother's maiden name is "Lee". I am looking at this information on Ancestry.com at this link [4]. Since Ancestry.com is not public to everyone I am also listing the record on Familytreelegends.com which affirms her name as "Brenda Song" [5].

Brenda Julietta Song Her mini biography on the IMDB lists her birth name as "Brenda Julietta Song" [6].

I would think the vital statistics index would be more authoratative but the index only lists the name as it existed on the birth certificate. If her parents decided to give her a middle name later I don't think it would be expressed in the index. I have done substantial genealogical work with this database and I have found no reason to doubt its listings. That is just my opinion on the database so I will let the editors of this article judge which source is more worthy of inclusion. James E. Zavaleta Talk 22:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] John Robert Powers

The assertion that she "signed with" JRP really needs to be cited to some source other than JRP. JRP has been known to claim celebrities as "success stories", when the celebrities had no connection to JRP.

Also, please use spaces after punctuation when adding new content, and per WP:MSH, only capitalize the first word and proper names in section headers. Please don't revert edits which fix these errors. Gimmetrow 15:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Various points about this article

Periods (.) and commas (,) and quotes (") and most other puncutation are followed by one space, but have no spaces before.

Movie titles are in italics. That means Santa with Muscles, not Santa with Muscles.

Movie titles may need disambiguation to point to the correct article. Song was in Requiem, not Requiem, and Popular, not Popular.

Writing which says "Song appeared as A in X. She appeared as B in Y. Then she appeared as C in Z." is repetitive in itself, and repeats the content which already in tabular form. There is no need to have such repetitive content in two or more places. Gimmetrow 18:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, many of the "references" do not support the statements they supposedly reference. For instance, the statement that "She graduated from high school as valedictorian with Kay Panabaker when she was 16 years old" is referenced to a photo album of all things, which neither says that she graduated as valedictorian, nor that she was 16 years old at the time, the two key points of info in the statement that need to be cited. I will go through this article and prune it considerably in the next few days if I don't see anyone else cleaning it up. Gimmetrow 21:31, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Normal 320.jpg

Image:Normal 320.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 03:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Deleted non-free images. Can never use fair use as a justification for an image in a biography as a free replacement is always possible. --NrDg 16:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] College Road Trip

There seems to be some debate whether Song was in College Road Trip. The source provided is a "Teen Mag" interview. [7] Read the "Nothing is set in stone" line carefully. She's was asked about the Wendy Wu sequel, and the following clause begins "but", indicating a contrast. So she's saying: nothing is set in stone about Wu, but there is this other movie I'm in.

It's possible this project fell apart, but as the movie is not released, I wouldn't trust IMDb on this. IMDb doesn't include her in the credits, but an argument from absence is tenuous, and IMDb isn't really a reliable source anyway.

On the other hand, She is listed in the description of the trailer on aol videos. [8] I don't know if NYTimes movies is reliable either, but she is listed among the cast there. [9]

These seem like sufficient sources to justify what User:Brendasongfan wants to add to the article. I don't necessarily think it should be added to the template, though, since that's a "selected filmography". Gimmetrow 21:17, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The New York Times reference is gold. Put the movie in the article. List Song in the movie article. But use the NYT reference in both - that is the one that is the most reliable. The other references are ambiguous. IMDB is pretty reliable in casting and general movie information. Lack of a listing there creates a pretty strong (but rebutable) presumption of not being in the movie. Since Wikipedia is more about what we can verify with reliable sources (blame on them actually) than what is actually true, the NYT reference meets our needs. --NrDg 21:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Just note, this is NYTimes movies, not simply NYTimes. Editorial standards may be different. Gimmetrow 21:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Different but still very reliable with a good reputation for fact checking. It is the best reference available. It needs to be in the article to back up the somewhat ambiguous interview reference. --NrDg 21:58, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] He Said She Said

Ok I don't think Brenda makes a cameo in the Ashley Tisdale "He Said She Said" music video like the article suggests. Maybe I just didn't notice her, but from what I've seen, she's not in it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.66.36 (talk) 05:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Birthplace???

