Talk:Brain zaps

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[edit] Thanks To All

Wanted to thank every one of you whom have contributed to this article. Yes, this phenomenon may not have an "official clinical name" as of yet but, when it finally does, you'll read the most accurate information on it right here. — Badgerbear (talk) 11:53, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Treatment Section

I removed the treatment section of the article and pasted it here on the Talk page instead. It is (as it admits) hypothetical, anecdotal, and completely baseless. For example, the second paragraph absurdly implies that metabolized serotonin can cross the blood-brain barrier and enter the brain.

It seems very irresponsible to make dubious suggestions about treating a mental condition in a Wikipedia article.

Content like this shouldn't be in an encyclopedic article. I'm retaining it here so, if in fact it can be referenced and shown to be more than just BS, we can put it back somehow. --Amohren 04:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsorted Chatter

I wonder if it should be mentioned that sometimes zaps can be the last symptom left over from a successful SSRI withdrawal? 71.110.172.13 06:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

--- The effect is serotonergic in nature, which explains MDMA. It does not appear to have been reported with the tricyclics, however. It is also linked to half-life, as a long half-life gives the CNS more time to readjust itself. SNRIs are somewhat worse than SSRIs. Administering another SSRI with a longer half-life alleviates the symptoms; using Lexapro seems advisable, as it has a 30 hour half-life, and is available in a liquid form that can be titrated more easily. Benzodiazepines also alleviate the problem, and can be used if the patient cannot tolerate a regular withdrawal. Note that administering an SSRI to counter this when it is caused my an MAOI is extremely unadvisable and potentially lethal. Zuiram 10:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Prozac (fluoxetine) also has a long half-life and has be used to wean patients off of shorter half-life SSRIs. Depending on how long it is used the half-life of Prozac can range from 24 hours (one dose) to 144 hours (chronic use). It is also available in a liquid form. Even so, Prozac is still an SSRI and can present similar symptoms during withdrawal. But these are generally reported to be milder because it gives the brain a little more time to adapt to being SSRI-free.

[edit] Other medications

Does anybody know if zaps are a known after effect of taking MDMA (ecstasy)? I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else but the symptoms seem very similar to those detailed here.

^Yes, brain shivers are reported after MDMA usage; this generally happens after periods of frequent use. Debollweevil 19:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC) I get this along with Exploding head syndrome if I take MDMA now, now I know sort of what it is, that it isn't just me, and that it isn't my brain disintegrating. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.67.64 (talk) 23:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bad Link

I have removed the following link, because it's 404 now.

Just found what appears to be the proper info, and replaced the link. --Overand 23:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Withdrawal vs Discontinuation

There is a very confusing distinction between withdrawal and discontinuation symptoms - this article would probably best be worded using the latter. It would certainly change the tone, however I think that most of the literature indicates that while these symptoms are unpleasant, they don't also include a serious lust for the drug that has been discontinued. I'm not interested in making these modificiations nor being the target of the firestorm that would ensue- so, I'd just like to start a dialog with anyone else interested/watching this article. --Overand 23:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The term "withdrawal" has been used extensively in the literature, and the term "discontinuation syndrome" is a reframing to avoid the (erronous) assumption made by laypersons that "withdrawal" implies addiction. Zuiram 10:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Firestorm? No, we're all nice folk here. Just trying to provide information in a factual manner.
"Discontinuation syndrome" is a "soft" and "friendlier" term now used extensively by the pharmaceutical industry to avoid the negative connotations associated with the term "withdrawal." However, in the context of patients needing another dose of the drug in order to avoid unpleasant symptoms (not related to their original condition), the two terms are interchangable. Withdrawal being more scientifically accurate. "Illicit drugs of abuse" are typically branded as having a high potential for "withdrawal". Whereas pharmaceutical drugs, many of which carry the same withdrawal profiles as illicit drugs, are labled as "discontinuation" symptoms. Ask most patients whom have missed several consecutive days of their SSRI or SNRI and "serious lust" will, most likely, be exactly their demeanor. The symptoms being that unpleasant, intollerable and debilitating. The patient's only immediate recourse being to once again resume taking the drug to alleviate these symptoms. Serotonergic antidepressants overstimulate the receptors (5-HT specific) in the neuronal synaptic cleft causing a phenomenon known as Downregulation. These neurons may become permanently altered over time to be less and less sensitive due to this overstimulation. The brain knows its baseline chemistry and will fight the drug by reducing its number of receptors accordingly. Thereby leaving the patient dependent on continuing the drug. If the patient attempts to discontinue said drug, the brain will suddenly be "starved" for serotonin because it would be attempting to once again function autonomously yet with far fewer receptors than before the drug was initiated. — Badgerbear 04:49, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Increasing or decreasing frequency?

The article says: "As withdrawal time increases, so do the frequency of the shocks, before they wane completely." Is that supposed to mean that the period between the shocks increases before the shocks disappear completely? If so, the frequency decreases, not increases. Teemu Leisti 14:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

No, the shocks increase in frequency (and strength) the longer the patient is off the meds. At first it may be a few times per day, increasing to a few times per hour, then per minute, until eventually they start to decrease in strength and go away (almost) completely 67.37.110.160 14:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] It's true

i don't care for the term "Brain zaps" much... it's pretty frightening to me that this isn't well known enough to have an official name yet. my doctor definitely wasn't familiar with what i was talking about... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.131.201.37 (talk) 07:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, I second it's a bad name, but it is fairly descriptive for people who never experienced them. I personally found the "zaps" amusing at first, but after that it get's annoying that you have to turn slooowly not to be "shocked". I got "shocked" roughly every ten minutes and then the "amusing" part somehow got lost in the mail. Zero2ninE (talk) 12:26, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Buspirone

I know from personal experience that Buspirone (Buspar) can also cause "brain zaps." For me, the side-effect occurred while taking the medication, not from withdrawal. From the Buspirone article under side-effects:

Often (>1%) : drowsiness, insomnia, concentration disorders, confusion, depression, agitation, intestinal disorders, paresthesia, coordination disorders, tremors, disturbed vision, tinnitus, fatigue, weakness, Angina pectoris, sore throat, tachycardias, palpitations, dry mouth, pain in muscles and joints

Would anyone object to Buspar being added to the article?

Svadhisthana (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)