Talk:Breathless (1960 film)

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I think a comment should be made that "Breathless" is really a poor translation, as the original French title literally translates closer to "At the end of breath" or "With the end of breath", which conveys a much different meaning than the generic "Breathless". Revolver 18:07, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Neo-Noir 2 Article Title 3 Release date 4 Translation of Michel's dying words 5 Importance 6 WikiProject class rating 7 DVD Releases 8 Deguelasse 9 Fair use rationale for Image:A souffle.jpg

[edit] Neo-Noir

Really? I didn't think that at all about this picture. Though it does pay tribute to films of that era, some of which were unquestionably noir, I personally feel that it very much lacks the noir aesthetics.

• • not neo noir**

Of course it has nothign of neo noir, I think it is completely different... --148.233.221.29 05:20, 23 October 2005 (UTC)Anonimo

[edit] Article Title

It would be better if this article was called A Bout de Souffle, to disambiguate with any article about the english language remake Breathless--Mongreilf 13:30, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

It should be called by its most common title in English, per WP:UE, which would be Breathless. I've changed the title to reflect this; however, the top will also retain a link to the 1983 remake to avoid confusion. Girolamo Savonarola 18:50, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Release date

There is often some confusion about the release date of the film. According to Jean Collet's Jean-Luc Godard and Julia Lesage's Jean-Luc Godard: A Guide to References and Resources it is 16 March 1960, in Paris. It also premiered in July 1961 in the UK and 7 February 1961 in the Fine Arts Theater, New York.

Further, Lesage says that it was filmed 17 August to 15 September 1959. --Jeremy Butler 14:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of Michel's dying words

The article at present says this:

With his last breath, he calls death "disgusting", but the police tell Patricia that he called her "disgusting".

Is this an accurate translation? My DVD's subtitles read

MICHEL: It's a real scumbag.

POLICEMAN (to Patricia): He said you're a real scumbag.

Nothing about specifically insulting death. This is certainly a rather odd translation, but which is more accurate? Cop 633 20:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

After reading this forum discussion, I have decided to rewrite it thus: With his last breath, Michel whispers "It's disgusting", but the policeman tells Patricia that he told her "you're disgusting". This seems more accurate. Cop 633 18:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

i see someone has copied and pasted some of my research re: the mistranslation from the imdb FAQ section for this film: imdb Breathless FAQ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.229.162.19 (talk) 08:58, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

considering someone took my original study of the end translations of Breathless from the imdb FAQ's, i too the opportunity to do a complete overhaul of my work and updated the section extensively. i think some note may be in line about the significance of the single most iconic image of the film: Particia's long gaze into the camera. I may take some time to write something brief up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chimpcadet (talk • contribs) 11:24, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

This is really great work. Very helpful. Cop 663 15:13, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Cop. You and Jeremy did a nice job editing. In particular, Cop, I liked this: "(which can either be an adjective, "disgusting", or a noun, "disgusting thing" (rendered as 'bitch' by Andrews)"-- as it is more accurate. I also went through and fixed a couple of minor things myself. I'd like to note here that the author of the book that i reference IS in fact named Dudley Andrew and not Andrews. The only thing i dont like about the newest edit is how the numbers were taken away from the last paragraph when discussing the difficulties in translating the scene. I thought it was more effective WITH the numbers. What do you guys think?--Chimpcadet 20:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, someone put a citation needed tag at the end of the last paragraph. That comment was based on the debate that has gone on at the imdb forum for this film for the past couple of years and not based on anything academic that can be traditionally referenced. So if that makes it any less relevant, it may be removable. opinions on that?--Chimpcadet 20:43, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we need to refer to outside debates, to be honest. The section is useful, regardless of whether IMDB users have been confused or not. It can simply note that some translations are confusing, and then explain what the lines actually mean, without the need to justify its existence, I think. In an ideal world, someone will write a longer synopsis, and this section can simply appear at the end of it. Cop 663 22:35, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I think youre right-- no need to justify it. Although i do think it is important enough for it to be in its own section, and also peripheral enough to be separate from the synopsis.--71.109.241.42 00:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

By the way, would Michel's line sound ambiguous to a French speaker too? If so, you'd think there would have been debate in France too (although the published screenplay would have answered the question). Hmm. Cop 663 22:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

You know, im not sure... and that's a good question. Obviously it is not a straightforward translation, otherwise they would all be the same, or very close. For the first point of my study, the déguelasse part, English speakers are at the mercy of the interpreter as this is the part of the dialogue that is open to more subjective interpretation. The C'est/T'es part is a problem that French speakers have encountered, but English speakers are also able to judge for themselves if they just give a listen. Of course, non-French speakers are at a disadvantage because they dont have an ear for French. Myself, Im not sure if he says one or the other, but I lean towards C'est. Along those lines, I think the major issue is whether he is condemning Patricia or the world for his death. But because we only have transcriptions (and not an original screenplay) we will really never know unless someone who was present during dubbing clears it up.--71.109.241.42 00:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

So the script in Andrew's book is a transcript, rather than Godard's work? Interesting. That needs mentioning. Cop 663 15:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I think i had originally written that it was a transcription... but I think someone deleted it. But i may be wrong; I cant remember.--Chimpcadet 19:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Importance

The film was rated "low" on the importance scale, which is ridiculous. I changed it to "high."--YellowTapedR 08:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DVD Releases

I think it is significant to note that the new criterion collection release was ranked as #94 on Amazon's Essential 100 DVD's. If you take a look at the list, it is a pretty exclusive list of films with high quality DVD editions and i dont see listing the honor as excess advertising. Plus, i think it was on DVD beaver that one reviewer suggested it as a candidate for DVD release of the year. As the year progresses, Im willing to bet it will pick up a few other awards or distinctions.--Chimpcadet 19:18, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but give it time. Amazon are trying to promote the DVDs in order to sell them, so their list is not so noteworthy. Film magazines (and DVD Beaver) are more neutral and so more noteworthy. Cop 663 01:46, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deguelasse

I have replaced Déguelasse by Dégueulasse which seems to me the proper spelling. Dégueuler in French is a colloquial verb which means to puke. Hektor (talk) 13:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:A souffle.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)