Why does it say that she was born in Carmichael, California when on tv, it always says that she was born in Vietiane, Laos in the continent of Asia. everyone knows that she was born in Laos. I edited this and put Vietiane, Laos on it. Sarai aka Cookie Monster 1:33, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

See bio on brendasongsite.com Gimmetrow 07:05, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Filmography article

OK, it's been a while since someone split out the filmography section to a separate article. Many more senior actors with lengthy careers do not have separate filmography articles on WP. On the other hand, they also do not list every guest appearance and certainly not "self appearances". I think film and TV should be in the main article. I think it's reasonable to include any guest appearances that can be sourced to something other than imdb and tv.com, and so are notable in themselves; that would probably exclude all the single-episode appearances except the one on Bernie Mac. Gimmetrow 22:28, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah i agree we should delete the article.It should be merged in to Brenda Song it should be a held for speedy deletion.It is so far pointless because many more senior actors dont have seperate filmography articles.Prepelos 12:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes i think that the article i've created should be merged into the main Brenda Song article because i was not aware of the points that Gimmetrow has made.Hp2o 15:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Brenda Song's Filmography page is useless delete it. Rajamicca 15:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
To those saying "delete" - we cannot "delete" the article if we keep any edits from it. We can restore the table as it was here, otherwise the other page must stay, at least as a redirect. Gimmetrow 23:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

By not waiting and by incorporating edits from that other article, you have made it nearly impossible to delete that other article. It will take some serious surgery now to delete the article. Next time, patience. Gimmetrow 21:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I'll change the film board back!

Someone split out the filmography section to a separate article so i have to repair it .I don't like that list because It's deprived of movies and series of Brenda Song!!!!And where's the old pic????

BrendaSongbestfan (talk) 08:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Gimmetrow 08:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Placeholder image

The placeholder image just encourages people to upload copyrighted images, which then have to be deleted. The placeholder .svg is a disaster for this article and ought not be here. I propose banning it from this article. Gimmetrow 00:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

The guest appearance section is a problem. I really don't care what the Miley Cyrus and Ashley Tisdale pages have. The list here just repeats what imdb has and bloats the article. The options on the table were to have a limited table here, or have the filmography article and fill that with fancruft. But nobody wanted the filmography article. Gimmetrow 21:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Organisation of this article

OK, that's it. This page gets reorganised way too often, going back and forth between the acting career organised by time, or split into film and tv and whatnot. It appears in some cases it's the same editor changing back and forth. To keep the article stable from now on, I intend to revert any substantial rearrangements which are not discussed on this talk page. If people want to rearrange the article some other way, fine, but discuss it first and get a consensus. Gimmetrow 21:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Again the organisation of this article has flipflopped. Since I'm always the one to clean up after the fact all the typos and manual of style problems, I'm tired of it. So let's discuss the structure of this article and get it decided once and for all, so nobody can go making BS accusations of ownership.

All featured actor articles as far as I know have the acting career organised sequentially. See Eric Bana, Jackie Chan, Katie Holmes, Vivian Leigh and Emma Watson. So that seems to be the standard way. Does anyone else have an opinion? (And notice the Katie Holmes article doesn't include any TV shows in filmography, and Vivian Leigh article doesn't even have a filmography.) Gimmetrow 04:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

If nobody is going to express any contrary opinion here on talk, then I'll change the article to correspond to the order found in most featured articles. Gimmetrow 19:33, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm interpreting this as a reorder to sequential organisation. Gimmetrow 23:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of comments

Someone drew my attention to this edit. Comments made regarding this article have a context, and may not apply elsewhere. Certain other "comparable" pages are not really comparable. This article had a problem with an incorrect name, and with some other bits of questionable information. As a consequence, sources here really need to be checked so the article doesn't end up full of more bad info, which would then get copied all over the net. The subject deserves that. I appreciate the info User:Brendasongfan (and other accounts) have found. Gimmetrow 04:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hi The Awards Section

