Talk:Breakdance

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Contents

[edit] NPOV

Hey, just reading and I noticed in the "dance techniques" section, it says that bboying borrows "many" moves from gymnastics. There's only like two moves, flares and planche. I just think it that should be corrected because it takes from the originality that bboying has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bboy1987 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

HOW DOES ONE SUBMIT ARTICLES to this subject?? I have archival history to put up one here: FLiers of Kool Hercs & Afrika Bombaataa's parties circa '1974. Is one person regulating this page or a group? drewlooner@gmail.com Bboy Looner Serpent (talk) 00:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Just curious, the NPOV tag is on this page but I don't see any disputes discussed here. Can someone fill me in?

REEDIT: Looks like this refers to the changes by TheChameleon explained above. Please be patient as I'm still learning my way around Wikis and just surfed over here out of curiosity.  :-) Isn't there a way to request peer review without using the POV tag? I thought I saw that somewhere....

PhilipR 16:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, good idea... Guess I'm a bigger beginner than you PhilipR... Put it to peer review please, I can't right now. Thechamelon 20:00, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Guys, see Wikipedia:Peer_review. I'm removing the NPOV tag and following the guidelines for Peer review. I don't what you want to clean up though, so I'll let you submit the request (click the "a request has been made" link up top). --Covracer http://home.earthlink.net/~covracer 11:46, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

I'm dubious about the neutrality of the couple sentences regarding 'The Freshest Kids: A History of the B-Boy.' Is it objective to say that this film presents the true perspective and accurate history? --SoylentBlue 04:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

  • The Freshest Kids is one of the best documentaries on the history of B-boying and simultaneously documents the origin of Hip Hop Culture itself. It interviews many originators who were there. Although it is a very important documentary and the first "in depth" look into the history of Breaking, it is, however, VERY Rocksteady-ish, meaning heavily influenced by Crazy Legs and other members. There is controversy over where the biases are, but the general truth is there. (it is on the individual to research further, so this is why research sites like wikipedia must be accurate and detailed, taking accounts from all perspectives.

There is a history before Rocksteady. check: http://www.bboyworld.com/forum/breaking-discussion/64274-new-screen-name-clearing-air-me-mzk.html Bboy Looner Serpent (talk) 10:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Bold text== History ==

There are so many histories on the "beginning" of breakdance. Instead of many people writing their own understanding, maybe we should list the facts (meaning evidence)? Some argue whether breakdance is based on other artforms or developed on its own. (I'm not sure of anything anymore....:) Instead of interpret quotes and info from 3rd parties, we should maybe quote directly from the famous b-boys and books? Then readers can interpret themselves. Just a thought... Thechamelon 09:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)


Hi! The story about the RockSteady Crew being formed by a brazilian capoeira mestre is false. I think its not respectful for them to give wrong information about their origins. Quote: "THE CREATION OF THE ROCK STEADY CREW Written by Joe-Joe, The Original B.Boy, Rock Steady Crew '77


Founded in 1977, the crew's original name was the "Untouchable Four B.Boys". It consisted of four members, Joe-Joe, Easy-Mike, Jimmy-Dee, and P.Body 170th. However, the demands of recruits enabled them to reconsider and look past the four-member title of restricted membership. As a result, a meeting was held in Echo Place, Bronx, NY, at the residence of Jamie White [AKA Jimmy-Dee]. It was there that the ROCK STEADY name was born despite the initial idea of creating an extra crew to extend the "Untouchable Four B.Boys". "

This is an excerpt from the history of the Rocksteady Crew. Clearly we see no Capoeira mestre there, just some NYC kids.

You can find the RSC history at Mr Wiggles (one of RSC members, he is also in the Electric Bogaloo and was in the Magnificent Force back in the days, he was there when breakin and popping were being born so I think his word has got credibility) homepage http://www.mrwiggles.biz/hip_hop_timeline.htm

