Talk:Breach of the Gaza-Egypt border (2008)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Breach of the Gaza-Egypt border (2008) is part of WikiProject Palestine - a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative, balanced articles related to Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page where you can add your name to the list of members and contribute to the discussion. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject Palestine articles.
NB: Assessment ratings and other indicators given below are used by the Project in prioritizing and managing its workload.
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the Project's quality scale.
Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the Project's importance scale.
After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses.
Egypt Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Egypt, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles on Egypt on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the Project's importance scale.
After rating the article, please provide a short summary on the article's ratings summary page to explain your ratings and/or identify the strengths and weaknesses.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

Wikipedians in Egypt may be able to help!
The Free Image Search Tool (FIST) may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Breach of the Gaza-Egypt border (2008) article.
Article policies

Contents

[edit] Nothing on Sderot, facebook?

The current crisis is the result of the continued and continuing bombardment of Sderot and other Israeli communities with Kassams and mortars. Though the Kassams are crude, they are also deadly: majority of Israeli civilian casualties last year from were in and around Sderot.

However, nobody would know this from the article. Why has wikipedia held back so basic and vital a fact? This is probably an honest case of negligence, but, given the topic, I think political bias is also a possibility. Please put my mind at ease and include information on Sderot like you should have originally! 141.166.154.61 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:29, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

why don't you include such information if you feel it relevant? SJMNY (talk) 06:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added this as an inline q.v. as perhaps the most notable target of the attacks. -- Kendrick7talk 17:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article Name vs Article content

The artile lead is about the border crossing. The article name is a crisis. They are not one in the same. Discuss --mitrebox (talk) 00:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Do we really need a Gaza Crisis 2008 article? Is there anything different from last years Gaza Crisis? Right now the border crossing is just a footnote to any Gaza article. It only becomes notable on its own if Hamas, Egypt or Israel takes drasitic action to close or keep open the border. Since Wikipedia is not a crystal ball there is no real purpose for this article. --mitrebox (talk) 00:02, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we need a separate article. Last year nobody passed through the border illegally, but I'm not certain about the name. I want to make an article about what has happened in January 2008, but I don't insist on the name. Can you suggest a better name.--Seyyed(t-c) 04:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Title should probably be changed to 2008 Gaza-Egypt border crossings or some such as that is the article topic not the longstanding and ongoing humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Eluchil404 (talk) 05:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

The Spanish version of this article is at es:Éxodo palestino de 2008, i.e. 2008 Palestinian Exodus, which might stimulate ideas for an alternate name. Eluchil404 (talk) 07:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I checked google news and found these results:

I think "siege of Gaza" is a better title which include broader story and "Palestinian Exodus" or "border crossings" can be a section of it. I should remind that there is another article with the same name: Siege of Gaza but it relates to Alexander the Great.--Seyyed(t-c) 12:29, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

To my name, the 2008 Gaza Crisis best encompasses the current situation. Strictly speaking, Israel hasn't so much besieged Gaza and simply halted the supplies it usually sent to it. And I do think the current situation is something new for Gaza, Israel, and Egypt. 141.166.154.61 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see anything special about this article that can't be summed up in one paragraph of the Palestine-Israeli conflict article. --mitrebox (talk) 14:51, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
To me this name seems vague, even biased. What was happening in Gaza was a crisis, and doubly so when civilians start running out of food. But civilians escaping through a hole in the wall somebody put up around them in order to go to the grocery store is not a crisis in any meaningful sense of the term, though some of the associated events might turn out to be. 70.15.116.59 (talk) 16:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

How about Breach of the Gaza-Egypt border?--Jiang (talk) 03:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Good idea - but haven't there been others in other years? I'm wondering if a 2008 is needed. 70.15.116.59 (talk) 06:36, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Right of return

The Palestinian right of return has generally been denied by the Israelis. Do these border crossers face the risk of not being able to go back to Gaza? 70.15.116.59 (talk) 16:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

probably not. Israel would have to enter Egypt or occupy Gaza to rebuild the wall, both seem unlikely. Plus the Egyptians won't let the Palestinians stay. For all the talk of Arab brotherhood no one really likes the Palestinians. Jordan and Egypt both occupied Palestine prior to the 1967 war. Then Jordan kicked all the pals out and into the West Bank. Egypt has its own problems with radicals and doesn't need another anti-Israel movement destabilizing the nation. --mitrebox (talk) 19:32, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need correct information

The first section of the article states that borders were shut down back in September of '07, while the timeline section states it occures on January 17th. Which of these is the correct date? Shint (talk) 18:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It is actually since September, I'm looking for a ref. -- Kendrick7talk 15:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
My source says October. We were close. :) -- Kendrick7talk 15:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

Does anyone else think the introduction is really inaccurate?? The crisis happened because of the blockade and not because of the wall breach. The breach took place as a direct consequence of the blockade. The breach was not the cause of the crisis, rather the end of the crisis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.178.224.162 (talk) 22:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It was confusing. Should be cleared up now. -- Kendrick7talk 15:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. REMcrazy (talk) 16:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing title

Shouldn't this article about the breach be integrated into another one about "2008 Israel blockade against Gaza" like in the spanish article? (Israeli block against Gaza, 2008)--Knadaves (talk) 19:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

That might be missing the bigger picture. If the breach becomes long term, it could effectively give Egypt defacto control over the territory (heh, I first typed that "terrority"), as they had before the Six Day War. It's hard to know, as a {{current event}}, how this will play out. I'd rather wait for now per WP:TIND. -- Kendrick7talk 19:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
A year should definitely be added.Herunar (talk) 18:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] guns?

the article cited as footnote one gives no reference for the weapon-smuggling that this article gives as one of the reasons that people went into egypt from gaza... while i have no doubt that hamas would take the opportunity to bring in more arms it should really be sourced if the article is going to say it. SJMNY (talk) 06:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. -- Kendrick7talk 12:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] q.v.

Call me dumb, but what is "q.v."? If it means "for which, see", can we just use the more standard "see also"? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 13:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what WP:STYLE says, but based on my childhood Funk & Wagnells I'd say "q.v." is standard for an encyclopedia. -- Kendrick7talk 20:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)