ashley tisdale's article has awards listed that are not 4 her they are for the show and movie she was featured in and when i change that using it always gets reverted and imdb cause emily osment has a nomination with the young artist awards for her goosebumps movie but it isnt even feautured in imdb because imdb is user posted information with no sources excpet the salaries for the actors have to have a source and i am sorry i just wnated to let you know about imdb and tv.com and about ashley tisdale's article which has nominations for the suite life and high school musical which shouldnt be. 145.126.243 04:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The nominations for Suite Life are discussed in the text here. I didn't really think about the awards table when it was short, but as it grew it seemed different than the list in, say, Angelina Jolie or Emma Watson. Those are both featured articles, and the awards sections are (more or less) specific to the actress. As you say, IMDb is user-submitted so it's not always to be trusted (just like here). This article has had its share of fake info, so for safety it really ought to point directly to the award site when possible. Gimmetrow 16:17, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violation

I removed the "Personal life" section which appears to be a copyright violation from here. Remember, just changing the occasional word is nowhere near sufficient to avoid a copyright violation. --Yamla (talk) 19:57, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Further reading?

The following are listed as "further reading":

  • (2007) Brenda Song. Scholastic Math. ISBN 23610179. [1]
  • Entin, Carli (2005). Math Spotlight on... Brenda Song. Scholastic Math. ISBN 16726204. [2]

The problems with this are:

  • the ISBNs given are NOT ISBNs. I added an html comment to that effect so someone who claims to have the books would provide it, but that comment has been removed multiple times without providing the ISBNs.
  • the second link is broken
  • the first link says it's a 1/3 page article with 1 color photograph, which "presents a mathematical problem on how many gas gallons will Brenda Song..." At 1/3 page, including presenting a mathematical problem, it can't have much content about Song.
  1. ^ Brenda Song Scholastic Math. Accessed 2008-02-18.
  2. ^ MATH Spotlight on... Brenda Song. Accessed 2008-02-18.

Song didn't write these books. They're not biographies about her. They are math problems. If there is anything useful to say about these books, then write some text to say it. Otherwise, it might fly as an external link (though I tried that once before, and that was rejected). Gimmetrow 05:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me but those books are not written by her but they are biograohical they do not have initially math problems they include Song's point of views and Mathematics and i believe that you do nto own one of those books to judge this imperial fact. Gallons in the summary direct to Mathematics and Song's facts like in Britney SPears biographies they ussually include weight/height/and others and in this book, the author has used Brenda Song for an example to encourage children and at the same time to include biograohical facts about Brenda if not used in this article as Further Readings it can be used in some text to show readers about this book. Like i said many people disagree with your reaction since the books included have biographical text about Brenda Song which links to maths. The book includes Song's personal background, early life and career facts. Which is exactly why it should not be used in teh external liks since they are for official links from sites not book references. FortyFootEcho 4:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

The main question is: do these books provide significant useful independent information about Song? Are they genuine "further reading" about the subject of this article, which is Brenda Song? Would they be present once this article is featured? I think the answer to all three questions is no; clearly no for the third one. I'm not denying they have some biographical content, but we do not list every webpage that's ever said anything about Song.
I would like to have this page featured on the mainpage someday; wouldn't you? This is why I prune out trivia like the self-appearances. There's no list of self-appearances in other featured articles - and I hope you would find it silly to find a list of every time Angelina Jolie appeared on a talk show. Listing such things next to Young Artist Awards and major movie roles demeans those accomplishments. Gimmetrow 16:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I find the idea of a Disney-manufactured star on the main page a bit distasteful, but that doesn't undermine your argument. Articles are supposed to be a discussion of important things that a person has done. Every successful entertainer does the talk-show circuit, and providing the details of each and every appearance is completely unnecessary. Similarly, every Disney creation has marketing tie-ins, both the animated and flesh-and-blood ones. A mathematics book with Brenda Song as the marketing hook is no more notable than listing every notebook cover that had Snow White on the cover.Kww (talk) 16:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you, i never looked at it that way but Brenda is not a Disney manufactured starlet she was famous before Disney from Like Mike and others. FortyFootEcho (talk) 17:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent edit warring

Note: Two of the participants FortyFootEcho (talk · contribs) and 81.159.130.144 (talk · contribs) are the same editor. Bratzwq (talk · contribs) has a history of adding speculative, unreferenced and deliberately false information to articles and has been temporarily blocked for this [10]. --NrDg 19:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Please talk about the edit war here, we don't want it again. The reason to the war seems to be Brenda's singles, here is some of it:

  • 2008: "Pretty Princess"

Music Videos

  • 2006: "Open Up Your Eyes"
  • 2007: "All Over My Body"
  • 2008: "Pretty Princess"

Album

  • BJS

Are those singles correct, do they have a reliable source confirm it? If their are more singles which I haven't said please tell me, untill this has been solved the protection is on the page --Kanonkas :  Take Contact  14:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Non-free image needs to be removed from article

Image:KylaBrendaMusic.jpg is a non-free copyrighted image and needs to be removed from article. As the page is now fully protected we need consensus to make any changes at all to the article. --NrDg 19:21, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, as an admin, you can edit protected articles to enforce the legal policies (fair use, BLP, etc), without regard to consensus. Embrace your power, and enjoy it. Just remember the Spiderman oath: With great power comes great responsibility. Kww (talk) 19:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Chuckle. I know, but it doesn't hurt to ask and the image is tagged. I don't want to give any appearance of abusing my ability to edit protected stuff. I'll declare consensus and delete it. --NrDg 19:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Other images

I think the other images may be copyvios too. There's a long history of copyvio images with this article. The last set of confirmed and probable copyvios were removed 28 March 2008. The current three images (Image:BrendaSongBook.jpg, Image:BrendaSong1999.jpg and Image:BrendaSongST.jpg) were added to this article 21:51, 31 March 2008[11]

  • Image:BrendaSongBook.jpg appeared at flickr:osmentjonasfan on March 30, 2008, uploaded to commons by user:Osmentjonasfan 13:09, March 30
  • Image:BrendaSong1999.jpg, also appeared at flickr:osmentjonasfan on March 30, 2008, uploaded to commons by user:Osmentjonasfan 13:15, March 30
    • Flickr:osmentjonasfan hosts two images of Song copied from elsewhere: [12] and [13] were uploaded to flickr 14 April 2008, but were previously uploaded by flickr:Jolene March 11, 2007 and April 14, 2007 with "all rights reserved". Therefore Osmentjonasfan probably doesn't own the images and the CC-BY licensing for these images is probably wrong, making the other two CC-BY images suspect.
  • Image:BrendaSongX-Mas.jpg, not currently in the article, appeared at flickr:maxlodge1985 30 March, and uploaded to commons 13:25, 30 March 2008 by User:Maxlodge1985
  • Image:BrendaSongST.jpg appeared at flickr:maxlodge1985 also on March 30, 2008, and uploaded to commons by User:Maxlodge1985 at 13:28, 30 March 2008.
    • These are user:Maxlodge1985's only flickr and commons uploads. Although the two images look like personal images, the timing is suspicious.
  • There's a prior pattern of Song images from flickr getting uploaded to commons under a matching username. Commons:Deletion requests/Image:BrendaSong213DisneyLand.jpg mentions commons:user:haleyr123 and commons:user:FrogMiller.

I'm tempted to request a checkuser on commons. Gimmetrow 21:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd be interested in the results of this. I wish I had checkuser, and some sort of image search engine that would let you feed in an image and find duplicates online. --Yamla (talk) 22:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes but timing is not the issue, the images that you say are copied have all rights reserved on Max Lodge's page so you can not judge from that it does not say CB-BY on the two images and the two images look very personal and are not found anywhere else on the net. You are wasting your time investigating images that have CB and are not found anywhere else on the net, and checking it would good but other than that you have no proof, timing is not an issue and even if those two users are related you still have no evidience that they have used copyvios.