Also I find incorrect the many references to Capoeira that are included in the history of B.boyin´. Quoting again Mr Wiggles from http://www.mrwiggles.biz/misconceptions_of_hip_hop.htm : "-BBOYING WAS TAUGHT TO A GROUP OF YOUNG LATINOS BY A CAPOERA MAESTRO IN THE 70'S (CAPOEIRA IS A FORM OF MARTIAL ARTS, CREATED BY AFRICAN SLAVES AND DISGUISED AS A DANCE IN BRAZIL)." WHILE I DO AGREE THAT BBOYIN WAS INDIRECTLY INSPIRED BY THIS AFRICAN ART FORM. AND BBOYING DEFINITELY HAS ITS ROOTS IN AFRICAN DANCE. BUT I HAVEN'T MET A LATIN BBOY FROM BACK IN THE DAYS THAT CAN EVEN PRONOUNCE THE WORD CAPOEIRA. (MAN I CAN'T EVEN SPELL IT) THE STORY THAT BEST SIZES THIS ARGUMENT UP WAS A QUESTION POSED TO TWO OF OUR FOUR FATHERS OF BBOYIN "THE NIGGA TWINS", WHEN ASKED WHY DON'T YOU GUYS ( THE NIGGA TWINS ) GIVE CREDIT TO CAPOEIRA??? AND THERE REPLY WAS. I NEVER MET THIS GUY CAPOEIRA THAT YOUR TALKIN ABOUT BUT IF YOU BRING HIM TO ME ILL SEE IF I RECOGNIZE HIM. "

Having learnt both Capoeira and Breakin (although I´m into Breakin´ now, only), I can tell you that the apparent similitudes between both aren´t that great. Sure, both are played or danced in a circle. That´s logical, since when you´re breakin´, people are watching you, and the logical shape the people will form is a circle, since it allows most people to watch who is dancing. Music from Capoeira and Breakin´ have nothing in common. Headspins, Peu di Mao/90´s and some other of the few analogous moves between both aren´t done in the same way. In breakin´ the emphasis is put on doing the move the longest time, most difficult and flashiest way possible. This is the basis for the continual developing of breakin´, since everyone is striving to find new ways to do moves or whole new moves (which is more difficult). Instead capoeira has its set of moves, and you can´t move further from there. Take for instance an invert. Some b.boys now are doing inverts with their legs on lotus position because its a lot more difficult and amazing than a regular invert. In Capoeira you can´t really make up your own Invert! You must stick with the regular invert because that´s what a capoeira invert should look like. I hope you find my point. In fact I find that breakin´ has more moves similar to those of Kung Fu than to Capoeira. Based on these reasons I´m deleting the references to Capoeira and Mestre Jelon Vieira, since Breakin´ developed on its own from a number of influences, of which capoeira wasn´t that important, and its association with it (capoeira) is damaging the reputation of B.boyin Old Schoolers, making them look like simple imitators, when they created the most important urban dance style of the XX century. If someone doesn´t agree with this, please tell me why. Also state if you´re a Capoeirista or B.boy please. Violenciafriki 2:26 21 July 2005

Breaking and Capoeira are not one and the same, breaking is simply based off Capoeira. Of course break moves are constantly changing and being improved upon, it's the nature of the medium. Just as keeping the original moves of Capoeira the same as they were years ago is the standard of Martial Arts. Compare the showings of each form: A breaker who only did the original Capoeira moves would be crushed in a battle, the same as a Capoeira artist would be given low marks if he did not adhere to his specific movement in a judged competition. Each art form has evolved and taken on it's own form, especially breaking since dance is encouraged to improve upon itself constantly, but it's in the basic that the comparisons can be made. The basic toprock and the basic stance of Capoeira are too similar to ignore. Certain moves like hollowbacks and L kicks (I'm not sure of the Capoeira names) show up in both art forms. It doesn't matter if how the move is performed is different, since the aim of the movement is completely different. HeavenlySteps 19:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Nice of you explaining it. I am not a master of b-boy history, just thaught it would be more wikipedic not to edit big sections without an explanation. I have heard and seen *many* explanations and histories on the subject, but you argue well.. :) From now on, I hope everyone editing will have references supporting their view... Thechamelon 10:45, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