Those two Flickr users might be related but they have not done anything against wikipedia policies and those two images from Jolene are all right reserved by Jolene and the other user. So you have nothing against them and it seems like you are taking a lot of your time to find evidience that the images are copyvios when Jolene and Osmentjonasfan had Flickr @all rights reserved for both of images from Malaysia and Costa Rica. The other Osmentjonasfan are CB and are not found on any other source, they also seem personal. And the Max Lodge images seem personal too and are not found on any other source, so right now you have no evidience posting a image that is @flickr all right reserved and for OsmentJonasFan to confirm it is stable. The other images are CC-BY which is not very rule breaking. A usercheck would be good. --User:IntoCreativeJan (talk) 2:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

ICJ, Wikipedia will as a rule only use images from flickr if the images are licensed as CC-BY or CC-BY-SA. Any other flickr licensing, including "all rights reserved", is not acceptable at commons and would only be used here under a "fair use" claim. To get around this, some people find an image, upload it to flickr on their own account with a CC-BY license, then upload it to commons referencing the CC-BY licensing at flickr, thus making it appear at first glance to be legitimately licensed. This is serious abuse. I really hope it's not happening here. Gimmetrow 22:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I am saying that the two images [14] and [15] are uploaded on osmentjonas's account with "all rights reserved". And credit to Jolene. --User:IntoCreativeJan (talk) 4:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Have they always been that way? Gimmetrow 01:26, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Checkuser has been perfomed and the action was indefinite block for the sockpuppets per checkuser case --Kanonkas :  Take Contact  18:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Brenda Song's salary

I am a user on IMDB. And i have noticed that Brenda Song's salary for Wendy Wu is 1.2 million. Now salaries on IMDB can not be submitted without a reference if you do not believe me register on IMDB and check the add sections. So all i have to do is find the source which will be quite hard sinc eit is not featured on Forbes but there is a high possibilities for finding it on AOL or other major sites. Here is a quick link to the updates page http://www.imdb.com/updates.

IMDB does not seem to allow salaries without sources though all of the otehr sections in the biography pages are unsourced. Can i add the salary to the Brenda Song page. Since i ahve proved that IMDB salary sections need to be sourced or do i ahve to find the source and then add it. The question is not all IMDB sections are not reliable and i have read that several times on wikipedia. Information supplied from directors and casting producers can be used but this matter is financhal and seems to be reliable since it needs to have a source. The salaries can not be submitted with out a source. Please register on IMDB and then check the updates page to examine the section and reply to me with your point of view. Thank you -IntoCreativeJan (talk) 09:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Looking at http://www.imdb.com/updates/guide/bio_sa I see nothing that confirms that it is verified by IMDB. Please provide a better reference to support your statement that salary information is verified. --NrDg 16:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
The guide does not confirm that. Register on IMDB then go to Brenda Song (update button) then go on the biography page and try uploading a amount and you will see that IMDB does not except salary information without sources. I do not know why it is not mentioned in the guide. Anyways register and try updating a salary to any actors page, and you will soon find out the notice that says IMDB does not except salaries without sources this is very hard. I have searched some network sites but i did not find the source. But IMDB clearly states that salaries need a source. If you are registered and trying to update a source to any actors page. I do not know why it is not mentioned in the guide. --IntoCreativeJan 16:24, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
The difficulty with IMDb is that it's not transparent. It doesn't generally indicate what (if any) source any info comes from. I've submitted info to IMDb, and I know there are ways to figure out if certain info is "locked", but even that isn't transparent. If you can find something referenced elsewhere then please use that reference. Gimmetrow 21:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Awards and achievements"

Every piece of information in the "Awards and achievements" section, is mentioned elsewhere in the article. The various rankings are in Public image, which seems a better spot, and the other awards are mentioned either in the text (where they have context and explanation), or in the table (where they are too minor to mention). This section is therefore redundant and should be removed. Gimmetrow 16:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm getting tired of fixing things and having those fixes reverted wholesale without any discussion here. There are reasons for all the changes made. For instance, the article now has restored this gem:

...has taken college courses online from the University of California.[7] Song was a member of the Delta Phi Kappa sorority,[16] where she served as president.

In the link, the Brenda Song identified as president of the sorority at USC (not the University of California mentioned in the previous sentence), was president and charter member in 1960. It's also absurd to add a link to this TV guide blurb to reference a fact already covered in a normal full-length New York Times article. Now would the IP please revert completely. Gimmetrow 22:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Doing full revert for what. There is no Achievements section and every thing that the Ip added is referenced and short. The achievements section has been removed. The ip's version is fine. Well sourced and more organized than your version of the article. First of all the IP removed the Delta Phi Kappa sorority source that you claim is not reliable and the Awards and achievements section has been removed and split to the sections they belong in. And by the way that text about the Delta Phi Kappa sorority claims that Brenda was part of Delta Phi Kappa sorority, where she served as president it does not mention anything about Brenda being president of the universty. I checked the section before you removed it. It seems like you have mis understood the text.IntoCreativeJan 9:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I spent extensive time correcting references, cleaning them up and making them consistent, rewriting the lead, removing repeated wikilinks, improving phrasing, and so forth. The "IP version" removed all that without explanation, then proceeded to rearrange other parts of the text, placing items out of order and in inappopriate eras. I asked the IP editor to stop. There was no discussion. Gimmetrow 20:06, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
There was nothing saying Song was president of the university. Where in the world did you get that? Gimmetrow 20:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

That is not fair i have discussed the issue. You just reverted everything with out replying to the issue on the discussion oage and now you have told another admin to semi protect the page for nothing. I did not vandellize the page. I have submitted a paragraph explaining why on the discussion page. You can not have everything your way. You have to remember that you do not own the page. Give other users a opportunity to edit. . The IP version is like your version but he/she added more text and sources. Which made the article more organized. The IP one did not revert all of your work check the history page again.IntoCreativeJan 19:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I didn't protect the page. Which IP edits do you acknowledge as yours? Was 81.155.226.185 you? Anyway, do you have any idea how frustrating it is to spend half an hour fixing up a page, tidying it up, only to have someone blindly revert everything because of one tiny issue, without any consideration for the other edits? Gimmetrow 20:15, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes but you are not understanding me. I said that the last version was not a reverted version of your work. Look at the history page. The IP has not reverted your work. I looked at the IP version, it does not have the awards and achievements section. It only includes more text and sources and it looks more organized since the ranking is in personal life, and the awards info is in the career sections where it was supposed to be in the first place. Listen in the first place Deinaked started reverting everythong and my old version of the article so the i reverted everything she did and it took me a very long time to do that. And the thing that is bothering me is that she gets no warning or block afer deleting half of the page and references without any explanation. Yes i am that IP thing but my IP address keeps on changing for some reason and i got very angry with what Deinaked did. And then you came along and i thought that you were associated with Deinaked, so i reverted something you did with out any explanation and i am very sorry for that. Then when i saw your warning. I decided to do remove the awards and achievemnts section and add more sources and text to improve the article and then you though that i reverted your work again changing the postion of text and reverted the work, and then NRDG protected the page it all comes to pieces and i am very sorry the last edit did not revert your version. 31 of March is a very long time. Deinaked reverted more work earlier this month and recieved no block warning. I thought that this applied to everyone. And considering that my edits did not last for 7 times of reverting text and removing work like what Deinaked did. I have had my IP address change for more than 3 times over the past few months for some reason so it is pretty hard to find out the wprk that i have done and then i finally decided to create a user name. IntoCreativeJan 19:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
OK, I think we're basically on the same page. Deinaked did get a warning. I'll go through and figure out what you changed and incorporate it into this version after the lock expires. I would appreciate it if I got the same courtesy.[17] One thing you did well was move something from 2004 to the 2003+ section, but also moved the 2000 film.[18] The 2003+ section ended up with a lot of repetition (see this version). Two films are mentioned twice (in the second and third paragraphs), and there are repeated links. (Also, I didn't see where the Hmong Today article said she had a degree in business.) In general, the text should be more than just a repetition of everything in the tables; it should select some info and discuss its relevance. Gimmetrow 21:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok i will fix the 2003+ section or use your version then add the sections that i moved. And then i can follw your guidelines for no repetition, but the text generally is not repetition to everything in tables because in that version i added viewers, production , awards and casting. While this version is mainly repetition to everthing in tables. It would take along time for me to create the old version without repetition and to organize more like putting the 2000 film where it belongs it having the disney channel beginning (2000-2005) and that would make it more organized but in general it would take a long time and i might not do it since 31 May is the last day of the half term. IntoCreativeJan 11:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)