  • B-BOYING WAS NOT BORN FROM CAPOERIA, NOR WAS IT BASED ON CAPOERIA. We just borrowed moves from it just like we borrowed moves from Kung Fu, Gymnastics, Soul Train, and James Brown. (personally I watched tha Legendary Beat Street's ROXY Battle a thousand times)!!! In the Second coming of its popularity, Breakers attempted to learn Capoeria in order to improve their breaking because they saw it was similar and thought it would make them better dancers. What Bboy from the 90's hasn't seen "Only The Strong?!?!" -And we would watch it to steal moves from NOT for the sake of learning Capoeria. LAter it was obvious to Bboys: who was breaking and who was doing capoeria. (We would klown you for doing capoeria in our cypher). Capoeria CAN be considered a definite influence to Breaking, however Breaking existed independently.
  • Also early ROCKSTEADY 7 GEMS videos documented a tour they went on that included Brazil (circa 93-95???). WHile they were there they obviously clicked with the capoeristas. Getting paid to Bboy in a new land, with exotic people, DIving off cliffs into clear blue waters, Bboying (and possibly som herbals??)>> may have caused them to under go a deep spiritual connection with Brazil, and hence, Capoeria, and since Rocksteady was such a massive influence on the spread and popularization of this CUlture, It would be reasonable to say Capoeria had an influence on B-boying. (7 Gems video:http://www.cypherstyles.com/product_description.asp?prodId=581&Pn=7-Gems-Volume-
  • Note: There IS a history before RSC, (Check Zulu Nation) but seriously: Crazy Legs is the one who landed the gig for FLASH DANCE>>>THE MOVIE THAT INTRODUCED BREAKDANCE TO THE WORLD!! :TO America oustside of NY :and TO Europe as well. 1983. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085549/)
  • Here in America, breaking never really went away, per say >>> it went a different route >>> it turned into Hip Hop>>>dances like the Roger Rabbit, Running man, Kid n Play and Hip Hop here became Afro-Centric while in Europe They kept it Old School Flavor.http://www.battleoftheyear.de/.
  • Common sense broke down the phases of hip hop in his early rhyme:"I USED TO LOVE H.E.R.," where he spoke of HipHop as if she was a girl growing up. (She was an American girl not a European girl, doe, ha,ha, that was a joke)
  • No offense to capoeristas, I respect the art. Some very good friends, Circle of Fire: Free, Dufon (Orb), Seth, Bob (The Balance), Roberto members seriously studied Capoeria back in the days. Seth currently has a school there. Dufon and Orb currently do House/B-boying now.

Bboy Looner Serpent (talk) 10:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)



Yeah, sorry for the first time when I deleted a section without explanation... i´m newbie at wikipedia so I didn´t know about the talk page... :) Violenciafriki 01:52, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

The concept that breaking emanated from the suburbs isn't very accurate, right? Worn down urban areas like Bronx in the 70s weren't suburbs by any definition. What to write instead? Arru 19:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

  • inner city kids


Hey all; I'm currently reading P.T. Barnum's autobiography Struggles and Triumphs (1872 edition) in which he refers to the dancing part of a negro song-and-dance routine as the "break down"--is there any linguistic or stylistic connection here? acdavis 18:50, 7 August 2006

B-Boy firstly started out in the early 1970's, it then became more popular ten years later, it first appeared on public on an advertisement, it then grew into a more popular form of dancing. It then grew into a semi sport dance because of the usage of many gymnastic moves which is usually known as Power Moves.

You can't tell me the opening statement "It is normally danced to funk or hip hop music, often remixed to prolong the breaks, and is arguably the best known of all hip hop dance styles." Is non point of view! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.93.65.51 (talk) 02:38, August 27, 2007 (UTC)


Hello, first of all i'd like to state that Im a capoeirista and only follow the bboying culture of my city as a hobby. With that off the way I'd just like to share my opinion with you guys. I know that breaking didnt come from capoeira as it took form in the 70's. Capoeira was barely known nation-wide in brazil by then. What I do know is that some capoeiristas started migrating to USA in that same decade, and some of them being african-brazilian most surely bonded with the african-american communities. If you take this into account, then it wouldnt be so strange that a capoeirista or two had something to do with the inception of breaking as we can see some basic freezes and footwork are exactly the same as in capoeira, such as 3 step, zulu spin, helicopter, etc. Obviously you may think "they dont look the same" and that might be because in capoeira you have another guy infront of you trying to kick your teeth out. I watch and respect breakdancing art form as something completely different than capoeira, but I strongly believe that a couple of brazilians were hanging out with the original crews in NY back in the 70's.

By the way, someone mentioned that capoeira moves where strict and one could not improvise new moves. You couldnt be more wrong. That's the common conception people have from watching Contemporary Capoeira, which is different from capoeira angola and capoeira regional. I've been teaching capoeira for 3 years now and I always pass down the message my teacher told me...You have to learn the basic so you can develop your own capoeira. Back in time when Capoeira regional was created, that was the whole point. mestre Bimba was displeased because brazilians were practicing oriental martial arts, so he decided brazil should have it's own national martial art and formed capoeira regional. When the roots of capoeira is to be original, you can hardly say that a real capoeira is restrained by strict moves, we have to improvise, not even the basic move Ginga should look the same in 2 persons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.164.34.16 (talk) 20:20, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

I think it would be worth adding a bit to the Controversy section about the definition of the dance. It states in the article that West Coast styles can be more abstract and housey (although this is a bit out of date as it's not just the West Coast of the US that does this these days) but there is no addition of the controversy that these styles create for more foundational bboys. Perhaps something along the lines of:

There is also controversy about the definition of the dance. Break dancers that use the more classical version of the dance occasionally state that more abstract styles are "not bboying" which leads to the great debate about what break dancing actually is. There are two sides to this argument. One that states that break dancing should only include variations and continuations of the dance steps that have previously been defined whereas others see the dance form as a "do what you like" dance, meaning that anything goes even blending break dancing with other dance forms such as contemporary. This issue is especially relevant when considered alongside judging at break dancing events. If the outcome of the battle is not immediately apparent by differences in skill and technique the result decided by the judges tends to almost always be contentious to the audience and participants.

(btw: i've used the term break dancing to be consistent with the article, I'd usually state: bboying) Icky Media (talk) 20:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Breakdance teamy

The reference to Galvanize should be removed. The video does not have any breaking in it of any kind. This is a video about 3 boys sneaking off to a Krump battle which is a totally diffrent dance Supersaiyanpr24 (talk) 16:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC) supersaiyanpr24

[edit] Reference & External Links

I think it is a little problematic getting references becasue there are no books for BBoying, and Websites are mostly forums. Does anyone know any reliable sites for information on BBoying that are not forums? And for external links, does it break the rules if we put forums like bboy.org, www.bboyworld.com, www.bboyzone.com for External Links? Thank you all in advance. Pseudoserpent (talk) 22:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe a valuable and accurate reference would be the film "The Freshest Kids." It is a critically acclaimed documentary that properly portrays Hip Hop and the specific individual element of Bboying. There are many primary sources in the film itself, namely founders of the dance and the people in the community growing up with the dance as it was created.

Ehung14 (talk) 17:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Good Idea, Ehug14! I watched it before, and I am a BBoy myselve. Could you please add some references in the main section of the acrticle please? Thanks if you can do it, and if not, thanks for the idea! :] Pseudoserpent (talk) 08:21, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


Totally unrelated or maybe partially related. I was wondering if it is allowed to have links to YouTube? I'm asking this because I noticed there are videos of the Drifterz Canon in D commercial on YouTube but instead there's a link to Pachelbel's Canon in D wiki page. If linking to youtube is allowed, here's the link http://youtube.com/watch?v=CvkyjR4yk60 if not, then i guess this is irrelevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paro727 (talk • contribs) 09:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Does anyone know any good pictures that are not freezes (and do not break any copyright laws by using it on WP)? In my opinion, there are too many pictures of freezes. And the 1 handed handstand is more related to circus...should we change it? BTW: Picture Ideas: Power moves (Mills, Flares, 2000's, etc), Footwork (6 step, Helicopters (Coffee Grinders, 1 Step)), or Toprocking? There is neraly no reaference to Toprocking, wich is one of the most important parts of a set, because it displays the BBoys (or BGirls) style. Thanks in advance. Pseudoserpent (talk) 08:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merging with "Bboy"

I propose that we stop encouraging the use of the term "Breakdance" by merging the two articles (Breakdance and Bboy) together under the title "Bboy". Anybody well versed in Hip Hop culture can attest to the fact that "Breakdance" is a term grossly misused by the media when in fact, the dance is called Bboying or breaking. Since so many people nowadays utilize Wikipedia as an authoritative source of information, this change must be made so that the general populace does not continue to believe the facade of breakdancing. Replace Breakdance with Bboying and replace breakdancer with Bboy; merge the articles together.

Ehung14 (talk) 17:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with that, and when people search up 'go' that it forards the 'breakdance' request to the BBoying page. I saw this was done in other articles, and it would be really effective for this page. Sadly, I do not have that much experience with WP... I see if I can find out how to do that, and will if enough people agree with it. Thanks, Ehung14! I see what I can do! :] Pseudoserpent (talk) 04:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
If no one opposes in the next 5 days, I'll get started (and bear in mind if you oppose to explain why. Thank you! ) Pseudoserpent (talk) 06:56, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Done! :) Pseudoserpent (talk) 21:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Hold on here. You didn't "merge" the articles - you replaced the original b-boy article with the material from the original breakdance article and redirected it. I oppose this because this is not a merge - it's not what you said you were doing. If you want to merge, then merge. If you want to change article names by redirecting, that's a different story. Based on your contribution history, you seem intent on replacing the term "breakdance" with "b-boy" across wikipedia. Respectfully, I request that you gain consensus before proceeding with such a widespread change. Remember that wikipedia is based on fact, not truth, and therefore what the media says is important (no matter how we all may feel about that). --SesameballTalk 19:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Sesamball, as I have explained in the B-Boy article (the one it redirects too), I am Working on merging. The merge will take a while, but still (since the article is still the same, but under a diffrent name) why shouldn't we forward it. I'm back i around six hours. Got school. :/ Pseudoserpent (talk) 19:20, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia IS based on fact. The fact of the matter is that the dance is NOT called breakdancing but rather, bboying. The only reason we still know it as "breakdancing" is because that's what people have continually to falsely perpetuate. This is an opportunity to remedy that. Ehung14 (talk) 21:10, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Sounds great, I'm looking forward to it.

Ehung14 (talk) 03:56, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry that it took so long. Will be done in the next 24 hours! ;) Pseudoserpent (talk) 10:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] About the Video Game References subsection...

Shouldn't it be worth noting that One of Sonic the Hedgehog's Taunts in Super Smash Bros. Brawl has him Breakdancing and saying "Come On, Step it up!"? I mean, Since you guys mentioned that some of the characters smash moves resembles break dancing, I thought this was worth noting.

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~

Go ahead, make the change. And please sign your post with four ~ Pseudoserpent (talk) 00:15, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I'd like to edit it myself, but I can't since they disabled the edit page option on the Main article.

Also, about signing with four ~, I thought I did [putting my name between two sets of ~~ [e.g.: ~~(InsertNameHere)~~]]. I mean, isn't that what I'm supposed to do?

~~Weedle_McHairybug~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.185.55 (talk) 00:59, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

No, don't write anything in beetween. Just post four ~ because it will do it automaticly... ;)
BTW, you should make an account (it will display the username account. If you don't have one, it uses the computers IP address, which can be used against you... ;/ Pseudoserpent (talk) 05:51, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merger proposal

I believe that this page should be merged with the B-boy page because they are closely related.The b-boy page also has valuable information, which would improve this article alot. Please help with the merge! :) BTW, after the merge is completed, I see if I can get consensus to move this article to the B-boying page. And if possible, please add reference to this article. Thank you! :) Pseudoserpent (talk) 04:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Somebody at Wikipedia thinks that "b-boy" should be merged into "breakdance". At least that's what the link alludes to in the "breakdance" topic page. This is false, "breakdance" should be merged into "b-boy". When somebody types "breakdance" into the search bar, they should be redirected to the "b-boy" page.Ehung14 (talk) 21:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I did the merge proposal, since the two articles are pretty much the same. See my talk page. Oh, and you are right with the articles (that it should be published under B-boy) but since this is a bigger article, it is easier to merge B-boy into this one. And once the merge is completed, I will do my best to get consensus (approval) to move this article to the B-boying page. Please help me, Ehung14! (Because I believe this is wrong too. But Sesamball is right with what he says, so let's do the merge first.) :-) Pseudoserpent (talk) 02:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support because these pages describe much of the same thing. The battles section, for example, is exactly the same. In addition, the B-boy page contains few citations or sources. --DerRichter (talk) 08:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Of course I support a merge of the information in the body of the "b-boy" article into Breakdance. Having two articles about the same thing makes no sense. The article cannot then be renamed B-Boy, however. It would more correctly be called B-boying, but that is awkward. Another complication is that b-boy had for many years a wider application than just the dance element, as the lead of the b-boy article spells out.

So: convert the B-boy article to a stub, leaving just the lead at that page. Merge the body, all the info regarding dance, to this page. Write in the first sentence of the lead, "Breakdance, or more correctly, breaking or b-boying,[α] is ... ".

α. ^  [Whatever the sources say. Something about breakdance being an outdated media-created term, and breaking and b-boying being the both original terms and the terms preferred by practitioners today, I gather.] (B'Boy, I.R. Achey Breaky Heart, New York: Toprock Inc., 2004. (p. 3292))
86.44.30.169 (talk) 03:18, 20 April 2008 (UTC)